RE: 'Collector condition' Ford Fiesta ST150 | Spotted
Discussion
I didn't like these when they were new, and I still don't like them now. I'm sure they do handle well, but I just find them boring to look at and that 2.0 lump is from a Mondeo and is rather restricted out of the box. Maybe I would have liked it when I'm 18, but I probably would still rather have had a Clio 172.
TREMAiNE said:
I never personally understood why anyone would buy one of these over pretty much any of the rivals.
It's slow, fairly boring to look at and just doesn't seem special to me.
I suppose Fast Fords have a big following and it was fairly cheap.
Remove those elements and it wouldn't have sold anywhere near as well.
I agree. I never got these either; I hated the interior with the green back lighting and I don’t think it’s aged well at all.It's slow, fairly boring to look at and just doesn't seem special to me.
I suppose Fast Fords have a big following and it was fairly cheap.
Remove those elements and it wouldn't have sold anywhere near as well.
I’d far rather any of the competition. I much preferred the 182 and the Cooper S that I bought.
The asking price is mental. You’d certifying if you dropped nearly £13k on that.
Edited by Court_S on Tuesday 23 March 15:28
The non-ST versions are very simple, reliable, rust-resistant (so very cheap to own) compared with many of their rivals, I've no reason to think that the ST ones are much different -other than running costs.
There are still huge numbers of Fiestas of this generation on the road if Manchester is anything to go by.
I wouldn't be paying so much for one, though!
There are still huge numbers of Fiestas of this generation on the road if Manchester is anything to go by.
I wouldn't be paying so much for one, though!
Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 23 March 16:38
MC Bodge said:
The non-ST versions are very simple, reliable, rust-resistant (so very cheap to own) compared with many of their rivals, I've no reason to think that the ST ones are much different -other than running costs.
There are still huge numbers of Fiestas of this generation on the road if Manchester is anything to go by.
I wouldn't be paying so much for one, though!
Yes, this one might be a few years ahead of its asking perhapsThere are still huge numbers of Fiestas of this generation on the road if Manchester is anything to go by.
I wouldn't be paying so much for one, though!
Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 23 March 16:38
£13k is the preserve of XR2s, Clio Willys and 205s
R53 Minis, Clio 182s and these Fiestas are yet to get there
To be honest I don’t see the appeal. I had one of these for 2 years. Didn’t handle on rails like some claim, was underpowered, needed mods to look decent (spacers, lowered), dash was a terrible color, gearbox was poor (5 speed).
Pros- cheap
However this one isn’t so you’d have to be mental or loaded to part 13k for one of these.
Pick a type r if you want something old, na and fun cause these ain’t ticking any boxes
Pros- cheap
However this one isn’t so you’d have to be mental or loaded to part 13k for one of these.
Pick a type r if you want something old, na and fun cause these ain’t ticking any boxes
Having owned an ST150 and several Clio 172/182s the difference is the Fiesta gets to about 5000 revs and then not a lot more happens, the Clios get to 5000 revs and take off
That said I would rather have an accident in an ST, it was launched 5 years (?) later than the 172s and carried the extra size, weight and strength of a more modern car unfortunately without enough power, it's more comparable to Clio 197s which are also less lively than 182s
Not sure any ST Fords are ever going to be really collectable, I know early XR2s and XR3s are quite valuable now but you really need an RS in the model name for a decent return on an investment
That said I would rather have an accident in an ST, it was launched 5 years (?) later than the 172s and carried the extra size, weight and strength of a more modern car unfortunately without enough power, it's more comparable to Clio 197s which are also less lively than 182s
Not sure any ST Fords are ever going to be really collectable, I know early XR2s and XR3s are quite valuable now but you really need an RS in the model name for a decent return on an investment
blade7 said:
Derek182 said:
Not sure any ST Fords are ever going to be really collectable, I know early XR2s and XR3s are quite valuable now but you really need an RS in the model name for a decent return on an investment
IMO the XR3 was a pile of steaming s
te, so anything is possible.
On another note, people complaining about the price of this Fiesta, would be the type to happily spend the same dosh on a Fiesta RS Turbo
I have owned both a Fiesta RS Turbo with a modest 220bhp and Mk7.5 Fiesta ST2 MP215. The RST drove like a bag of sh!t and with huge lag etc it felt like it would tear your face off. The mk7.5 ST2 handled well, but needed the MP215 kit to make it interesting.
But all in all, they are still Fiestas. Arent built to last or to be collected. Pretty much a white goods car.
Now, for £13k you can pick up a circa 100,000 miles E46 M3, and have alot more fun and have guaranteed future sale at a profit.
Years back my cousin had an ST that had been messed about with slightly. Cams,Miltek and Dreamscience software. It sat really well too on aftermarket parts and I thought it handled ok but power wise it just felt lacking and the louder exhaust didn’t do it any favours and he didn’t either by massively over inflating the cars potential. On a particular run out he was having trouble losing a Honda Civic on a mix of B roads and dual carriageway.
