Colin Pitchfork
Discussion
Dingu said:
No you haven’t.
Me: “Whilst we could likely all agree we prefer him behind bars”
Meaning you are unlikely to find anyone in here arguing for his freedom.
You: “You could only likely agree to prefer him behind bars.”
Which is not what I said.
Put down the internet, you have a weird obsession with the case which isn’t healthy. This thread needs closing.
Pure semantics. Could and likely suggests a very loose parameter for the opinion of anyone on here.Me: “Whilst we could likely all agree we prefer him behind bars”
Meaning you are unlikely to find anyone in here arguing for his freedom.
You: “You could only likely agree to prefer him behind bars.”
Which is not what I said.
Put down the internet, you have a weird obsession with the case which isn’t healthy. This thread needs closing.
"Meaning" is your interpretation of the words you used.
Others may see it differently.
My words mean what I interpret like yours.
I'll put down the internet when I'm ready granddad.
So why do you keep responding then.
You must have a weird obsession.
Why don't you take the initiative and put the internet down it's obviously affecting you adversely.
Volvo1956 said:
sebdangerfield said:
Absolutely none. I just wanted to see if we’re engaging in a debate worth having or just responding to someone having an ill informed rant. I’m quite clear now.
Yes of course you did. You couldn't lie straight in bed.Look pal, I know f all about parole boards. As it turns out you’ve proven you don’t now too.
Derek Smith said:
As for how I would treat dangerous offenders; I’ve already explained my point of view. Other countries generally do much better than England and Wales, so my feeling is we should review how they go about it, and try some, all, most or a few of their methods.
It's a real weakness of successive govts of all stripes that there is a real reluctance to accept than anyone could be better at anything than us, so we refuse to learn anything from anyone. Not just on this subject, but on prostitution, drugs, alcohol abuse, etc. The trouble with trying anything different with serious offenders, is that people like the OP, with he backing of the Daily Mail and right wing press in general, start screaming "soft on crime", which is the last thing any political party wants to be seen as. No one seems to care if we're effective on crime, or even successful on crime, so long as we're not soft on crime. So it becomes a badge of honour that we lock up more people for longer periods than any other W. European country, because it shows that we're not soft on crime.
The OP said near the start of the thread, "Society has been failed if we can't keep dangerous offenders locked up". But clearly he feels society hasn't failed if we use prisons as dumping grounds for problems we are hopeless at dealing with.
Volvo1956 said:
Robert Mawdesley deemed so dangerous he has his own glass cell deep in the bowels of Wakefield Prison.
I assume you mean Robert Maudsley?You also mentioned the Fourboys debacle, did you mean John Worboys, the black cab driver?
Just wondering if you deliberately misspelt their names or if in fact you are talking about two different people.
Boosted LS1 said:
Volvo, why are you obsessed with this?
I live in the next village to where Pitchfork lived and murdered. Given the number of people still living the area and affected by the crime and follow up, giving DNA samples and the like, feelings are reasonably strong.Basically, there is some relief and little surprise that he is back inside. No sign of obsession, though.
sebdangerfield said:
I thought you didn’t want to engage?
Look pal, I know f all about parole boards. As it turns out you’ve proven you don’t now too.
Quite obviously you don't. Look pal, I know f all about parole boards. As it turns out you’ve proven you don’t now too.
If that's the case then how can you judge the extent of my knowledge.
I have extensive knowledge in fact and either way far in excess of your zero knowledge.
Stick to subjects you know something about rather than make a fool of yourself.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
It's a real weakness of successive govts of all stripes that there is a real reluctance to accept than anyone could be better at anything than us, so we refuse to learn anything from anyone. Not just on this subject, but on prostitution, drugs, alcohol abuse, etc. The trouble with trying anything different with serious offenders, is that people like the OP, with he backing of the Daily Mail and right wing press in general, start screaming "soft on crime", which is the last thing any political party wants to be seen as. No one seems to care if we're effective on crime, or even successful on crime, so long as we're not soft on crime.
So it becomes a badge of honour that we lock up more people for longer periods than any other W. European country, because it shows that we're not soft on crime.
The OP said near the start of the thread, "Society has been failed if we can't keep dangerous offenders locked up". But clearly he feels society hasn't failed if we use prisons as dumping grounds for problems we are hopeless at dealing with.
What nonsense. The trouble with Liberal hand wringing Guardian readers is that as you state other countries have better results.So it becomes a badge of honour that we lock up more people for longer periods than any other W. European country, because it shows that we're not soft on crime.
The OP said near the start of the thread, "Society has been failed if we can't keep dangerous offenders locked up". But clearly he feels society hasn't failed if we use prisons as dumping grounds for problems we are hopeless at dealing with.
Could you give us the name of one of these countries you consider to be better performing and which of their policies would be beneficial to us.
None of your posts make any specific ideas we could use based on other country's successes.
So your suggesting that dangerous offenders shouldn't be dumped in the prison system.
So what would you do with them.
