RE: BMW M5 (E39) | Spotted
Discussion
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
biggbn said:
I didn't really get BMW's until I owned an e39. Had a 530d sport and a 525i se and as another poster suggested, either really were all the car you need. Peak BMW, in fact I have often wondered if a more resolved, better engineered car has ever been offered to the 'mass market'.
I think it depends on what you value most. In reality, the new 5 series is better in just about every measurable way. I even think it's a pretty good looking thing too. Maybe I'm biased but I prefer the E38 to the E39. It's just that bit more comfortable, that bit more refined, that bit more spacious.
e39 M5 are 'nice' cars, although I always found them a bit to big and heavy.
e46 M3 I found a bit better by weight and less heavy, but the i6 engine, hm...
best would be the e39 M5 s62B50 engine in a e46 M3 (or e46 body)
Hartge thought the same and made a few Hartge H50 cars.
there were even a few with a supercharger on top...
e46 M3 I found a bit better by weight and less heavy, but the i6 engine, hm...
best would be the e39 M5 s62B50 engine in a e46 M3 (or e46 body)
Hartge thought the same and made a few Hartge H50 cars.
there were even a few with a supercharger on top...
Bispal said:
I owned an E39 M5 for 2 years 2004-2006. felt quick at the time but was very heavy and riddled with issues that needed a lot spending on them to rectify, £5k if I remember in one year, would not like to own one now with even more miles. I sold mine in 2006 for £9,500,
I had the chance to drive one a month ago and compare it to my E46 330i and an E46 M3. The 330i felt more alive, lighter on its feet and actually quicker, its not its around 1 sec slower to 60 but the E46 330i felt much better. There was no comparison to the E46 M3. Given the purchase price and running costs of the E39 M5 its just not good value compared to the E46 330i sport or M3. Its not even as good to drive or look at, I just don't get how they can justify the recent price rise, its not like they are rare. I wouldn't get another E39 M5 even if they were £5k but I guess there is a saddle for every arse.
I had a 330i not long before I got my M5 and I'm not sure which planet you'd have to be on for performance to feel remotely close, let alone finding the 330i feeling quicker. Absolutely no comparison, completely different leagues.I had the chance to drive one a month ago and compare it to my E46 330i and an E46 M3. The 330i felt more alive, lighter on its feet and actually quicker, its not its around 1 sec slower to 60 but the E46 330i felt much better. There was no comparison to the E46 M3. Given the purchase price and running costs of the E39 M5 its just not good value compared to the E46 330i sport or M3. Its not even as good to drive or look at, I just don't get how they can justify the recent price rise, its not like they are rare. I wouldn't get another E39 M5 even if they were £5k but I guess there is a saddle for every arse.
I’m sure it’s a tale many share, but I had the opportunity to buy a high mileage ( about 140k) example about 8years ago. As I recall it was up for about 5.5k.
Mrs convinced me it would be too expensive to run, and I bottled it and bought a perfectly ordinary Audi A3 instead.
I still haven’t quite forgiven myself. My first car was an e39 528i manual, and i still haven’t loved a car quite as much as that one.
I quite fancy another e39 touring as dog/child transport though
Mrs convinced me it would be too expensive to run, and I bottled it and bought a perfectly ordinary Audi A3 instead.
I still haven’t quite forgiven myself. My first car was an e39 528i manual, and i still haven’t loved a car quite as much as that one.
I quite fancy another e39 touring as dog/child transport though
Jon_S_Rally said:
Is this the most revered car in PH history?
Every time the E39 is mentioned (M or otherwise), people seem to fawn over them relentlessly.
Don't get me wrong, they have a shed load of faults nowadays, marginal cooling system as they age, numerous eeoctrical faults and rust, rust, rust but when they were new they must have been incredible. Every time the E39 is mentioned (M or otherwise), people seem to fawn over them relentlessly.
Turbobanana said:
Around 2001 I was tasked with delivering an M5 to a client in London and the drive remains one of my most disappointing ever. I think I needed 300km of Autobahn to appreciate the car, because down the A12 on a Friday night it just felt boring. Quick, but soulless. One day I'd love to drive another to see if it really matches the hype (I suspect it does, but as that one trip remains my only experience in one it has stayed with me as an impression ever since).
Car in the article looks good: not surprised by the price in today's market.
We took a trip to the dealer in 2001 to pick one as a courtesy car, and I can assure you that we were not left disappointed. Car in the article looks good: not surprised by the price in today's market.
Albeit we had the best of both, a motorway and B roads to play with, it was an experience I'll never forget.
biggbn said:
Jon_S_Rally said:
Is this the most revered car in PH history?
Every time the E39 is mentioned (M or otherwise), people seem to fawn over them relentlessly.
Don't get me wrong, they have a shed load of faults nowadays, marginal cooling system as they age, numerous eeoctrical faults and rust, rust, rust but when they were new they must have been incredible. Every time the E39 is mentioned (M or otherwise), people seem to fawn over them relentlessly.
A fit 530i manual would probably best all the current exec cars if tested today.
SidewaysSi said:
Yep there's a reason - they were awesome.
