High level brake light, mot item or not ?
Discussion
Then ,don't go to a certain fast fit tyre chain that's kwik to do anything .I took mine in for an Mot ( price was very low) ,and number of fails for this was high . Mine also came out with reports of a nail in one rear tyre - again nothing found ,but the unused spare had one in . On the brake test ,it almost jumped off test kit on brake test .
Its a little bit vague in the manual, but the wording is..
"Additional stop lamps fitted and connected must be tested. Where extra lamps are fitted and there is doubt as to whether they are connected, the benefit of this doubt should be given to the presenter."
My view is that if they work then they should work properly and be in good order, if it doesn't light up then I have no proof that it's connected so I'll just advise it's not working, hope this helps.
"Additional stop lamps fitted and connected must be tested. Where extra lamps are fitted and there is doubt as to whether they are connected, the benefit of this doubt should be given to the presenter."
My view is that if they work then they should work properly and be in good order, if it doesn't light up then I have no proof that it's connected so I'll just advise it's not working, hope this helps.
A number of years ago I was pulled in to one of those random vehicle stop/checks on the way to work (big layby, three or four marked cars and a dozen or so officers).
I was in my old '88 MR2, so was always likely to get picked! BiB did all the checks, three, wipers/washers lights etc, and found I had a reversing light out - MR2 has two, one side worked t'other didn't. Didn't get a producer or anything but was advised by BiB that "if a light's fitted, it must work" and was instructed to replace said bulb asap.
Can't comment on MoT, but I would imagine failure of hi-level brake light would be construction & use, and could get the attention of the police.
I was in my old '88 MR2, so was always likely to get picked! BiB did all the checks, three, wipers/washers lights etc, and found I had a reversing light out - MR2 has two, one side worked t'other didn't. Didn't get a producer or anything but was advised by BiB that "if a light's fitted, it must work" and was instructed to replace said bulb asap.
Can't comment on MoT, but I would imagine failure of hi-level brake light would be construction & use, and could get the attention of the police.
Road Vehicles Lighting Regs 1989 requires upkeep of brake stop lamps:
Maintenance of lamps, reflectors, rear markings and devices
23.—(1) No person shall use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road a vehicle unless every lamp, reflector, rear marking and device to which this paragraph applies is in good working order and, in the case of a lamp, clean.
(2) (b)every–
(i)stop lamp,
(3) Paragraph (2) does not apply to–
(c)a defective lamp, reflector, dim-dip device or headlamp levelling device on a vehicle in use on a road between sunrise and sunset, if any such lamp, reflector or device became defective during the journey which is in progress or if arrangements have been made to remedy the defect with all reasonable expedition
BUT
the requirement in relation to number required states
SCHEDULE 12
PART I
Requirements relating to obligatory stop lamps and to optional stop lamps to the extent specified in part ii
1. Number– Two (one if pre 1971)
it then goes on to say additionals may be fitted
PART II Requirements relating to optional stop lamps
(c) in the case of a stop lamp fitted to a motor vehicle not being a motor bicycle, first used on or after 1st April 1991 either centrally or in such a manner as to project light through the rear window the intensity of the light emitted to the rear of the vehicle shall be not less than 20 candelas and not more than 60 candelas when measured from directly behind the centre of the lamp in a direction parallel to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle.
So it seems that Reg 23 is specific in that, despite law only requires two lamps and extra are optional, those fitted have to be maintained otherwise offence.
Bearing in mind MOT does not allow unlawful items then I would presume any extra not working gives grounds for MOT refusal.
This is backed up by the fact that the MOT Testers Manual state in relation to Stop lamps:
This inspection applies to all stop lamps fitted and gives the reason for a rejection as:
Inoperative or less than 50% of the light sources illuminating.
Dvd
Maintenance of lamps, reflectors, rear markings and devices
23.—(1) No person shall use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road a vehicle unless every lamp, reflector, rear marking and device to which this paragraph applies is in good working order and, in the case of a lamp, clean.
(2) (b)every–
(i)stop lamp,
(3) Paragraph (2) does not apply to–
(c)a defective lamp, reflector, dim-dip device or headlamp levelling device on a vehicle in use on a road between sunrise and sunset, if any such lamp, reflector or device became defective during the journey which is in progress or if arrangements have been made to remedy the defect with all reasonable expedition
BUT
the requirement in relation to number required states
SCHEDULE 12
PART I
Requirements relating to obligatory stop lamps and to optional stop lamps to the extent specified in part ii
1. Number– Two (one if pre 1971)
it then goes on to say additionals may be fitted
PART II Requirements relating to optional stop lamps
(c) in the case of a stop lamp fitted to a motor vehicle not being a motor bicycle, first used on or after 1st April 1991 either centrally or in such a manner as to project light through the rear window the intensity of the light emitted to the rear of the vehicle shall be not less than 20 candelas and not more than 60 candelas when measured from directly behind the centre of the lamp in a direction parallel to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle.
