996 GT3, 997 GT3, Cayman GT4
Discussion
Porsche911R said:
nice vid showing how a 911 is being driven at 103% to get pole.
https://youtu.be/t10yzkVNgxc
Do you have a link to a 996 GT3 driving on 'pole' pace by any chance? The 2.0 SWB race car has got very different grip and power characteristics.https://youtu.be/t10yzkVNgxc
Cheers
Bert
LaSource said:
That is a cool post.
If you know, you know
it just confirmed nothing else matters but corner entry :-)If you know, you know
but:
a: no one has ever done a 100% perfect lap I would say Lewis did a 99.97% lap maybe, every one else did 99.91%, always time to find in a lap.
b: he did not change driving style , he drove to the limit of grip of the new geo.
c: corner entry got the pole as expected, threshold braking was the key skill to get it.
d: you do need to trail to apex In a GT4, the car does not have a 50/50 weight balance and understeers like a dog if you don't, but one needs to know when to ease and let the GT4 take the bend at 100% grip swapping throttle input while winding off the steering with less traction the GT4 has !
e: a 911 imo is more predictable than the GT4 due to the layout and multi link rear sus. So while the 911 might need more work I think the work is easier as it far more predictable. GT4 might be a lot easier if it had multilink rear maybe.
f: every thing happens faster in a GT4 if you go over 100%
g: corner entry is key to fast laps in any lay out.
h: I can drive my GT3 easier than I can my GT4 even though there is more input going on.
Porsche911R said:
it just confirmed nothing else matters but corner entry :-)
but:
a: no one has ever done a 100% perfect lap I would say Lewis did a 99.97% lap maybe, every one else did 99.91%, always time to find in a lap.
b: he did not change driving style , he drove to the limit of grip of the new geo.
c: corner entry got the pole as expected, threshold braking was the key skill to get it.
d: you do need to trail to apex In a GT4, the car does not have a 50/50 weight balance and understeers like a dog if you don't, but one needs to know when to ease and let the GT4 take the bend at 100% grip swapping throttle input while winding off the steering with less traction the GT4 has !
e: a 911 imo is more predictable than the GT4 due to the layout and multi link rear sus. So while the 911 might need more work I think the work is easier as it far more predictable. GT4 might be a lot easier if it had multilink rear maybe.
f: every thing happens faster in a GT4 if you go over 100%
g: corner entry is key to fast laps in any lay out.
h: I can drive my GT3 easier than I can my GT4 even though there is more input going on.
Lewis Hamilton drives an F1 car. Since this thread is about GT3's and GT4's, what's he got to do with it?but:
a: no one has ever done a 100% perfect lap I would say Lewis did a 99.97% lap maybe, every one else did 99.91%, always time to find in a lap.
b: he did not change driving style , he drove to the limit of grip of the new geo.
c: corner entry got the pole as expected, threshold braking was the key skill to get it.
d: you do need to trail to apex In a GT4, the car does not have a 50/50 weight balance and understeers like a dog if you don't, but one needs to know when to ease and let the GT4 take the bend at 100% grip swapping throttle input while winding off the steering with less traction the GT4 has !
e: a 911 imo is more predictable than the GT4 due to the layout and multi link rear sus. So while the 911 might need more work I think the work is easier as it far more predictable. GT4 might be a lot easier if it had multilink rear maybe.
f: every thing happens faster in a GT4 if you go over 100%
g: corner entry is key to fast laps in any lay out.
h: I can drive my GT3 easier than I can my GT4 even though there is more input going on.
Steve Rance said:
Lewis Hamilton drives an F1 car. Since this thread is about GT3's and GT4's, what's he got to do with it?
every thing as he is the master at hot lapping and every day is a learning day because no one can do 100% perfect laps. A cars a car. watching his laps shows one how to get close to a perfect lap and why he does it more often than other people. it's a corner entry and threshold braking master class.posting vids of club amateurs is pointless !!! they seem to lack track knowledge !
racers saying corner exit is key is tripe imo.
you can run though my bullet points if you like ;-) be interesting from a racers point of view to go though them.