A fit 530i manual would probably best all the current exec cars if tested today.
It wouldn't though, would it? Modern stuff is safer, more efficient, faster, has more interior space and things like Android Auto, Apple Car Play, which are expected in modern executive cars. The E39 would lose in every single area, apart from perhaps driver engagement which, in reality, no one actually cares about anymore.A fit 530i manual would probably best all the current exec cars if tested today.
Don't get me wrong, the E39 was obviously a good car in its day, and I can understand why nostalgia would draw enthusiasts back to them, even for silly prices (as it does with a load of other older cars), but your average buyer of an executive car would not give two hoots about them anymore. If we're being really honest, to Joe Average, who is just looking for a decent-sized car to move his wife and kids about, the 4-5k a decent E39 530i would cost you would be better spent on a Mondeo or Insignia. You'd be getting a six or seven year old car instead of a 20-year old one, and all the advances in safety and technology that come with it.
That's not saying anything against the E39 of course. If you're enthusiastic about older BMWs, I can absolutely see why one might appeal, but it's bonkers to suggest that it would objectively be a genuine contender against anything from the last decade.
Jon_S_Rally said:
SidewaysSi said:
Yep there's a reason - they were awesome.
A fit 530i manual would probably best all the current exec cars if tested today.
It wouldn't though, would it? Modern stuff is safer, more efficient, faster, has more interior space and things like Android Auto, Apple Car Play, which are expected in modern executive cars. The E39 would lose in every single area, apart from perhaps driver engagement which, in reality, no one actually cares about anymore.A fit 530i manual would probably best all the current exec cars if tested today.
Don't get me wrong, the E39 was obviously a good car in its day, and I can understand why nostalgia would draw enthusiasts back to them, even for silly prices (as it does with a load of other older cars), but your average buyer of an executive car would not give two hoots about them anymore. If we're being really honest, to Joe Average, who is just looking for a decent-sized car to move his wife and kids about, the 4-5k a decent E39 530i would cost you would be better spent on a Mondeo or Insignia. You'd be getting a six or seven year old car instead of a 20-year old one, and all the advances in safety and technology that come with it.
That's not saying anything against the E39 of course. If you're enthusiastic about older BMWs, I can absolutely see why one might appeal, but it's bonkers to suggest that it would objectively be a genuine contender against anything from the last decade.
it is one of the few cars of that era to still feel modern, most people driving mine comment that it feels as new / taut as their more modern cars…
most of modern ‘safety’ kit is about replacing the intelligence of the driver with systems that don’t always work (such as automatic braking which is hugely flawed), so I am more than happy to not have those… I will compensate by actually driving the car and taking responsibility for my own actions
and mine has android auto / apple car play…
in fact mine wins over a 6-7 year old mondeo or insignia in almost every aspect… there is a reason they are so revered and are going up in value - because they are genuinely excellent cars offering something few modern cars can match!
Patrick Bateman said:
Bispal said:
I owned an E39 M5 for 2 years 2004-2006. felt quick at the time but was very heavy and riddled with issues that needed a lot spending on them to rectify, £5k if I remember in one year, would not like to own one now with even more miles. I sold mine in 2006 for £9,500,
I had the chance to drive one a month ago and compare it to my E46 330i and an E46 M3. The 330i felt more alive, lighter on its feet and actually quicker, its not its around 1 sec slower to 60 but the E46 330i felt much better. There was no comparison to the E46 M3. Given the purchase price and running costs of the E39 M5 its just not good value compared to the E46 330i sport or M3. Its not even as good to drive or look at, I just don't get how they can justify the recent price rise, its not like they are rare. I wouldn't get another E39 M5 even if they were £5k but I guess there is a saddle for every arse.
I had a 330i not long before I got my M5 and I'm not sure which planet you'd have to be on for performance to feel remotely close, let alone finding the 330i feeling quicker. Absolutely no comparison, completely different leagues.I had the chance to drive one a month ago and compare it to my E46 330i and an E46 M3. The 330i felt more alive, lighter on its feet and actually quicker, its not its around 1 sec slower to 60 but the E46 330i felt much better. There was no comparison to the E46 M3. Given the purchase price and running costs of the E39 M5 its just not good value compared to the E46 330i sport or M3. Its not even as good to drive or look at, I just don't get how they can justify the recent price rise, its not like they are rare. I wouldn't get another E39 M5 even if they were £5k but I guess there is a saddle for every arse.
akirk said:
presumably you don’t own one?
it is one of the few cars of that era to still feel modern, most people driving mine comment that it feels as new / taut as their more modern cars…
most of modern ‘safety’ kit is about replacing the intelligence of the driver with systems that don’t always work (such as automatic braking which is hugely flawed), so I am more than happy to not have those… I will compensate by actually driving the car and taking responsibility for my own actions
and mine has android auto / apple car play…
in fact mine wins over a 6-7 year old mondeo or insignia in almost every aspect… there is a reason they are so revered and are going up in value - because they are genuinely excellent cars offering something few modern cars can match!
