Ace Cafe crash
Discussion
CaptainMorgan said:
Yes, sometimes a driver will indicate and continue straight on so you should be prepared for that (pull out of a junction etc) but that isnt the situation here is it, so an irrelevant point.
So you're saying it's entirely reasonable and to be expected that if a driver is indicating they may well act in total contravention of their indicated intentions, and yet the idea that a driver can do the exact opposite and execute a manoeuvre without indicating ( so essentially the same thing....not complying with what's being advertised to others) is utterly inconceivable?How many times have you been punted up the road then?
SEVENCaptainMorgan said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Indicating IS optional, not compulsory. In any case the car had priority so there is no way the driver would take half the blame even if the scooter rider wasn't doing a wheelie.
I must be mistaken then, I was fairly sure when I took my 3 tests I've done so far I had to indicate during them all, along with a recent accident at work where it was deemed afterwards to be caused by lack of indication but I must be dreaming it all. 
If you don't know whether an indication will be useful to somebody or not, then you haven't done your obs properly, and you probably shouldn't do whatever it was that you were considering indicating about.
You don't indicate when there's nobody around just as you don't say hello when you walk into an empty room. It makes you look like you don't know what's going on.
CaptainMorgan said:
Indicators are just courtesy, is this a car forum or mumsnet? Good lord. Yeah chances are the bike wouldnt have stopped in time with the BMW indicating but at least the driver would then be innocent from blame, as oppose to taking half of it as he will now. Anyone who thinks even without seeing the scooter that was a situation where it would be ok not to use a signal obviously hasnt been to the Ace on a friday night when all the dick heads are about. It's hard enough to get out the car park, lat alone floating about without signalling.
Indicators arnt optional or just used when someone feels like it, they are there to show other drivers what you intend to do. Yes, sometimes a driver will indicate and continue straight on so you should be prepared for that (pull out of a junction etc) but that isnt the situation here is it, so an irrelevant point. The outcome more than likely will have been the same if BMW man had indicated but he didnt so it will be a factor in the accident/insurance claims.
king clue about this driving/riding lark.Now:
In the context, the scooter is approaching front wheel in the air towards a roundabout, and the BMW is turning right - even if scooter was looking in any forward direction, and he obviously wasn't, he would not see the indicator.
The BMW is clearly (to anyone but Scooter boy) already established on the roundabout, and in the UK, that means Scooter boy needs to give way.
The insurers (if they are even involved, I suspect neither party will want to go through insurers) will go total fault of Scooter, none on BMW. Plod would certainly book Scooter (quite rightly) for dangerous driving, and the BMW, possibly as they didn't actually even start it, for going for a doughnut.
MDahmen said:
Do you have to indicate in a roundabout in the UK? I am pretty sure where I learnt to drive, you indicated when leaving the roundabout not when using it as the direction of travel is round as opposed to straight, so the only time you have to indicate is if you leave the road and join a different one.
fk me, are you serious? CaptainMorgan said:
Indicators are just courtesy, is this a car forum or mumsnet? Good lord. Yeah chances are the bike wouldnt have stopped in time with the BMW indicating but at least the driver would then be innocent from blame, as oppose to taking half of it as he will now. Anyone who thinks even without seeing the scooter that was a situation where it would be ok not to use a signal obviously hasnt been to the Ace on a friday night when all the dick heads are about. It's hard enough to get out the car park, lat alone floating about without signalling.
Indicators arnt optional or just used when someone feels like it, they are there to show other drivers what you intend to do. Yes, sometimes a driver will indicate and continue straight on so you should be prepared for that (pull out of a junction etc) but that isnt the situation here is it, so an irrelevant point. The outcome more than likely will have been the same if BMW man had indicated but he didnt so it will be a factor in the accident/insurance claims.
I'm somewhat perturbed that people on a car forum need this explaining.
CaptainMorgan said:
Indicators are just courtesy, is this a car forum or mumsnet? Good lord. Yeah chances are the bike wouldnt have stopped in time with the BMW indicating but at least the driver would then be innocent from blame, as oppose to taking half of it as he will now. Anyone who thinks even without seeing the scooter that was a situation where it would be ok not to use a signal obviously hasnt been to the Ace on a friday night when all the dick heads are about. It's hard enough to get out the car park, lat alone floating about without signalling.
Indicators arnt optional or just used when someone feels like it, they are there to show other drivers what you intend to do. Yes, sometimes a driver will indicate and continue straight on so you should be prepared for that (pull out of a junction etc) but that isnt the situation here is it, so an irrelevant point. The outcome more than likely will have been the same if BMW man had indicated but he didnt so it will be a factor in the accident/insurance claims.
k does the lack of indicators mean the driver will take half the blame? What do you base that on?LoonR1 said:
CaptainMorgan said:
Indicators are just courtesy, is this a car forum or mumsnet? Good lord. Yeah chances are the bike wouldnt have stopped in time with the BMW indicating but at least the driver would then be innocent from blame, as oppose to taking half of it as he will now. Anyone who thinks even without seeing the scooter that was a situation where it would be ok not to use a signal obviously hasnt been to the Ace on a friday night when all the dick heads are about. It's hard enough to get out the car park, lat alone floating about without signalling.
Indicators arnt optional or just used when someone feels like it, they are there to show other drivers what you intend to do. Yes, sometimes a driver will indicate and continue straight on so you should be prepared for that (pull out of a junction etc) but that isnt the situation here is it, so an irrelevant point. The outcome more than likely will have been the same if BMW man had indicated but he didnt so it will be a factor in the accident/insurance claims.
k does the lack of indicators mean the driver will take half the blame? What do you base that on?VX Foxy said:
CBR JGWRR said:
3) 50/50, when one of the parties was on one wheel at a roundabout, is insane. 95 Scooter/5 BMW apportions too much blame on the BMW, let alone 50/50.
I wasn't talking about apportioning blame. I was talking about how the insurance co will deal with it.MDahmen said:
Do you have to indicate in a roundabout in the UK? I am pretty sure where I learnt to drive, you indicated when leaving the roundabout not when using it as the direction of travel is round as opposed to straight, so the only time you have to indicate is if you leave the road and join a different one.
Yes of course I fking do!VX Foxy said:
CBR JGWRR said:
3) 50/50, when one of the parties was on one wheel at a roundabout, is insane. 95 Scooter/5 BMW apportions too much blame on the BMW, let alone 50/50.
I wasn't talking about apportioning blame. I was talking about how the insurance co will deal with it.s3fella said:
MDahmen said:
Do you have to indicate in a roundabout in the UK? I am pretty sure where I learnt to drive, you indicated when leaving the roundabout not when using it as the direction of travel is round as opposed to straight, so the only time you have to indicate is if you leave the road and join a different one.
fk me, are you serious? i would place all fault at the biker in this case as presumption is the mother of all f
k ups especially if your on the back wheel meters from roundabout with traffic (what a tool) and pedestrians about.yes the car driver was wrong not to indicate but if the biker was behaving he wouldn't have been hit
s3fella said:
MDahmen said:
Do you have to indicate in a roundabout in the UK? I am pretty sure where I learnt to drive, you indicated when leaving the roundabout not when using it as the direction of travel is round as opposed to straight, so the only time you have to indicate is if you leave the road and join a different one.
fk me, are you serious? i would place all fault at the biker in this case as presumption is the mother of all f
k ups especially if your on the back wheel meters from roundabout with traffic (what a tool) and pedestrians about.yes the car driver was wrong not to indicate but if the biker was behaving he wouldn't have been hit
CBR JGWRR said:
Discopotatoes said:
as has been said, indicators must be used if there is someone the to indicate to.
Quick example.You arrive at a T-junction, wishing to turn right. Only one other vehicle around, coming from your right, their left indicator on.
Should you pull out?
Edited by Discopotatoes on Sunday 5th October 22:09
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