Porsche911R said:
but hey, you de winged a GT3 lol :-)
See thats the joy of the older cars, you can modify them without having to worry about invalidating warranties, and go to town on it (pending on how deep ones pockets are) and modify it to how you want. So if the OP or someone in a similar position wants to tinker with a car, they would probably be best off getting an 'older' car.Still not quite sure how you can compare 'de-winging' a GT3 to thrashing an engine pre-run in. I can always stick the wing back on if my heart desires, can you reverse any potential damage to the engine?
Also, who would have thought a GT3 with RWS and better package would be quicker than a 'lesser' car
He does spout some verbal d....
But on this point i'm with Mr D, corner entry is usually where the better drivers gain against the worse IME.
Back to OP's topic, buy a 996 GT3 and head off on the modifying journey. Absolutely lovely old things that are still super sharp with a few tweaks.
In fact, buy the red one already mentioned and you are well on the way.
But on this point i'm with Mr D, corner entry is usually where the better drivers gain against the worse IME.
Back to OP's topic, buy a 996 GT3 and head off on the modifying journey. Absolutely lovely old things that are still super sharp with a few tweaks.
In fact, buy the red one already mentioned and you are well on the way.
Well it's developed into an interesting thread. 911R's comments are getting more and more polarised with his 'corner entry is everything' mantra which is most amusing. But hey, I'm merely a crap clubbie racer, what do I know? Well obviously you cant do a fast corner without a great entry so getting to the apex is key. But you can't do a fast corner without a good exit and getting a good exit is the whole point.
Well of course it's the whole point of fast laps which I am wholly interesting in..... when I am testing, qualifying and racing my single seater.
When I'm driving cross country or even doing a track day in a 911, I really don't care about how fast the lap is. What I care about is how much fun I'm having.
Anyway, it's a brilliant thread so far, very much enjoying it. But I suspect I'll go really dull and get a 996 GT3.
Bert
Well of course it's the whole point of fast laps which I am wholly interesting in..... when I am testing, qualifying and racing my single seater.
When I'm driving cross country or even doing a track day in a 911, I really don't care about how fast the lap is. What I care about is how much fun I'm having.
Anyway, it's a brilliant thread so far, very much enjoying it. But I suspect I'll go really dull and get a 996 GT3.
Mitch911 said:
In fact, buy the red one already mentioned and you are well on the way.
I think I missed this with all the talk of Lewis and Fernando! Which one?Bert
harrykul said:
I was hoping that you would see this, as I'd read the t911 article and see that you'd went to work on it.
Looked great btw!
This thread has got me thinking about the 996.2 gt3, when I'd only ever considered the .1. think it'll end up like my 993 search where I just went for the best I could afford, as there are positives and negatives to both.
Cheers Harry,I am a tinkerer at heart and therefore mint condition, low mileage examples hold little sway with me as I know it would be just a waste of the extra I was paying. I would rather spend that money rebuilding the bits that need doing to make it as good as or if not better than when it left the factory for my intended use.Looked great btw!
This thread has got me thinking about the 996.2 gt3, when I'd only ever considered the .1. think it'll end up like my 993 search where I just went for the best I could afford, as there are positives and negatives to both.
I have done the same with my 997 turbo where I had chucked 30k miles on in 3 years, plus tracked it and its only supposed to be the sunday car
BertBert said:
I think I missed this with all the talk of Lewis and Fernando! Which one?
Bert
Might be mine...unless I missed another red one?Bert
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I've decided it's time to stop beating around the bush and buy an RS.
CrashBang said:
Is it just me who finds 911R's posts tiresome?
Every Porsche GT thread he chimes in as if he's Walter Rohrl - Take a day off chap, your not impressing anyone, nobody buys your BS.
add to the post or don't post, I am not out to impress any one.Every Porsche GT thread he chimes in as if he's Walter Rohrl - Take a day off chap, your not impressing anyone, nobody buys your BS.
you post is pointless and you clearly have zero clue to get involved.
m33ufo said:
Might be mine...unless I missed another red one?
