Star Wars: The Last Jedi (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[zygalski]

It'll be interesting to see how blu ray/dvd sales go.
Apart from the first 2 prequels, this is the only Star Wars film I have absolutely no desire to see again.

[chris watton]

They normally bundle them in a box set, that way the sales figures look a lot better than they perhaps should.

I have no intention of buying a copy, I only have the prequels because they were bundled with the OT in an Amazon sale, they have never been out of the case.

I note that for the first time, the IMDB popularity figures are now in the negative, and the score's still dropping.

[Halb]

Yeah, I'd like to see a breakdown of that, when it happens.

I am trying to find an article on what Disney expected from The Last Jedi, myself I would have thought they would have wanted/expected TFA money, or as near as dammit, I do not see why they would not, considering how hard they advertised it, near TFA levels in my experience, but if they did have an inkling it would not be received as well critically, it could explain ambivalence. It has currently passed Rogue One's take, and is doing daily R1 numbers.

I am trying to think of similar recent situations. There's Batman Begins, the sequel smashed that, but then that IP's last outing was pure toilet and who expected it to be so good? Star Trek's sequel also did marginally better that Star Trek, but then the third one did less well. I think the best comparison is in Disney's own stable, Avengers 1 & 2. Two did very well and got close to 1. I reckon 3, being the culmination of ten years lead in will do better business.

[ofcorsa]

zygalski said:

It'll be interesting to see how blu ray/dvd sales go.
Apart from the first 2 prequels, this is the only Star Wars film I have absolutely no desire to see again.

4 of us ( Casual fans of the original trilogy) left feeling exactly the same. None of us thought it was terrible but any more of the franchise i'll happily watch at home.

[chris watton]

Halb said:

Yeah, I'd like to see a breakdown of that, when it happens.

I am trying to find an article on what Disney expected from The Last Jedi, myself I would have thought they would have wanted/expected TFA money, or as near as dammit, I do not see why they would not, considering how hard they advertised it, near TFA levels in my experience, but if they did have an inkling it would not be received as well critically, it could explain ambivalence. It has currently passed Rogue One's take, and is doing daily R1 numbers.

I am trying to think of similar recent situations. There's Batman Begins, the sequel smashed that, but then that IP's last outing was pure toilet and who expected it to be so good? Star Trek's sequel also did marginally better that Star Trek, but then the third one did less well. I think the best comparison is in Disney's own stable, Avengers 1 & 2. Two did very well and got close to 1. I reckon 3, being the culmination of ten years lead in will do better business.

I think it's fair to say that ticket sales for the third film will be down based on the reaction to this latest film, as many people who like SW will be more wary of what they did to this film and the inconsistencies between the professional reviewers and the paying public.

It's not looking too rosy, toy sales are massively down too, and the latest SW based video game hasn't sold as well as it should have, mostly due to the publishers greed, though.

I know one thing, I will not be booking a ticket for the midnight showing of the next one. I shall wait.

[techguyone]

chris watton said:

They normally bundle them in a box set, that way the sales figures look a lot better than they perhaps should.

I have no intention of buying a copy, I only have the prequels because they were bundled with the OT in an Amazon sale, they have never been out of the case.

I note that for the first time, the IMDB popularity figures are now in the negative, and the score's still dropping.

It'll be interesting to see how the final $ales total up, it'll be harder to explain that as fans purposely negatively making the score lower then.

The only thing that'll encourage Disney to do anything moving forward, is if it hits the bottom line. Of course momentum may mean it'll still make a tidy sum simply because: Star Wars but we'll see.

[AndStilliRise]

I am still recovering from the shock, how did they take something epic and turn into crap!

[Bullett]

I've done midnight and got the BR on release for the last two.
I'll probably pick up the BR at some point, but not on release this time and I'll probably not do midnight again either.
The boy will be 10 for Ep9 is one reason and I'm not worried about how he'll cope with it but the other was I didn't enjoy this enough to want to do midnight again.

[ukaskew]

I think IMDB, RT scores etc are misleading, much in the way they were for the Ghostbusters reboot. 'The Internet' is still a long way off the actual general perception of things. People will have been hammering negative reviews in to the review score sites far more than those that felt it was fine, simply because Star Wars has such a passionate fan base.

The film received an 'A' CinemaScore, and they are generally a very reliable indicator of public response because they can't really be gamed.

It's almost a sin to say you like The Last Jedi online (a ton of people jump on you insisting you shouldn't like it, how often does that happen?!) which is funny as those very people insisting others shouldn't like it are the ones suggesting that the reviews are dodgy. You can't have it both ways, an opinion is an opinion.

[Guvernator]

ukaskew said:

I think IMDB, RT scores etc are misleading, much in the way they were for the Ghostbusters reboot. 'The Internet' is still a long way off the actual general perception of things. People will have been hammering negative reviews in to the review score sites far more than those that felt it was fine, simply because Star Wars has such a passionate fan base.

