Engine rebuild cost
Discussion
Hi,
I'm looking into Radicals as track cars (no racing intended at this time). As part of my due diligence I contacted Radical to ask for costs on engine rebuild. Jamie, the nice guy at Radical quickly provided that info:
SR3, 1500cc/1340cc engine; £2,500 to £3,500.
SR8, 2700cc engine; £4,500 to £5,500
Here is my question to guys who actually did a rebuild: have your engine rebuild costs been in the range as per above or have you experienced unexpected additional costs? If so, then it would be great if you could provide details (what was it? how much?)
Also: how long did you actually run the engine before rebuild? the 30 (or 40) hours as recommended or different? What's your usage profile?
Thanks in advance
Dierk
Edit: fixed typo
I'm looking into Radicals as track cars (no racing intended at this time). As part of my due diligence I contacted Radical to ask for costs on engine rebuild. Jamie, the nice guy at Radical quickly provided that info:
SR3, 1500cc/1340cc engine; £2,500 to £3,500.
SR8, 2700cc engine; £4,500 to £5,500
Here is my question to guys who actually did a rebuild: have your engine rebuild costs been in the range as per above or have you experienced unexpected additional costs? If so, then it would be great if you could provide details (what was it? how much?)
Also: how long did you actually run the engine before rebuild? the 30 (or 40) hours as recommended or different? What's your usage profile?
Thanks in advance
Dierk
Edit: fixed typo
Edited by Dierk on Saturday 24th September 10:44
Never having had an engine rebuilt I comment on the costs.
What I would say is as long as you are not wanting to run the cars in official Radical competition three would be no need to Powertec (or whatever they are called theses days) and as such the cost could potentially be reduced, it would also be questionable about the 30 hour limit and a more realistic longer limit be used, especially if careful data logging was used to guard against and moniter too many over rev situations?
It appears that a lot of people on here treat these cars and engines with undue mystique. Perhaps this is necessary if competing in the main strictly controlled championships, but otherwise?...
What I would say is as long as you are not wanting to run the cars in official Radical competition three would be no need to Powertec (or whatever they are called theses days) and as such the cost could potentially be reduced, it would also be questionable about the 30 hour limit and a more realistic longer limit be used, especially if careful data logging was used to guard against and moniter too many over rev situations?
It appears that a lot of people on here treat these cars and engines with undue mystique. Perhaps this is necessary if competing in the main strictly controlled championships, but otherwise?...
If that's what Jamie says, then that's what order it'll be; presumably for the basic refresh, such as rings, bearings, gaskets etc; you need to find out about whether inclusive of VAT, engine out and back in etc. If you'll be taking it out in Germany and sending it back to Peterborough, obviously there's a fairly appreciable carriage cost involved there. Any extra-overs are likely to be transmission related - the weak point of any bike engine - and they can be appreciable.
If you are asking how much at all, perhaps the SR8 is not for you - to be honest, I can't really think why anyone (other than someone very wealthy and rightly indulgent - I would be!) would want or need an 8 for trackdays; any 1340 or 1500 engined Radical is 'truly sufficient' for that.
Relative to trackdaying, the lifing hours relates to the 'proportional contribution' warranty side of things as much as anything else; unless it's changed, 30 hours for a 1500, 40 hours for a 1340 & 2700. I hear 100 hours for the new Ecoboost SL. Remember these are running hours - like including when you're warming it up, not just when you're all temperatures up to speed and giving it the big welly out on track. In my humble opinion, people worry far too much about that Warranty - I regard it as a useful fallback (and pretty well unique for a race car engine) if there's something amiss with some component that fails really early, as is usually the case with such a component.
My own experience with a properly maintained 1299 used solely for trackdays, is that if Lady Luck is your friend, you'll do way better than that. Ours had something like 100 hours on it, the compressions were still truly excellent and it was still 100% good to go. The result of trackdays being way gentler than racing on Rads, especially without full bore standing starts and gunning it to the wire in every gear all of the time. A lot of the time, a trackday is akin to a Sunday Drive for a Radical.
Use 'Search' on here and you'll be able to find a lot of threads that focus on or mention in passing, engine hours.
If you are asking how much at all, perhaps the SR8 is not for you - to be honest, I can't really think why anyone (other than someone very wealthy and rightly indulgent - I would be!) would want or need an 8 for trackdays; any 1340 or 1500 engined Radical is 'truly sufficient' for that.
Relative to trackdaying, the lifing hours relates to the 'proportional contribution' warranty side of things as much as anything else; unless it's changed, 30 hours for a 1500, 40 hours for a 1340 & 2700. I hear 100 hours for the new Ecoboost SL. Remember these are running hours - like including when you're warming it up, not just when you're all temperatures up to speed and giving it the big welly out on track. In my humble opinion, people worry far too much about that Warranty - I regard it as a useful fallback (and pretty well unique for a race car engine) if there's something amiss with some component that fails really early, as is usually the case with such a component.
My own experience with a properly maintained 1299 used solely for trackdays, is that if Lady Luck is your friend, you'll do way better than that. Ours had something like 100 hours on it, the compressions were still truly excellent and it was still 100% good to go. The result of trackdays being way gentler than racing on Rads, especially without full bore standing starts and gunning it to the wire in every gear all of the time. A lot of the time, a trackday is akin to a Sunday Drive for a Radical.
Use 'Search' on here and you'll be able to find a lot of threads that focus on or mention in passing, engine hours.
I think that refresh costs can easily look bigger!
I would guess that the quoted costs are not inc VAT, so 3,500 becomes 4,200.
I had quite a big build of my clubsport engine some years back which included a lot of bits (engine and box) and a new case as it was way out of tolerance! 5k all in.
I know it's a kwakker, but it gives an idea.
As for hours, you pays yer money and takes yer choice. RPE say the engines will last longer under track day usage than race so take the 30/40 hours and add 50%, 100%, dunno. Look after it well with proper warming and oil changes, monitor it's health with leakdown and OP checks.
Whatever you do, don't drop a valve...it's an expensive way to go!
Bert
I would guess that the quoted costs are not inc VAT, so 3,500 becomes 4,200.
I had quite a big build of my clubsport engine some years back which included a lot of bits (engine and box) and a new case as it was way out of tolerance! 5k all in.
I know it's a kwakker, but it gives an idea.
As for hours, you pays yer money and takes yer choice. RPE say the engines will last longer under track day usage than race so take the 30/40 hours and add 50%, 100%, dunno. Look after it well with proper warming and oil changes, monitor it's health with leakdown and OP checks.
Whatever you do, don't drop a valve...it's an expensive way to go!
Bert
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