RE: Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16 | The Brave Pill
Discussion
ilovequo said:
Looks like a ball ache
They are a ball ache. For some reason all the cosworth's (at least the ones i've looked at) seem to go rusty. And it's not just a scab or two, i'm talking full blown rot in some of the most obscure places. It can easily be missed underneath due to underseal, but take a hammer and watch whole sections of the floor pan disintegrate. I had one like that. A month after buying it I went over a speed bump and a knocking noise appeared. It turned out one side of the rear ARB had dropped down. A hammer revealed a multitude of sins that had spread far and wide... the only thing holding the car together was underseal.
fiju said:
ilovequo said:
Looks like a ball ache
They are a ball ache. For some reason all the cosworth's (at least the ones i've looked at) seem to go rusty. And it's not just a scab or two, i'm talking full blown rot in some of the most obscure places. It can easily be missed underneath due to underseal, but take a hammer and watch whole sections of the floor pan disintegrate. I had one like that. A month after buying it I went over a speed bump and a knocking noise appeared. It turned out one side of the rear ARB had dropped down. A hammer revealed a multitude of sins that had spread far and wide... the only thing holding the car together was underseal.So, about the 2.3 16v Cosworth lump, can they be a decent transplant into something Caterham-esque? Perhaps a fruitier cam and hey presto, an exotic heart!
I like the idea of keeping other cars going with useful parts...
StuntmanMike said:
Old Merc’s seem to have a cult like following on here. I don’t understand it either.
I'm not surprised. The two or three best built and most reliable vehicles I've ever owned were early Nineties Mercedes (including a bog standard and not vastly well optioned W201 190E). The only other car that has come close on build quality was my Panamera made twenty-five years later, and I can't claim bullet-proof reliability from that, I'm sorry to say.
Hereward said:
StuntmanMike said:
Old Merc’s seem to have a cult like following on here. I don’t understand it either.
Some people don't like modern cars and enjoy restoration projects. Applies to all makes. Porkymerc said:
Such a shame Mercedes has chosen to deny owners of classic models the parts supply to economically restore and keep them running. They like to rely on the reputation gained during the 70's - 90's period. They should be proud that their products have such a following and be part of the process without charging the earth for everything as they do now.
It's purely supply and demand that drives the cost of parts.I had one of these back in the late 00's, bought as a none runner. It was something to do with the timing, when we stripped it down it was actually the small - standard 190e - timing gear the drove the distributor.
We replaced all the other timing gears at the same time as most were worn, anything standard 190e was peanuts, anything Cosworth-specific was at least 10 times the price.
You would have to be keen to spend that much on one, I bet you could build something pretty special based on a 190 that runs rings round the originals.
Ok, it wouldn't be original but Singer seem to manage with old 911's.
Take one old 190, fit a decent engine (loads to choose from), appropriate body styling, high end suspension, brakes etc and nice set of wheels.
I was looking at a Facebook thread where some Jowett owners were disgusted at one of their cars having had a five speed Ford gearbox fitted, which made me think that the purists can p
s off and wk themselves into a frenzy over stuff that is generally outdated and doesnt work, I would much rather have something that took the best of both worlds. Remember a relative with an E Type not wanting to make any improvements to make life easier as it wouldnt be original, didnt drive the bloody thing as it was such a liability.
What would make a good modernised 190 ?
Ok, it wouldn't be original but Singer seem to manage with old 911's.
Take one old 190, fit a decent engine (loads to choose from), appropriate body styling, high end suspension, brakes etc and nice set of wheels.
I was looking at a Facebook thread where some Jowett owners were disgusted at one of their cars having had a five speed Ford gearbox fitted, which made me think that the purists can p
s off and wk themselves into a frenzy over stuff that is generally outdated and doesnt work, I would much rather have something that took the best of both worlds. Remember a relative with an E Type not wanting to make any improvements to make life easier as it wouldnt be original, didnt drive the bloody thing as it was such a liability.What would make a good modernised 190 ?
