BBC Womens pay gap
Discussion
sidicks said:
Prove that all the evidence around you can be ignored if you 'adjust for social pressures, external influences etc'...
You asked beforehand for proof that ‘all things being equal’ that men are paid more than women for the same job. So you think this was a reasonable request?I’m just asking for the same thing. That, all things being equal, prove that men and women will make different choices regarding their career. I don’t think they will.
I’m being facetious here to prove the point, because social pressures start from the moment we are born, the controlled experiment to do this has not been and essentially cannot be performed so it can’t be proven that men and women will make different choices, we can only theorise.
But these theories are presented as fact by people who want to dismiss the gender pay gap and the forms of gender discrimination that women face.
cookie118 said:
You asked beforehand for proof that ‘all things being equal’ that men are paid more than women for the same job. So you think this was a reasonable request?
I’m just asking for the same thing. That, all things being equal, prove that men and women will make different choices regarding their career. I don’t think they will.
I’m being facetious here to prove the point, because social pressures start from the moment we are born, the controlled experiment to do this has not been and essentially cannot be performed so it can’t be proven that men and women will make different choices, we can only theorise.
But these theories are presented as fact by people who want to dismiss the gender pay gap and the forms of gender discrimination that women face.
There is no gender pay gap (at least by any sensible definition).I’m just asking for the same thing. That, all things being equal, prove that men and women will make different choices regarding their career. I don’t think they will.
I’m being facetious here to prove the point, because social pressures start from the moment we are born, the controlled experiment to do this has not been and essentially cannot be performed so it can’t be proven that men and women will make different choices, we can only theorise.
But these theories are presented as fact by people who want to dismiss the gender pay gap and the forms of gender discrimination that women face.
In the animal kingdom don't mothers (typically) tend to spend more time with the offspring, mammals in particular?
cookie118 said:
But these theories are presented as fact by people who want to dismiss the gender pay gap and the forms of gender discrimination that women face.
Is anyone dismissing the gender pay gap? As defined, it exists. That is a matter of fact.What is being dismissed is the deliberate misrepresentaion of the gender pay gap to further the claim that women are discriminated against in the workplace and paid less than men for doing the same job.
sidicks said:
There is no gender pay gap.
I think you’re getting your pay gaps mixed up.An equal pay gap is illegal and is based on the same renumeration for the same or equivalent work.
A gender pay gap is simply when one gender is paid more than the other on average across the board, and there is one as the figures show.
cookie118 said:
I think you’re getting your pay gaps mixed up.
An equal pay gap is illegal and is based on the same renumeration for the same or equivalent work.
A gender pay gap is simply when one gender is paid more than the other on average across the board, and there is one as the figures show.
I think you're misunderstanding what 'by any sensible definition' means.An equal pay gap is illegal and is based on the same renumeration for the same or equivalent work.
A gender pay gap is simply when one gender is paid more than the other on average across the board, and there is one as the figures show.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Is anyone dismissing the gender pay gap? As defined, it exists. That is a matter of fact.
What is being dismissed is the deliberate misrepresentaion of the gender pay gap to further the claim that women are discriminated against in the workplace and paid less than men for doing the same job.
No-one is furthering the claim that women are paid less than men for the same job, at least not that I’ve seen.What is being dismissed is the deliberate misrepresentaion of the gender pay gap to further the claim that women are discriminated against in the workplace and paid less than men for doing the same job.
Women are discriminated against in the workplace, that is indisputable too. In fact it doesn’t take long to search on pistonheads and find people openly admitting they wouldn’t hire young/newly engaged women.
cookie118 said:
No-one is furthering the claim that women are paid less than men for the same job, at least not that I’ve seen.
Women are discriminated against in the workplace, that is indisputable too. In fact it doesn’t take long to search on pistonheads and find people openly admitting they wouldn’t hire young/newly engaged women.
Discriminating against women because they make exactly the same choices as men or because they make different choices than men?Women are discriminated against in the workplace, that is indisputable too. In fact it doesn’t take long to search on pistonheads and find people openly admitting they wouldn’t hire young/newly engaged women.
PurpleMoonlight said:
cookie118 said:
No-one is furthering the claim that women are paid less than men for the same job, at least not that I’ve seen.