No I don't, but a friend owned a 535i for a while and I drove it a few times. It was ok. Quite comfortable, sounded nice, went ok, but it 100% felt like a 20-year old car, which is exactly what it was at the time, and exactly what you would expect.it is one of the few cars of that era to still feel modern, most people driving mine comment that it feels as new / taut as their more modern cars…
most of modern ‘safety’ kit is about replacing the intelligence of the driver with systems that don’t always work (such as automatic braking which is hugely flawed), so I am more than happy to not have those… I will compensate by actually driving the car and taking responsibility for my own actions
and mine has android auto / apple car play…
in fact mine wins over a 6-7 year old mondeo or insignia in almost every aspect… there is a reason they are so revered and are going up in value - because they are genuinely excellent cars offering something few modern cars can match!
Your preference might be for the safety systems to not be there, but most buyers now expect them to be there, no matter how much disdain you show for them. You love your car and that's absolutely fine, but only bias is making you think that a car designed in the early 1990s could possibly match anything made more recently. As I said, that's nothing against the E39, but time and technology moves on.
It was a great car when it was launched, and I can see why people still like them, but to suggest that they are anything other than of their time is pure rose-tinted nostalgia.
Jon_S_Rally said:
akirk said:
presumably you don’t own one?
it is one of the few cars of that era to still feel modern, most people driving mine comment that it feels as new / taut as their more modern cars…
most of modern ‘safety’ kit is about replacing the intelligence of the driver with systems that don’t always work (such as automatic braking which is hugely flawed), so I am more than happy to not have those… I will compensate by actually driving the car and taking responsibility for my own actions
and mine has android auto / apple car play…
in fact mine wins over a 6-7 year old mondeo or insignia in almost every aspect… there is a reason they are so revered and are going up in value - because they are genuinely excellent cars offering something few modern cars can match!
No I don't, but a friend owned a 535i for a while and I drove it a few times. It was ok. Quite comfortable, sounded nice, went ok, but it 100% felt like a 20-year old car, which is exactly what it was at the time, and exactly what you would expect.it is one of the few cars of that era to still feel modern, most people driving mine comment that it feels as new / taut as their more modern cars…
most of modern ‘safety’ kit is about replacing the intelligence of the driver with systems that don’t always work (such as automatic braking which is hugely flawed), so I am more than happy to not have those… I will compensate by actually driving the car and taking responsibility for my own actions
and mine has android auto / apple car play…
in fact mine wins over a 6-7 year old mondeo or insignia in almost every aspect… there is a reason they are so revered and are going up in value - because they are genuinely excellent cars offering something few modern cars can match!
Your preference might be for the safety systems to not be there, but most buyers now expect them to be there, no matter how much disdain you show for them. You love your car and that's absolutely fine, but only bias is making you think that a car designed in the early 1990s could possibly match anything made more recently. As I said, that's nothing against the E39, but time and technology moves on.
It was a great car when it was launched, and I can see why people still like them, but to suggest that they are anything other than of their time is pure rose-tinted nostalgia.
But yes, I love an E39, but there's no way I'd take one over a current generation 5 series, ignoring the cost side of things.
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
I don't think it's quite so simple. Almost every measurable aspect of newer cars is better, but not everything. Ride quality being one. I appreciate some people like manual gearboxes but, not for me in what's supposed to be a relaxing semi-luxury saloon car.
But yes, I love an E39, but there's no way I'd take one over a current generation 5 series, ignoring the cost side of things.
Gearboxes are another place where a modern car will win; the ZF8 used in the latest cars blows the old ZF6 away, let alone the 5 speed auto boxes the E39 used.But yes, I love an E39, but there's no way I'd take one over a current generation 5 series, ignoring the cost side of things.
Taking screens etc out of the equation and the E39 will feel better built / more solid. I’m a fan of the E39 interior and think it still feels like a nice place to be. My E90 didn’t feel has solid as the E46 I previously owned (albeit it was a car that gave me less headaches).
Bispal said:
I did say 'felt' quicker. To me the E46 feels subjectively more lithe and alert, the E39 experience is diluted by weight. Yes the M5 I drove may have needed a service and been a bit leggy and the E46 was a very clean 16k mile car and like new. I am more interested in how the car feels than the actual speed it goes. I owned my M5 for 2 years over many miles but can't remember a single journey where the car exited me other than high speed motorway cruising which was always sullied by the 17MPG at the destination. The speeds attainable in the early noughties are not repeatable now so for me the E39 M5 is not as relevant as it was. Something smaller, lighter and more agile, appeals more. I am less concerned with 'seeing which way' one car or the other goes, as another comment pointed out, and more interested in how I feel driving a car. If someone goes quicker than me I could not care less, it bears no relevance to me and my experience of a car, good for them if it makes them feel better. TBH I am not an E46 fanboy either, the steering & gearchange are just as poor as the E39, there are much better cars than both of them, especially at silly prices. There are plenty of E39 fans and we are all different, I now prefer simple lightweight cars so a heavy complex car like the E39 is never going to be appealing to me but to plenty it will. Que sera, sera.....
I was only commenting on the straight line speed comparison, the rest is all more subjective.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff