Bus gate penalty notice

[SS2.]

Skodillac said:

SS2. said:

havoc said:

dhutch said:

this bus gate in question looks obvious and well signed to me.

Saleen836 said:

Southampton Council are rubbing their hands with how much they are raking in with one of their bus gates!

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/25174030.16-000-f...

Maybe obvious to dhutch isn't obvious to a lot of other people...

I know that area.

I'm by no means a fan of the scheme, but that gate is well signed with at least two advanced warning boards before the bus gate signs themselves. SCC also allowed a decent amount of time between the gate being installed and enforcement commencing to allow locals to become familiar with the scheme.

When I was last there (on foot), I was astonished at just how many vehicles ploughed on through without a care in the world - nose to tail at times.

I'm genuinely surprised the number of drivers caught since the start of the year is 'only' 16,000.

This begs a few questions. Has the bus service measurably improved since the scheme started, and if so how? And, if 16,000 drivers have gone through this bus gate, has that caused a measurable detriment to the bus service in that time? If not, what's the bus gate for?

Difficult to say, on both counts.

Portland Terrace was never that busy anyway, so I doubt bus drivers have seen much of a change - certainly not with 4,000 non-buses going through each day !

SCC seem intent on ruining the city with bizarre and unwarranted traffic schemes. For instance, they've introduced 20mph zones in non-residential areas where there was already traffic calming in place.

They also introduced a 24/7 bus lane on one of the main dual-carriageways into the city centre. This caused complete carnage on surrounding roads for miles with SCC quickly reinstating both lanes for all vehicles, claiming the bus lane was only ever intended to be 'a trial'.

And not forgetting another Bus Gate scheme in the city which had to be scrapped after surrounding (quiet) residential roads became impassable when the masses tried to use them as rat runs.

For a council which is nearly bankrupt, they do like throwing their money away. And perhaps therein lies a clue as to what the council hopes to gain from bus gates and the like..

[Vasco]

Amazing that people are driving around with so little undertanding of the road signs in use across much of the country.
Very depressing quality of drivers.
When did most drivers bother with keeping up with the Highway Code?
Nno excuses.

[Pica-Pica]

I recognise and understand the significance of the blue sign, but a ‘No entry except buses’ sign is better, because although bus drivers will be familiar with their route and its quirks, visiting motorists are more likely to correctly respond to a ‘No Entry’ sign.

[bad company]

Vasco said:

Amazing that people are driving around with so little undertanding of the road signs in use across much of the country.
Very depressing quality of drivers.
When did most drivers bother with keeping up with the Highway Code?
Nno excuses.

The signs confuse a lot of drivers - fact. Why not use a red No Entry sign with an except busses addition? That’d be clear for everyone.

[tigger1]

Some of those Nottingham ones - bottom 3 pics - the reality now is actually even worse than in those pictures, and STILL folk drive up there occasionally!

[thumb]https://i2-prod.nottinghampost.com/incoming...

Stick Legs said:

Anyone who has been around roads shared with trams will know how obvious the signage is, because it isn’t a cash cow & actually matters so the OP has some sympathy from me.

I’ll post these for the amusement of the group:

[dhutch]

tigger1 said:

Some of those Nottingham ones - bottom 3 pics - the reality now is actually even worse than in those pictures, and STILL folk drive up there occasionally!

Mmmm, well you would have to be fairly special to drive up that wouldnt you!

[dhutch]

Pica-Pica said:

I recognise and understand the significance of the blue sign, but a ‘No entry except buses’ sign is better, because although bus drivers will be familiar with their route and its quirks, visiting motorists are more likely to correctly respond to a ‘No Entry’ sign.

Agree.

[The Gauge]

Vasco said:

Amazing that people are driving around with so little undertanding of the road signs in use across much of the country.
Very depressing quality of drivers.
When did most drivers bother with keeping up with the Highway Code?
Nno excuses.

Agreed.

bad company said:

The signs confuse a lot of drivers - fact. Why not use a red No Entry sign with an except busses addition? That’d be clear for everyone.

That then needs two signs. What is confusing about a blue bus gate sign? To drivers with an ounce of common sense the blue bus gate sign is as clear in its meaning as a no entry sign is, I don't understand what isn't clear about it.