The film received an 'A' CinemaScore, and they are generally a very reliable indicator of public response because they can't really be gamed.

It's almost a sin to say you like The Last Jedi online (a ton of people jump on you insisting you shouldn't like it, how often does that happen?!) which is funny as those very people insisting others shouldn't like it are the ones suggesting that the reviews are dodgy. You can't have it both ways, an opinion is an opinion.

Agreed, I'm pretty sure a lot of the negativity is coming from fans of the OT (I count myself as one them) Casual cinema goers and those too young to remember the OT will probably think it's fine popcorn fair.

[Battlewagon]

chris watton said:

I think it's fair to say that ticket sales for the third film will be down based on the reaction to this latest film, as many people who like SW will be more wary of what they did to this film and the inconsistencies between the professional reviewers and the paying public.

It'll be Solo that takes one for the team, and whilst it may not crack $1billion I'm sure episode 9 will still be a financial success for Disney

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Battlewagon said:

chris watton said:

I think it's fair to say that ticket sales for the third film will be down based on the reaction to this latest film, as many people who like SW will be more wary of what they did to this film and the inconsistencies between the professional reviewers and the paying public.

It'll be Solo that takes one for the team, and whilst it may not crack $1billion I'm sure episode 9 will still be a financial success for Disney

Episode 9 will absolutely break the bank, even just off the internet nerds going to see it to go and post online to say how much they hate it. Job job'd.

[Guvernator]

I went to watch The Phantom Menace on opening night, after being disappointed I watched Attack of the Clones weeks after release and didn't even bother with Return of the Sith until I saw it at a friends house on DVD.

I have no pressing desire to watch episode 9 now either.

There is only so much good will you can use up with fans before they turn away.

[Halb]

ukaskew said:

I think IMDB, RT scores etc are misleading, much in the way they were for the Ghostbusters reboot. 'The Internet' is still a long way off the actual general perception of things. People will have been hammering negative reviews in to the review score sites far more than those that felt it was fine, simply because Star Wars has such a passionate fan base.

I think the scores based on critics are misleading, which RT seems to be, after the Ghostbusters thing and the sony emails, I'm not sure how anyone would trust that site. I took a look at the RT scores for the Star Wars franchise, critics and audience seem to gel, until TLJ, where the discrepancy is 40%

I think Guv is right, TLJ is an average modern film; and most modern action films are poorly edited, written, executed and delivered when compared to ones of yore. I can't see this being loved 30 years down the line.

I don't like the term virtue signalling, but I did reel from the blunt force trauma this film used in pushing it's message. It does make me wonder about Kenndy's vision. Especially about Rey, who seems to be a GOd, except when the plot requires her not to be.
a vid on the inserting of politics into TLJ
https://youtu.be/t0Mpf7qGb4M

[Mothersruin]

Guvernator said:

I went to watch The Phantom Menace on opening night, after being disappointed I watched Attack of the Clones weeks after release and didn't even bother with Return of the Sith until I saw it at a friends house on DVD.

I have no pressing desire to watch episode 9 now either.

There is only so much good will you can use up with fans before they turn away.

They were crap films but not because the story was lacking - they made sense, they also had a specific destination as they needed to fill the back story to IV ANH.

This latest thing was pointless.

[r11co]

ukaskew said:

I think IMDB, RT scores etc are misleading, much in the way they were for the Ghostbusters reboot. 'The Internet' is still a long way off the actual general perception of things. People will have been hammering negative reviews in to the review score sites far more than those that felt it was fine, simply because Star Wars has such a passionate fan base.

The film received an 'A' CinemaScore, and they are generally a very reliable indicator of public response because they can't really be gamed.

They could all be accused of a certain amount of bias, but like most stats they will be trumptered and used in marketing campaigns or dissed as 'fake news' concocted by 'hackers/fanbois/the Russians' depending on whether you are on the winning or losing side.

Oh, and a year-and-a-half into the Ghostbusters remake fiasco and all the pre-release talk of a series of sequels has fallen completely silent. That franchise is going nowhere for the foreseeable future. Nothing misleading about the audience response - if anything it was boosted by the 'low standards will like anything' types who were drawn to it because of the brand, plus it had to be praised by the politically correct types regardless of its cinematic merits or lack thereof.

See a pattern here....?!

Edited by r11co on Tuesday 2nd January 08:36

[chris watton]

Halb said:

I think the scores based on critics are misleading, which RT seems to be, after the Ghostbusters thing and the sony emails, I'm not sure how anyone would trust that site. I took a look at the RT scores for the Star Wars franchise, critics and audience seem to gel, until TLJ, where the discrepancy is 40%

I think Guv is right, TLJ is an average modern film; and most modern action films are poorly edited, written, executed and delivered when compared to ones of yore. I can't see this being loved 30 years down the line.

I don't like the term virtue signalling, but I did reel from the blunt force trauma this film used in pushing it's message. It does make me wonder about Kenndy's vision. Especially about Rey, who seems to be a GOd, except when the plot requires her not to be.
a vid on the inserting of politics into TLJ
https://youtu.be/t0Mpf7qGb4M

I think you're right, that's how I see modern films, too (most of them anyway). They are quite an empty experience, pretty to look at, but quite forgettable.

They remind of that old zombie flick, Land of the Dead, where the protagonists use fireworks to distract the undead, and as they all look up, they are free to do whatever they want. If I recall correctly, even the undead got wise to this trick, and in the same way, I think the western audiences are now becoming aware of the hollow experience of seeing a 'Blockbuster', with very shallow character development and sledgehammer 'right-on' messages, produced by a system that absolutely doesn't practise what it preaches (And let's not put too finer point on this, it is preaching).

Also, a lot of high budget films today remind me of those tacky Kinder adverts, crap and very simple dialogue made for multi-language voiceovers - it is very clear Hollywood are making these films more for the benefit of non-western audiences, and it shows. I think this is one of the reasons BO sales are down, despite the western population increasing.

As always, there are a few exceptions to this, but for the big blockbusters, the empty experience and forgettable plot and characters now seem to be the norm.

[Janluke]

Guvernator said:

ukaskew said:

I think IMDB, RT scores etc are misleading, much in the way they were for the Ghostbusters reboot. 'The Internet' is still a long way off the actual general perception of things. People will have been hammering negative reviews in to the review score sites far more than those that felt it was fine, simply because Star Wars has such a passionate fan base.

The film received an 'A' CinemaScore, and they are generally a very reliable indicator of public response because they can't really be gamed.

It's almost a sin to say you like The Last Jedi online (a ton of people jump on you insisting you shouldn't like it, how often does that happen?!) which is funny as those very people insisting others shouldn't like it are the ones suggesting that the reviews are dodgy. You can't have it both ways, an opinion is an opinion.

Agreed, I'm pretty sure a lot of the negativity is coming from fans of the OT (I count myself as one them) Casual cinema goers and those too young to remember the OT will probably think it's fine popcorn fair.

Let's face it its the "Casual cinema goers/ merchandise buyers " that make or break a film, they make the money. Having the hardcore fanbase onside and good reviews helps but not essential

[ukaskew]

chris watton said:

I think you're right, that's how I see modern films, too (most of them anyway). They are quite an empty experience, pretty to look at, but quite forgettable.

And yet, sadly, a ton of people appear to have been pirating Three Billboards over the past week or so (including a good number on this very forum) now it's apparently hit the streaming sites. A great shame, if ever there was a film that deserved success and should in theory cross the indie/mainstream divide that one be one of them.

It's all very well hoping for more interesting stuff, but people have got to get out and support those films.

[Halb]

chris watton said:

They remind of that old zombie flick, Land of the Dead, where the protagonists use fireworks to distract the undead, and as they all look up, they are free to do whatever they want. If I recall correctly, even the undead got wise to this trick, and in the same way, I think the western audiences are now becoming aware of the hollow experience of seeing a 'Blockbuster', with very shallow character development and sledgehammer 'right-on' messages, produced by a system that absolutely doesn't practise what it preaches (And let's not put too finer point on this, it is preaching).

Also, a lot of high budget films today remind me of those tacky Kinder adverts, crap and very simple dialogue made for multi-language voiceovers - it is very clear Hollywood are making these films more for the benefit of non-western audiences, and it shows. I think this is one of the reasons BO sales are down, despite the western population increasing.

As always, there are a few exceptions to this, but for the big blockbusters, the empty experience and forgettable plot and characters now seem to be the norm.

Yeah, I think the dreaded second weekend drop-off is the biggest fear in Hollywood so they make sure that first weekend is a doozie.
Audiences are getting wise to some, from looking at figures, even the unstoppable Transformers has suffered it's first real bloody nose.

Janluke said:

Let's face it its the "Casual cinema goers/ merchandise buyers " that make or break a film, they make the money. Having the hardcore fanbase onside and good reviews helps but not essential

I'm not sure on this. All studios want franchises this day, and they need tentpole films, which is a billion dollar film, and for that to happen, ones needs a lot more than he regular cinema goer, one needs core fans old and new to feed the franchise. Certain films are needed to be billion dollar films, I reckon any SW film that isn't will be considered disappointing (so hard to guess where SOlo will go), AS-M2 was considered a flop at 750ish.
I just took a look at the highest franchises, SW is a solid two, and I see nothing on the horizon that'll challenge that, the MCU is just unreal, at $13,505,871,829. Casual cinema goers can help small films, but these big films are meant to be events.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-gros...