So it seems that Reg 23 is specific in that, despite law only requires two lamps and extra are optional, those fitted have to be maintained otherwise offence.
Bearing in mind MOT does not allow unlawful items then I would presume any extra not working gives grounds for MOT refusal.
This is backed up by the fact that the MOT Testers Manual state in relation to Stop lamps:
This inspection applies to all stop lamps fitted and gives the reason for a rejection as:
Inoperative or less than 50% of the light sources illuminating.
Dvd
Many thanks chaps, only the lense was present on my daughters "new to her" car, the entire back was missing.
It is boot mounted, and the car was issued with a nice new MOT for her (NOT done by the selling garage).
Hence my question, they are replacing it next monday, along with rectifying my other gripes, another two of those also being mot items I believe ...... the handbrake is effing useless, and they fitted a new battery, but it is the wrong size, and it isn't held down (the "fitter" left the bolt and holding plate next to the battery).
It is boot mounted, and the car was issued with a nice new MOT for her (NOT done by the selling garage).
Hence my question, they are replacing it next monday, along with rectifying my other gripes, another two of those also being mot items I believe ...... the handbrake is effing useless, and they fitted a new battery, but it is the wrong size, and it isn't held down (the "fitter" left the bolt and holding plate next to the battery).
As said above, an optional brake light not working IS an MOT fail if it's connected. But, if there's any doubt, the tester has to assume it's not connected. As an example, if you had a high level LED light where one single LED lit up then it would be a fail because it's obviously connected and faulty but, with the same light, if no light at all comes out, they have to assume it's not connected and would pass (hopefully with an advise).
On the other items:
Handbrake effing useless: the pass efficiency for hadnbrake on cars with dual circuit brakes is, frankly, ridiculous (16 % efficiency). That equates to stopping from 30mph in about 56 metres, or 8 seconds from when you apply it! They should be a hell of a lot better than that but if they can do that then it's an MOT pass cos that's what the rules say
Wrong size battery and not secure: Wrong size battery isn't a fail and never has been. Despite popular myths, battery insecure was never a fail until this year. So, unless the MOT was done after the New Year, it would have been a pass. Even now, there's nothing to specify how it's secured - they could strap it in with bailer twine and that'd do as far as the MOT is concerned!
On the other items:
Handbrake effing useless: the pass efficiency for hadnbrake on cars with dual circuit brakes is, frankly, ridiculous (16 % efficiency). That equates to stopping from 30mph in about 56 metres, or 8 seconds from when you apply it! They should be a hell of a lot better than that but if they can do that then it's an MOT pass cos that's what the rules say
Wrong size battery and not secure: Wrong size battery isn't a fail and never has been. Despite popular myths, battery insecure was never a fail until this year. So, unless the MOT was done after the New Year, it would have been a pass. Even now, there's nothing to specify how it's secured - they could strap it in with bailer twine and that'd do as far as the MOT is concerned!
It was mot'd friday, so the battery counts I guess.
The dealer has agreed to put right my "gripes", so I'm happy.
I know everyone thinks this, but they do seem to be more concerned with number plates and emmisions on the mot, rather than stuff that actually matters !
The spare wheel is missing, as well as the high level brake light, he's doing both of those ..... bless him.
He's also sorting the battery.
The dealer has agreed to put right my "gripes", so I'm happy.
I know everyone thinks this, but they do seem to be more concerned with number plates and emmisions on the mot, rather than stuff that actually matters !
The spare wheel is missing, as well as the high level brake light, he's doing both of those ..... bless him.
He's also sorting the battery.
Dwight VanDriver said:
...
This is backed up by the fact that the MOT Testers Manual state in relation to Stop lamps:
This inspection applies to all stop lamps fitted and gives the reason for a rejection as:
Inoperative or less than 50% of the light sources illuminating.
Dvd
If 'light source' is interpreted to mean 'bulb', what if those 'bulbs' are LEDs with multiple elements. Is each of those elements a 'light source'? Logically they are.This is backed up by the fact that the MOT Testers Manual state in relation to Stop lamps:
This inspection applies to all stop lamps fitted and gives the reason for a rejection as:
Inoperative or less than 50% of the light sources illuminating.
Dvd
Streaky
streaky said:
If 'light source' is interpreted to mean 'bulb', what if those 'bulbs' are LEDs with multiple elements. Is each of those elements a 'light source'? Logically they are.
Streaky
With LED lights they're treated as a single unit and count as working if at least 50% of the individual light sources are working. So an 18 LED unit with 9 failed is ok, but with 10 failed isn't.Streaky
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