RE: PH Carpool: Porsche 911 Carrera RS (964)

RE: PH Carpool: Porsche 911 Carrera RS (964)

Monday 30th January 2012

PH Carpool: Porsche 911 Carrera RS (964)

You'll be jealous enough at the car but wait until you hear what he paid for it...



Name:
Joe911

Car:
Porsche 964 RS Lightweight 1992

Owned since:
February 1997

Previously owned:
TVR Griffith (4.0 and 500), Porsche 3.2 Carrera

First of many 'ring visits came in first week
First of many 'ring visits came in first week
Why I bought it:
I turned to Porsche after the unpredictability of TVR ownership became untenable. Then my 3.2 Carrera was written off in Italy following the discovery of a significant gap between my ego and my ability. I had admired a friend's RS and wanted one (more than life itself) but RHD cars were £42K and well out of my price range.

Then I discovered LHD cars were, in those days, unwanted and it was possible to get a LHD RS for vaguely sensible money. I found a German import being advertised in the Sunday Times and snapped it up - 20,000km and immaculate at £29K. Within a week of ownership I went to Switzerland and on the way back she led me to a small village in the Eifel, which would become virtually a second home.

What I wish I'd known:
I wish I'd known what values would do - I would have got a second mortgage and bought several of them!

The RS spends plenty of time where it belongs
The RS spends plenty of time where it belongs
Things I love:
The engine is really free-revving and smooth, making blipped downshifts rewarding. It is without the outright power of the modern equivalents but still incredibly usable and holds its own in most company. The gearing is just perfect and the sound inspiring, though now muted somewhat to make UK track days possible. The UK RHD cars mostly have power steering, though the German cars like mine mostly were without (but the long range fuel tank is generally fitted). The steering is heavy at low speeds, but this improves when properly on the move and for me feels perfectly weighted, giving you just the feedback you need. It takes some physical effort to drive fast - after a few laps you really know you've been working hard with no air con!

And he complains about the tyre wear...
And he complains about the tyre wear...
Things I hate:
Filling up that big fuel tank is not a pleasure - 92 litres of super at £1.50, yikes! Driving through London (to get to a track of course - why else use the public road?) is a chore; the potholes and speed humps are not kind to RS suspension. On a road trip to France my wife asked me to pull over at the side of the road so she could change to a sports bra.

The 964 RS had a reputation for being almost unusable on UK roads. That is not entirely undeserved, the standard dampers at the front do not respond well to bumps and under braking this can confuse the ABS. It can give you a fright. After only eight months I had the accepted RS suspension change to 993 RS front shocks - which was a big improvement. In 2005 Manthey Racing fitted their full KW suspension and it did transform the car - just as firm, but more responsive and considerably more stable in bumpy braking zones.

In 2007 I changed to 18-inch wheels (an expensive process as it's much more than just a wheel change) with a completely revised and track-focused geometry (I have those lovely 17-inch magnesium wheels refurbished and stored in bubble wrap) and while the ride comfort is further compromised, the track handling is massively improved.

Original mag wheels safely in storage
Original mag wheels safely in storage
Costs:
Servicing is not cheap - nor is engine, gearbox and diff work - but the costs that niggle me are for tyres. Too expensive and too often! The aggressive geometry on 18-inch wheels (285s at the back) means a set doesn't last long on track.

Where I've been:
Housed in London for the first couple of years and then SORNed for a while to make time and money for children. Back on the road and after innumerable trips to that small village in the Eifel, I re-registered her on German plates, with German insurance, and left her at Manthey Racing in Nurburg for many years, heading out there too many times a year for a fix. Nationality is a little vague at the moment - on German plates/insurance though sometimes in the UK and sometimes Nurburg.

Leading out Hans Stuck in the 'ring taxi - really!
Leading out Hans Stuck in the 'ring taxi - really!
What next?
Over the 14 years of ownership there have been a series of upgrades - suspension, some mild engine work, cage, increase from 17- to 18-inch wheels - and with each change the RS has improved and provided further years of challenge. I've thought about getting a GT3 of some kind, and I'm sure I'd be travelling faster, but I don't think I'd be having more fun. I'm just starting to get the hang of driving competently - I can't sell her now!

 

 

Author
Discussion

tim milne

Original Poster:

271 posts

174 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
They were even cheaper in the late 90's. I bought one in Hamburg for £18K in 1998 when a regular C2 964 was £22+. The RS was built for track days before track days were invented and for many years it was seen as undriveable and unwanted.

Fantastic cars.

j911

18 posts

104 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
My favourite 911. Really envious!