It’s ok says I. No shame in being given a hard time by a Civic Type R. Then it passed at a roundabout.
It was a Type S.
He didn’t really say much on the way home.
It’s ok says I. No shame in being given a hard time by a Civic Type R. Then it passed at a roundabout.
It was a Type S.
He didn’t really say much on the way home.
blade7 said:
Derek182 said:
Not sure any ST Fords are ever going to be really collectable, I know early XR2s and XR3s are quite valuable now but you really need an RS in the model name for a decent return on an investment
IMO the XR3 was a pile of steaming ste, so anything is possible.Then they start to increase in value and before long people are paying double for the nicest ones as enough people enjoyed owning one to push the prices up.
These will follow the pattern I’d say - decent handling and Clio Williams performance
Maybe not liked by all but no hot hatch was and as per the tests of new ones driven by journos, an ST150 was on par with a contemporary Cooper S on track, a tuned ST185 up with a Clio 197
I can see these fetching 5 figures in the future just not yet, same as a Cooper S fetching 205 1.9 money and a Clio 182 going for Clio Williams money
Edited by s m on Wednesday 24th March 07:56
As others have said, the price is just a few years ahead of the reality currently. If this car is still in similar condition in 10 years, it will attract the collectors, just as its so low mileage.
I remember driving one of these from the local dealer when they were new. I was a bit underwhelmed overall, and I was only driving a 1.8 Escort at the time. It was nice enough, handled ok, went ok, but lacked a bit of sparkle I thought. A guy on one of the Clio forums has one with the MR200 engine kit and Recaro CS seats. If it had come like that from the factory, it would probably have been an icon, but they do feel a bit tame in standard form. The Clio 172 and then 197 later (which I've owned both of) also gives the Fiesta a bit of a headache, as they're more focused. That being said, with prices of the 172/182 getting stronger and stronger, a cheap ST with some light engine work would make a good alternative I imagine.
I don't really understand the criticisms surrounding the gearing, ride or "lack of sophistication" to be honest. It's a 15-year old hot hatch, not an S-Class. If you're looking for plush ride and fuel economy, buy a diesel Passat or something.
You might deem a car like that as something that's not built to last or to be collected but, given the prices they now attract, I would suggest that the market says otherwise.
I remember driving one of these from the local dealer when they were new. I was a bit underwhelmed overall, and I was only driving a 1.8 Escort at the time. It was nice enough, handled ok, went ok, but lacked a bit of sparkle I thought. A guy on one of the Clio forums has one with the MR200 engine kit and Recaro CS seats. If it had come like that from the factory, it would probably have been an icon, but they do feel a bit tame in standard form. The Clio 172 and then 197 later (which I've owned both of) also gives the Fiesta a bit of a headache, as they're more focused. That being said, with prices of the 172/182 getting stronger and stronger, a cheap ST with some light engine work would make a good alternative I imagine.
I don't really understand the criticisms surrounding the gearing, ride or "lack of sophistication" to be honest. It's a 15-year old hot hatch, not an S-Class. If you're looking for plush ride and fuel economy, buy a diesel Passat or something.
Mannginger said:
That's not worth half that IMO. Fun enough but *very* crashy suspension and not sophisticated at all
How sophisticated should a 15-year old hot hatch be? It had a 2.0-litre engine, Macpherson struts up front, twist beam at the rear - all pretty much the standard approach at that time.vanschpunk said:
Calling a spade, a spade here
On another note, people complaining about the price of this Fiesta, would be the type to happily spend the same dosh on a Fiesta RS Turbo
I have owned both a Fiesta RS Turbo with a modest 220bhp and Mk7.5 Fiesta ST2 MP215. The RST drove like a bag of sh!t and with huge lag etc it felt like it would tear your face off. The mk7.5 ST2 handled well, but needed the MP215 kit to make it interesting.
But all in all, they are still Fiestas. Arent built to last or to be collected. Pretty much a white goods car.
Now, for £13k you can pick up a circa 100,000 miles E46 M3, and have alot more fun and have guaranteed future sale at a profit.
"Fun" is pretty subjective though. You might think an M3 is more fun but, for others, a Fiesta RS Turbo would be. A car doesn't have to be objectively good in order to be collectible. A Model T is a white goods car, but people desire those. Most '60s Ferraris aren't actually all that good to drive, but they can fetch millions. Don't get me wrong, this car is over-priced, as it hasn't reached the point of being collectible yet, but that doesn't mean it never will. For many folk, a classic car is desirable for the memories it evokes as much as how it drives. You might have hated the lag in your RST but, for me, that's what the car was all about. I wouldn't pay the money they now command, but the first "proper" performance car I drove was a chipped Fiesta Turbo, so it holds a place in my heart beyond its objective abilities. On another note, people complaining about the price of this Fiesta, would be the type to happily spend the same dosh on a Fiesta RS Turbo
I have owned both a Fiesta RS Turbo with a modest 220bhp and Mk7.5 Fiesta ST2 MP215. The RST drove like a bag of sh!t and with huge lag etc it felt like it would tear your face off. The mk7.5 ST2 handled well, but needed the MP215 kit to make it interesting.