[otolith]

Pica-Pica said:

I recognise and understand the significance of the blue sign, but a ‘No entry except buses’ sign is better, because although bus drivers will be familiar with their route and its quirks, visiting motorists are more likely to correctly respond to a ‘No Entry’ sign.

Yeah, but think of the lost revenue.

[bad company]

The Gauge said:

That then needs two signs. What is confusing about a blue bus gate sign? To drivers with an ounce of common sense the blue bus gate sign is as clear in its meaning as a no entry sign is, I don't understand what isn't clear about it.

Which looks clearer to you?

[havoc]

The Gauge said:

To drivers with an ounce of common sense

There's your mistake right there.

On the roads nowadays you've got:-
- Drivers who passed their test 20/30/40+ years ago pre 'theory test', and who mostly haven't looked at the highway code since.
- Drivers who come from other countries, and while they've ostensibly passed a UK test may not understand all of the nuances here.
- Drivers who don't give a st and think they know it all.
- Drivers who are distracted by their phone, by the kids in the back, by their best mate in the passenger seat, or just by "ooh, squirrel"
- ...and everyone in-between. And the government doesn't give a single st about any of them once DVLA have issued that licence.

In all categories you'll have people with good memories and people with bad memories. You'll have people who get it instantly and people who were voted "least likely to complete a coherent sentence" at school.


Road furniture, even moreso than road laws, needs to cater for the lowest common denominator. At least until continuous driver education or at-interval re-training/re-testing comes in.

[2020vision]

bad company said:

The Gauge said:

That then needs two signs. What is confusing about a blue bus gate sign? To drivers with an ounce of common sense the blue bus gate sign is as clear in its meaning as a no entry sign is, I don't understand what isn't clear about it.

Which looks clearer to you?

Both!

Why are there suggestions to compromise the use of the correct sign to compensate for incompetence?

The OP’s wife needs some rehabilitation. I would say she is now well aware of the sign she missed and probably of others that are similar. Job done.

[InitialDave]

If people are clearly failing to understand signage in quite large numbers, even if it's the technically correct type, changing it to one that is less commonly misinterpreted would be a good idea.

[The Gauge]

bad company said:

The Gauge said:

That then needs two signs. What is confusing about a blue bus gate sign? To drivers with an ounce of common sense the blue bus gate sign is as clear in its meaning as a no entry sign is, I don't understand what isn't clear about it.

Which looks clearer to you?

Both are perfectly clear in their meaning. You are embarrassing yourself if you are saying that the blue sign is unclear. I really don't know how it could be clearer. In fact I find it staggering that you don't find it clear!!!

[Vasco]

bad company said:

The Gauge said:

That then needs two signs. What is confusing about a blue bus gate sign? To drivers with an ounce of common sense the blue bus gate sign is as clear in its meaning as a no entry sign is, I don't understand what isn't clear about it.

Which looks clearer to you?

They're both totally clear in their meaning, difficult to believe that anyone can misread them.
It's 99% more likely that they aren't properly reading the road and/or haven't read the Highway Code for decades.

[SS2.]

bad company said:

The Gauge said:

That then needs two signs. What is confusing about a blue bus gate sign? To drivers with an ounce of common sense the blue bus gate sign is as clear in its meaning as a no entry sign is, I don't understand what isn't clear about it.

Which looks clearer to you?

I don't think the regulations permit an 'Except Cycles, Buses and Motorcycles' plate to be used with a No Entry sign (Diagram 616).

[bad company]

The Gauge said:

bad company said:

The Gauge said:

That then needs two signs. What is confusing about a blue bus gate sign? To drivers with an ounce of common sense the blue bus gate sign is as clear in its meaning as a no entry sign is, I don't understand what isn't clear about it.

Which looks clearer to you?

Both are perfectly clear in their meaning. You are embarrassing yourself if you are saying that the blue sign is unclear. I really don't know how it could be clearer. In fact I find it staggering that you don't find it clear!!!

No, they’re not both ‘perfectly clear in their meaning’. One is a soft blue with images of some vehicles. The other is bright red with a clear white bar.

I’m not saying that drivers shouldn’t know the meaning of both but one is a lot clearer.

[FiF]

A big part of the problem is that too many drivers don't know or have forgotten the basic rules around signs. See below from the Know your Traffic Signs book. Signs are the language of the road, used correctly.