The Danimal

178 posts

96 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
Best 911 ever... awesome job. Hulk-green with envy. yes

Hooch747

64 posts

130 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
I owned a black RS for 4 years, sold it in 04 ( for £20 K ), as you say wonderful track car, awful on the road on standard suspension. I used to run mine with a little extra rake to improve balance. What tyres do you you run on ?

Munich

1,048 posts

137 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
Not a bad price...weeping I'm thinking I should buy a 996 GT3 because I can't see them getting much cheaper.
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LotusOmega375D

4,180 posts

94 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
What are they worth now then?

jmcc500

501 posts

159 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
As a new grad I ummed and ahhed about getting one of these in around 2001 - £23k would have got me into a nice LHD one. Price now? North of £50k...

johnpeat

5,326 posts

206 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
I seem to remember Dickie Meaden getting one of these around 2006ish - I assume he managed to sell it for a tasty profit!!

I've no interest in track hardware like this but I do love how the 964, which was garish and crude in it's day, now looks so nicely classic and focussed.

I saw a Turbo Cab in lurid Purple a few months ago - burbling along - and it just looked fantastic. WAY more interesting than anythign Porsche have made since...

StuttgartJem

59 posts

121 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
Lucky man, like a fine wine the 964 seems to get better with age (can't see the 996 doing the same, but I may regret saying that)

rtz62

1,666 posts

96 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
I always say that envy is a terrible thing; but for this I'll make an exceptio!

On my 'wish list' if I ever win the euromillions, together with a Ferrari F40, a Porsche 911 2.7 carrera and all the road-going versions of the Grp B rally cars; that shows how high it is in my estimation.

Like another response on this topic, I recently looked at a 996 GT3 (at a well-known specialist) and whilst Im sure they will apreciate, and are probably a better car than the 964RS, I know that I would never be satisfied if I pulled alongside a 964.

A true great, unaorned by much electronic frippery; the best 911 in my eyes.

blasos

220 posts

103 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
Looks identical to the "new[sic] 911". A bargain!

s m

17,362 posts

144 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
johnpeat said:
I seem to remember Dickie Meaden getting one of these around 2006ish - I assume he managed to sell it for a tasty profit!!
Thought he'd still got it

garypotter

1,012 posts

91 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
Great to see the car being used for what it was built to do -well done.

Also not a bad bit of investment, prices have gone skywards over the last 5/6 years, which all helps the costs of parts servicing and TYRES....


Edited by garypotter on Wednesday 30th October 13:11

MadDog1962

756 posts

103 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
Lucky git!

Mermaid

21,492 posts

112 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
Good story..

Flat6

566 posts

196 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
Fantastic car.. Always loved the way they sit, with the wheels squeezed under the rolled rear arches.

Peppermint green for me please biglaugh

Slippydiff

10,338 posts

164 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
s m said:
johnpeat said:
I seem to remember Dickie Meaden getting one of these around 2006ish - I assume he managed to sell it for a tasty profit!!
Thought he'd still got it
^ This.

Fantastic cars. I paid £23K for a Midnight Blue one in 2002.
I subsequently bought a perfect Guards Red example for £29K in 2003. Foolishly, in 2004, I sold that car too (to a friend for what I'd paid for it) it's now valued at close to £70K . . . .

B*gger !

smile

cjb1

1,999 posts

92 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
I've a 3.2 Sport and have had no inkling to move to a 964 so far, though I have to say the RS and Turbo's do look the mutt's nuts. I remember Tiff on TG years ago driving a peppermint green 964 Turbo, lovely machine.......the 3.2 will do me for a few more years......great article, thanks

TobesH

548 posts

148 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
Slippydiff said:
s m said:
johnpeat said:
I seem to remember Dickie Meaden getting one of these around 2006ish - I assume he managed to sell it for a tasty profit!!
Thought he'd still got it
^ This.

Fantastic cars. I paid £23K for a Midnight Blue one in 2002.
I subsequently bought a perfect Guards Red example for £29K in 2003. Foolishly, in 2004, I sold that car too (to a friend for what I'd paid for it) it's now valued at close to £70K . . . .

B*gger !

smile
I bloody went out and bought a brand spanker Boxster S in 2002 @ £42k!. I contemplated a 964RS @ £25k and an everyday car for £15k, but decided against it... why, why, why.., hindsight is a wonderful thing!

cjb1

1,999 posts

92 months

Monday 30th January 2012
quotequote all
I've a 3.2 Sport and have had no inkling to move to a 964 so far, though I have to say the RS and Turbo's do look the mutt's nuts. I remember Tiff on TG years ago driving a peppermint green 964 Turbo, lovely machine.......the 3.2 will do me for a few more years......great article, thanks