I would argue the Government and national media are.https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-gender-pay-g...
cookie118 said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
cookie118 said:
No-one is furthering the claim that women are paid less than men for the same job, at least not that I’ve seen.
I would argue the Government and national media are.https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-gender-pay-g...
Oddly its got gender pay gap all over it (at least 4 references that I can see) - including links to explain what is the gender pay gap.
If that's not conflating the two then I don't know what is.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43688667
NDA said:
This echoes my experience too - I would say 90% of my friend's wives are either not working at all or doing the bare minimum to enable them to be at home as much as possible. The only wives who are still full-time are either doctors or lawyers. Not sure what this means! 
Absolutely the same for me. One is a doctor and one is a radiologist, oh, and one a teachers helper too at the school where my son attends as do her two boys, mind you, that may be part time or 9-3pm thinking about it. cookie118 said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
cookie118 said:
Equal if you adjust for the above.
Yeah, okay.cookie118 said:
You asked beforehand for proof that ‘all things being equal’ that men are paid more than women for the same job. So you think this was a reasonable request?
I’m just asking for the same thing. That, all things being equal, prove that men and women will make different choices regarding their career. I don’t think they will.
I’m being facetious here to prove the point, because social pressures start from the moment we are born, the controlled experiment to do this has not been and essentially cannot be performed so it can’t be proven that men and women will make different choices, we can only theorise.
But these theories are presented as fact by people who want to dismiss the gender pay gap and the forms of gender discrimination that women face.
You are also missing one very important factor that you can't change. I’m just asking for the same thing. That, all things being equal, prove that men and women will make different choices regarding their career. I don’t think they will.
I’m being facetious here to prove the point, because social pressures start from the moment we are born, the controlled experiment to do this has not been and essentially cannot be performed so it can’t be proven that men and women will make different choices, we can only theorise.
But these theories are presented as fact by people who want to dismiss the gender pay gap and the forms of gender discrimination that women face.
Only women can give birth.
That, by its very nature, will always mean we can never be truly equal.
cookie118 said:
No-one is furthering the claim that women are paid less than men for the same job, at least not that I’ve seen.
Women are discriminated against in the workplace, that is indisputable too. In fact it doesn’t take long to search on pistonheads and find people openly admitting they wouldn’t hire young/newly engaged women.
I know of 2 HR women in different companies that would rather not employ women in relationships aged 27-35. They are looking after the interests of the business. The law has put the businesses in this predicament and I'm not sure what should be done.Women are discriminated against in the workplace, that is indisputable too. In fact it doesn’t take long to search on pistonheads and find people openly admitting they wouldn’t hire young/newly engaged women.
Zoobeef said:
cookie118 said:
No-one is furthering the claim that women are paid less than men for the same job, at least not that I’ve seen.
Women are discriminated against in the workplace, that is indisputable too. In fact it doesn’t take long to search on pistonheads and find people openly admitting they wouldn’t hire young/newly engaged women.
I know of 2 HR women in different companies that would rather not employ women in relationships aged 27-35. They are looking after the interests of the business. The law has put the businesses in this predicament and I'm not sure what should be done.Women are discriminated against in the workplace, that is indisputable too. In fact it doesn’t take long to search on pistonheads and find people openly admitting they wouldn’t hire young/newly engaged women.
Would it be better for young women to not have job protection forced on them?
Would they then get employed in 'better' roles?
Should having kids be classed as a lifestyle choice, only do it when you feel you are financially ready to do so knowing that your job will have to be reapplied for afterwards, that is if the role has not be taken already?
cookie118 said:
The Government is portraying the gender pay gap as a form of discrimination which needs to be eradicated.It isn't. It's just a reflection of the different careers men and women choose.
I find it farcical that the Governments solution is to encourage more women to do jobs currently undertaken by men. Well so s
t Sherlock ...PurpleMoonlight said:
The Government is portraying the gender pay gap as a form of discrimination which needs to be eradicated.
It isn't. It's just a reflection of the different careers men and women chose.
I find it farcical that the Governments solution is to encourage more women to do jobs currently undertaken by men. Well so st Sherlock ...
But they don't "choose" them. It's social conditioning that forces them into these 'choices'.It isn't. It's just a reflection of the different careers men and women chose.
I find it farcical that the Governments solution is to encourage more women to do jobs currently undertaken by men. Well so s
t Sherlock ...Apparently.
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