J4CKO said:
What would make a good modernised 190 ?
There are examples of C63 underpinnings going into a 190 shell but they're all a bit Fast and Furious in execution. It's hardly "Singer" but Mercedes themselves put a modern 2.2 D Blue Efficiency engine in a 190D. Absolutely standard engine but because of the 190's flywieght, it's quicker to 100 km/h than an 2.5-16v EVO 2, and averages 50 mpg - standard looking including original 15" wheels.
https://www.carscoops.com/2009/09/back-to-future-b...
Dapster said:
J4CKO said:
What would make a good modernised 190 ?
There are examples of C63 underpinnings going into a 190 shell but they're all a bit Fast and Furious in execution. It's hardly "Singer" but Mercedes themselves put a modern 2.2 D Blue Efficiency engine in a 190D. Absolutely standard engine but because of the 190's flywieght, it's quicker to 100 km/h than an 2.5-16v EVO 2, and averages 50 mpg - standard looking including original 15" wheels.
https://www.carscoops.com/2009/09/back-to-future-b...
I love these. Mad how prices have gone sky high.
Back in 2005, I saw one on AutoTrader for £500, in Smoke Silver, Manual, Half Leather. It was 5 miles down the road. I agreed to purchase it, but then an hour later the seller called me to say that the original keeper had got in touch and bought it back off him.
I was gutted. That same car would be circa £15k today.
My ideal spec would be an early 2.3-16, in BlueBlack Metallic, Full Black Leather, Manual Dog Leg.
Back in 2005, I saw one on AutoTrader for £500, in Smoke Silver, Manual, Half Leather. It was 5 miles down the road. I agreed to purchase it, but then an hour later the seller called me to say that the original keeper had got in touch and bought it back off him.
I was gutted. That same car would be circa £15k today.
My ideal spec would be an early 2.3-16, in BlueBlack Metallic, Full Black Leather, Manual Dog Leg.
Dapster said:
J4CKO said:
What would make a good modernised 190 ?
There are examples of C63 underpinnings going into a 190 shell but they're all a bit Fast and Furious in execution. It's hardly "Singer" but Mercedes themselves put a modern 2.2 D Blue Efficiency engine in a 190D. Absolutely standard engine but because of the 190's flywieght, it's quicker to 100 km/h than an 2.5-16v EVO 2, and averages 50 mpg - standard looking including original 15" wheels.
https://www.carscoops.com/2009/09/back-to-future-b...
That said, there are masses of Mercedes engines in all manner of old woofage like S500s that could be had very cheaply, whether that would fit I dont know but there are plenty of modern/more recent/more powerful engines that would be really good in one. Dont think anyone would bemoan the loss of a 1.8 or 2 litre four.
J4CKO said:
Dapster said:
J4CKO said:
What would make a good modernised 190 ?
There are examples of C63 underpinnings going into a 190 shell but they're all a bit Fast and Furious in execution. It's hardly "Singer" but Mercedes themselves put a modern 2.2 D Blue Efficiency engine in a 190D. Absolutely standard engine but because of the 190's flywieght, it's quicker to 100 km/h than an 2.5-16v EVO 2, and averages 50 mpg - standard looking including original 15" wheels.
https://www.carscoops.com/2009/09/back-to-future-b...
That said, there are masses of Mercedes engines in all manner of old woofage like S500s that could be had very cheaply, whether that would fit I dont know but there are plenty of modern/more recent/more powerful engines that would be really good in one. Dont think anyone would bemoan the loss of a 1.8 or 2 litre four.
s m said:
GTRene said:
or make something like this one, with V8 looks cool as well, me thinks.
There is a genuine 190E 3.2AMG up for sale at the moment if you wanted a bigger motor than the 2.6
a 190E 3.2 AMG looks different, see the flares 'missing' see also the rear spoiler etc
it has more the look of this 190E 2.5 Evolution AMG Power Pack like the front flares/spoiler
Edited by GTRene on Tuesday 6th October 00:10
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