I agree that some offenders needn't be in prison but these are not the dangerous offenders as I'm describing in this thread.
Before someone is incarcerated you forget all other sanctions have been exhausted.
You are clouding the subject issue here by referring to prison as a dumping ground for problems we are hopeless with.
Stick to the core subject. Colin Pitchfork.
What do you suggest should be done with him.
Obviously releasing him has failed.
Please enlighten us to how you envisage one of your better performing countries would deal with him.
Also you are forgetting one important point.
When someone is locked up they can't commit offences be that burglary...theft...rape...or murder....so prison does work in that respect.
Do you have any data to support your claim that other countries perform better than the UK with say for example reoffending rates.
Monkeylegend said:
I assume you mean Robert Maudsley?
You also mentioned the Fourboys debacle, did you mean John Worboys, the black cab driver?
Just wondering if you deliberately misspelt their names or if in fact you are talking about two different people.
You assume right quite obviously.You also mentioned the Fourboys debacle, did you mean John Worboys, the black cab driver?
Just wondering if you deliberately misspelt their names or if in fact you are talking about two different people.
I'm not aware of anyone else housed in a glass cell in the bowels of Wakefield Prison.
Yes the black cab driver.
I'm not aware of anyone else causing such an uproar with the Parole Board.
Damn predictive text.
Quite obviously I was talking about two different people.
One called Maudsley and the other called Worboys.
Volvo1956 said:
Also you are forgetting one important point.
When someone is locked up they can't commit offences be that burglary...theft...rape...or murder....so prison does work in that respect.
Pedantically, Robert Maudsley (you may remember him from an earlier post) killed 3 times as many people in prison as outside.When someone is locked up they can't commit offences be that burglary...theft...rape...or murder....so prison does work in that respect.
Edit, because I got it wrong. It was murder outside, then manslaughter, murder, murder inside.
Edited by bigandclever on Saturday 20th November 22:46
Somewhatfoolish said:
Surely there's not enough information to make a judgement about this* one way or another?
*The recall to custody within our current system, that is.
There certainly is.*The recall to custody within our current system, that is.
Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Saturday 20th November 21:19
Pitchfork had the most stringent licence conditions ever imposed on an individual.
He doesn't have to commit a criminal offence to be recalled.
Whilst he's been in inside he's had no prey to target but on release he now has prey galore.
Obviously with his sexual depraved urges he couldn't resist.
eldar said:
I live in the next village to where Pitchfork lived and murdered. Given the number of people still living the area and affected by the crime and follow up, giving DNA samples and the like, feelings are reasonably strong.
Basically, there is some relief and little surprise that he is back inside. No sign of obsession, though.
Reasonably strong feelings!!??Basically, there is some relief and little surprise that he is back inside. No sign of obsession, though.
Some relief!!!???
They must be a totally different set of people than those who expressed their emotions when it was announced he was to be released.
I assume you are also referring to the families of the victims...I'm sure their feelings must be reasonably strong and expressing some relief.
bigandclever said:
Pedantically, Robert Maudsley (you may remember him from an earlier post) killed 3 times as many people in prison as outside (and if we’re being really pedantic, all his murders were in prison; it was manslaughter that got him put inside in the first place).
Quite right. He did society a favour and saved further victims and also saved society a great deal of resources that could be put to better use.Volvo1956 said:
bigandclever said:
Pedantically, Robert Maudsley (you may remember him from an earlier post) killed 3 times as many people in prison as outside (and if we’re being really pedantic, all his murders were in prison; it was manslaughter that got him put inside in the first place).
Quite right. He did society a favour and saved further victims and also saved society a great deal of resources that could be put to better use.Final comment.
Pickstock/ Thorpe should never have been released.
A decision that was seriously challenged but ignored.
The objectors to his release have now been proved right.
So I for one sincerely hope he remains incarcerated for the rest of his days nut I won't hold my breath.
Like some others I firmly believe he will murder again and his recent behaviour and recall to prison tends to support that view.
Pickstock/ Thorpe should never have been released.
A decision that was seriously challenged but ignored.
The objectors to his release have now been proved right.
So I for one sincerely hope he remains incarcerated for the rest of his days nut I won't hold my breath.
Like some others I firmly believe he will murder again and his recent behaviour and recall to prison tends to support that view.
Volvo1956 said:
Final comment.
Pickstock/ Thorpe should never have been released.
A decision that was seriously challenged but ignored.
The objectors to his release have now been proved right.
So I for one sincerely hope he remains incarcerated for the rest of his days nut I won't hold my breath.
Like some others I firmly believe he will murder again and his recent behaviour and recall to prison tends to support that view.
Which one’s Pickstock? Pickstock/ Thorpe should never have been released.
A decision that was seriously challenged but ignored.
The objectors to his release have now been proved right.
So I for one sincerely hope he remains incarcerated for the rest of his days nut I won't hold my breath.
Like some others I firmly believe he will murder again and his recent behaviour and recall to prison tends to support that view.
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