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I've decided it's time to stop beating around the bush and buy an RS.
This is the one I was referring to. https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I've decided it's time to stop beating around the bush and buy an RS.
Also, always worth asking La Source whether he has something cobalt floating around his GT Porsche hedge fund
BertBert said:
But you can't do a fast corner without a good exit and getting a good exit is the whole point.
Bert
Good exit won't happen if you are 20mph off the apex speed on the wrong line !!Bert
https://youtu.be/_FlCyb3Vs0o
watch from 9.30 how the entry is so far wrong he is totally screwed. basic driver error.
I picked the much loved 996 GT3 cup car ;-)
Mitch911 said:
He does spout some verbal d....
But on this point i'm with Mr D, corner entry is usually where the better drivers gain against the worse IME.
Back to OP's topic, buy a 996 GT3 and head off on the modifying journey. Absolutely lovely old things that are still super sharp with a few tweaks.
In fact, buy the red one already mentioned and you are well on the way.
Yes, I agree with that point too - the faster driver is the one better at braking. But not sure why that is the 'victory' in this conversation - its is a side point.But on this point i'm with Mr D, corner entry is usually where the better drivers gain against the worse IME.
Back to OP's topic, buy a 996 GT3 and head off on the modifying journey. Absolutely lovely old things that are still super sharp with a few tweaks.
In fact, buy the red one already mentioned and you are well on the way.
Porsche911R said:
BertBert said:
But you can't do a fast corner without a good exit and getting a good exit is the whole point.
Bert
Good exit won't happen if you are 20mph off the apex speed on the wrong line !!Bert
https://youtu.be/_FlCyb3Vs0o
watch from 9.30 how the entry is so far wrong he is totally screwed. basic driver error.
I picked the much loved 996 GT3 cup car ;-)
Regarding the entry to La Source, why are you so pejorative about it? The "proper" entry line seems to be well occupied to me with other cars. He could either try an inside line, queue up behind the car on the outside line or run into the back of him. In traffic the ideal line is often compromised. Watching some recent Radical racing at Spa, quite a few people took a similar line in traffic and made the move stick.
He got quite good speed to Eau Rouge alongside the car to his left (that had gone really wide on the exit of La S) and just in front of him, but got the door shut in Eau Rouge and had to completely lift off. Then really slow along the Kemmel #obvs. That seems to me to have everything to do with race craft and nothing to do with the ideal entry line to corners.
Interesting to watch, thanks for posting!
Bert
m33ufo said:
Might be mine...unless I missed another red one?
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I've decided it's time to stop beating around the bush and buy an RS.
It's nice, is it in Cardiff? For viewing, not nicking purposes!https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I've decided it's time to stop beating around the bush and buy an RS.
Mitch911 said:
He does spout some verbal d....
But on this point i'm with Mr D, corner entry is usually where the better drivers gain against the worse IME.
.
Agreed esp on the verbal d But on this point i'm with Mr D, corner entry is usually where the better drivers gain against the worse IME.
.
. But he also then screws up his whole point as getting the correct corner entry (especially in an older gt3) is much more difficult than in the gt4.....BertBert said:
m33ufo said:
Might be mine...unless I missed another red one?
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I've decided it's time to stop beating around the bush and buy an RS.
It's nice, is it in Cardiff? For viewing, not nicking purposes!https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I've decided it's time to stop beating around the bush and buy an RS.
Porsche911R said:
every thing as he is the master at hot lapping and every day is a learning day because no one can do 100% perfect laps. A cars a car. watching his laps shows one how to get close to a perfect lap and why he does it more often than other people. it's a corner entry and threshold braking master class.
posting vids of club amateurs is pointless !!! they seem to lack track knowledge !
racers saying corner exit is key is tripe imo.
you can run though my bullet points if you like ;-) be interesting from a racers point of view to go though them.
I don’t think that there is any point. posting vids of club amateurs is pointless !!! they seem to lack track knowledge !
racers saying corner exit is key is tripe imo.
you can run though my bullet points if you like ;-) be interesting from a racers point of view to go though them.
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