But all in all, they are still Fiestas. Arent built to last or to be collected. Pretty much a white goods car.
Now, for £13k you can pick up a circa 100,000 miles E46 M3, and have alot more fun and have guaranteed future sale at a profit.
You might deem a car like that as something that's not built to last or to be collected but, given the prices they now attract, I would suggest that the market says otherwise.
Edited by Jon_S_Rally on Wednesday 24th March 15:15
I was probably overly brief in my summary. In my experience the ST suspension felt like the engineers just said "Stiffer is better" for a sporty model. Compared to the same model Zetec S it felt very...blunt?
That's not to say I didn't enjoy it, I loved my Essex stripes and the ridiculous noise the K&N filter I put on it made (I was young), but boy blatting down a rough road was a bit of a chore
Edit: Memory lane pic!
That's not to say I didn't enjoy it, I loved my Essex stripes and the ridiculous noise the K&N filter I put on it made (I was young), but boy blatting down a rough road was a bit of a chore
Edit: Memory lane pic!
Yes suspension has come on a lot, the MK6 sits high but has stiff suspension (perhaps the damping). It could also be to do with the boat anchors they supplied as wheels. More energy transmitted back to the car after a bump.
For reference I’ve owned Mk7, Mk8 and currently have GR Yaris. Mk8 and GR feel softer (GR much more so) and have lower ride height.
But I think it’s probably down to advancement in suspension technology, wheel weight etc etc.
Part of the reason I switched to 16” wheels to take the edge of it.
For reference I’ve owned Mk7, Mk8 and currently have GR Yaris. Mk8 and GR feel softer (GR much more so) and have lower ride height.
But I think it’s probably down to advancement in suspension technology, wheel weight etc etc.
Part of the reason I switched to 16” wheels to take the edge of it.
mintmansam said:
Yes suspension has come on a lot, the MK6 sits high but has stiff suspension (perhaps the damping). It could also be to do with the boat anchors they supplied as wheels. More energy transmitted back to the car after a bump.
For reference I’ve owned Mk7, Mk8 and currently have GR Yaris. Mk8 and GR feel softer (GR much more so) and have lower ride height.
But I think it’s probably down to advancement in suspension technology, wheel weight etc etc.
Part of the reason I switched to 16” wheels to take the edge of it.
Same was true with the R53 Cooper S - my friend had an early one with the leaden 17” S-spokes and run flats that most of them got. It was like bricks for suspension - tried a demo that came on 16” X-lites, the OE wheel ( much lighter ), with runflats and it was much better.For reference I’ve owned Mk7, Mk8 and currently have GR Yaris. Mk8 and GR feel softer (GR much more so) and have lower ride height.
But I think it’s probably down to advancement in suspension technology, wheel weight etc etc.
Part of the reason I switched to 16” wheels to take the edge of it.
Ditching the 16” runflats for normal tyres saved another 2kg a corner. The 15” Imola wheels and non-runflats are basically half the weight per corner of the usual Chilli pack setup
So much nicer to drive on a bumpy road. Seeing as the Fiesta and R53 are similar weight and performance I can well see the benefits of your switch
17-inch wheels was pretty big, and I remember the MINI being really stiff as well. My Clio 197 is stiff too. Stiff equals "sporty" in the minds of many, so I'm sure there's an element of that in the design of some of these cars, as well as the styling requirements of designers wanting to fit big wheels.
Tyres have moved on in the last few years too, so that's probably helped on newer stuff, as well as better damping, lighter wheels etc. Cars like the Fiesta ST and Clio 197 were in that unfortunate place of being a bit larger, but the use of lighter materials wasn't quite so prolific.
Tyres have moved on in the last few years too, so that's probably helped on newer stuff, as well as better damping, lighter wheels etc. Cars like the Fiesta ST and Clio 197 were in that unfortunate place of being a bit larger, but the use of lighter materials wasn't quite so prolific.
Jon_S_Rally said:
17-inch wheels was pretty big, and I remember the MINI being really stiff as well. My Clio 197 is stiff too. Stiff equals "sporty" in the minds of many, so I'm sure there's an element of that in the design of some of these cars, as well as the styling requirements of designers wanting to fit big wheels.
It's not as if Ford and Renault didn't know how to design a good chassis. As above, the Zetec/Zetec-S rode and handled well. Excessive stiffness and increased unsprung weight are not good things, even if the public expect(ed) it.Jon_S_Rally said:
17-inch wheels was pretty big, and I remember the MINI being really stiff as well. My Clio 197 is stiff too. Stiff equals "sporty" in the minds of many, so I'm sure there's an element of that in the design of some of these cars, as well as the styling requirements of designers wanting to fit big wheels.
Tyres have moved on in the last few years too, so that's probably helped on newer stuff, as well as better damping, lighter wheels etc. Cars like the Fiesta ST and Clio 197 were in that unfortunate place of being a bit larger, but the use of lighter materials wasn't quite so prolific.
Going geeky into it. The MK6 & MK7 both had 205/40/17 where as the MK8 had 205/45/17 I always wondered if this gave a bit more compliance back to car having a taller sidewall. It’s still probably a sprung vs unsprung issue but it did seem to soak bumps up better. Tyres might also be a factor the Michelin on the Mk7 I swapped for Goodyear and that made a world of difference but you lost some of that texture through the steering wheel. Without trying to mention it too much the GR Yaris with circuit pack is beautifully smooth (absorbs bumps) without crashing but has low sprung mass and stiff springs. So definitely a development in application of sporty suspension. Tyres have moved on in the last few years too, so that's probably helped on newer stuff, as well as better damping, lighter wheels etc. Cars like the Fiesta ST and Clio 197 were in that unfortunate place of being a bit larger, but the use of lighter materials wasn't quite so prolific.
Like you said I think they were finding their way regarding compromise of stiffness, plus our roads were (IMO) better back then, so it’s only started to become a more focused issue recently after these were released
Saying all this, the best bit of the car was learning about lift over steer , I recall getting a fairly wide angle “drift” whilst going round a corner and it gave me enough time to apply the throttle and pull itself out. I think this car was particularly good because it had enough weight over the rear but it had high amount of engine braking so I really did get to play tunes with it. Often on quiet roundabouts going in deep in 2nd gear lift the throttle whip the steering wheel and it would slide round, no handbrake required
And finally yes £13k is far too much for this car. I find that too low mileage is worse for a vehicle, especially if the oil has had time fully drain from the head / pistons. I glad it’s getting recognised, as you can probably tell I enjoy the vehicle a lot. A strong £6-7k would be reasonable in my eyes.
Edited by mintmansam on Thursday 25th March 09:39
Edited by mintmansam on Thursday 25th March 09:44
Edited by mintmansam on Thursday 25th March 10:38
mintmansam said:
Going geeky into it. The MK6 & MK7 both had 205/40/17 where as the MK8 had 205/45/17 I always wondered if this gave a bit more compliance back to car having a taller sidewall. It’s still probably a sprung vs unsprung issue but it did seem to soak bumps up better. Tyres might also be a factor the Michelin on the Mk7 I swapped for Goodyear and that made a world of difference but you lost some of that texture through the steering wheel. Without trying to mention it too much the GR Yaris with circuit pack is beautifully smooth (absorbs bumps) without crashing but has low sprung mass and stiff springs. So definitely a development in application of sporty suspension.
Yes, that Yaris looks to be some machine - definitely on my list to try once some secondhand cheaper ones filter down
mintmansam said:
Like you said I think they were finding their way regarding compromise of stiffness, plus our roads were (IMO) better back then, so it’s only started to become a more focused issue recently after these were released
Saying all this, the best bit of the car was learning about lift over steer , I recall getting a fairly wide angle “drift” whilst going round a corner and it gave me enough time to apply the throttle and pull itself out. I think this car was particularly good because it had enough weight over the rear but it had high amount of engine braking so I really did get to play tunes with it. Often on quiet roundabouts going in deep in 2nd gear lift the throttle whip the steering wheel and it would slide round, no handbrake required
Can remember EVO noting that too when they tried it on trackSaying all this, the best bit of the car was learning about lift over steer , I recall getting a fairly wide angle “drift” whilst going round a corner and it gave me enough time to apply the throttle and pull itself out. I think this car was particularly good because it had enough weight over the rear but it had high amount of engine braking so I really did get to play tunes with it. Often on quiet roundabouts going in deep in 2nd gear lift the throttle whip the steering wheel and it would slide round, no handbrake required
mintmansam said:
And finally yes £13k is far too much for this car. I find that too low mileage is worse for a vehicle, especially if the oil has had time fully drain from the head / pistons. I glad it’s getting recognised, as you can probably tell I enjoy the vehicle a lot. A strong £6-7k would be reasonable in my eyes.
I’d tend to agree that it’s a few years ahead of what people will payCertainly £7k/£8k would be attainable you’d think with the red one having just sold for that
Most people wouldn’t have thought 205gtis could be fetching 20k plus just a decade back
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