Swinton bike insurance...

[podman]

Bit lost for words at the mo, been insured with Swinton bikes for as long as I can remember, a decade or more easily.

Bear with me, this is a fairly long post……

Anyway, the last 2 years the service aspect of the company has really gone down the pan, (ive moaned about it on the site now and again) when ever you needed to clarify something or had an “unusual” addition like a power commander or enquired on additions to cover it was always a long drawn out process, they would NEVER call you back as promised and a lot of the operators had a “couldn’t care less “ attitude.

Regretfully now , as the renewal price was always good (after some haggling), I always stayed with them but the lack of faith in their operators combined with this poor service saw me recording most of the phone calls I had with them over the last 2 years ( save the data protection debate for another thread, another day…)

Back to 11am yesterday and I wished to add my 750 SRAD to my policy alongside the Busa, “manual policy Sir, well check it with Chaucer and ring you back, my names Abbey, I will call you back”….I know full well they wont but im prepared to be surprised…

Of course I call back to chase at 3 pm “she will call you back”…at 4pm she hasn’t, so I speak to Rachel , Rachel sympathises, I spend another 15 mins goin thru the detail again, says she look into it, “call you back in 15 mins”

Fast forward to today and as expected still no call back, ring back x 2 and ask for a Rachel or Abbey…”busy”….can I speak to a manager” “24hour call back Sir”…” “bear with us, extremely busy, we will call you back”

By 1pm I was getting mighty peeved, had a moan at one of the operators who then took up the case, all it took was a phone call to Chaucer to update the details but the original operatives still hadn’t managed to do that …got the usual “in bound call centre sir, we cant call you back, when we put the phone down, another call comes in…and where very busy, that’s why we dont call you back”…heard it all before says I…

Anyway, this chap, Joe, then looks at my claim history to firm it all up and we go thru my accident history, (third time in 24 hours this had been done mind you…)

I had 2 incidents in 2010 in my company car, one is resolved (hit by uninsured driver, driver convicted for driving with undue care and attention and obviously no insurance), another claim I have is outstanding, again on the company car..

“Oh sorry Sir, Chaucer have them both down as no fault accidents, I have to ring Chaucer, will call you back”…………..I could see what was coming so went thru my recordings and found the phone call when I renewed last year, I clearly stated both where pending…

Of course he doesn’t ring Chaucer to check until I call back to chase just before they close….20 mins of on hold again…Jo then miraculously calls me back from the inbound only call centre .and the end result is…

“Im sorry Sir, Chaucer have cancelled your policy as the original information supplied was inaccurate”..”No says I, your operatives don’t listen, you have insurance for that type of error, I should not be penalized”…” I have the original recording where I clearly stated both accidents where pending outcome at the time”..

“Can I speak to a manager says I?” …

”Be hopefully Monday now Sir…” says Joe

“I don’t know what you want to speak to a manager for Sir, they cant help anymore” “well try and find the recordings our end”…

“Until then Sir, we’ve cancelled you policy and im afraid we cant quote you on any policy on any bike”…then “as the cancellation fee is quite small, we’ve waivered it as a good will gesture”!!

That was it, a once loyal customer lost…….not a care in the world that they had made the error or left me with thousands of pounds worth of bikes uninsured that I cant ride..7 or 8 phone calls, of at least 20 minutes each on average..

So blood pressure going thru the roof, I have to leave it at that for now, ill be ring them up Tuesday when the manager hasn’t called me back………

In the meantime, I cant emphasise enough to avoid this company..When you need them most, they let you down the hardest.

Thanks for listening…….

[ssray]

Mine was bought a new bike on saturday, but too late to ring so i will collect on monday, on train rang swinton on my mobile, they had to ring chaucer-15-20mins on hold we cant cover that type of bike, its a flipping £750 tdm850 and i`m 44 with a clean licence etc
so then we discussed a new policy (less than a month on the old one) that will be £205, when i checked on mcn compere it was well under £100, so when i got to the person who`s bike i was buying i bought a new policy on line
Cheers
Ray

[PorkaFly]

OP - more terrible, terrible service. Swinton don't deserve to be in business. Certainly the worst I've ever dealt with in last few years, but by a long, long, long way. Good prices cant make up for their total incompetence, crap customer service and the sttty attitude of their brainless staff.

1. Vote with your feet
2. Write a complaint to insurance ombudsman about them
3. Take them to small claims court. It's very easy to do and you have all the evidence
4. Take every opportunity to spread the word to anyone who will listen how st Swinton are.

Pls do all of these things, they royally screwed me last year and I couldn't prove how they'd "sold" the bike policy to me - condescending oiks. In fact they are all obnoxious cs to deal with and I will never ever use them again.

Hope you get it resolved!

[podman]

PorkaFly said:

OP - more terrible, terrible service. Swinton don't deserve to be in business. Certainly the worst I've ever dealt with in last few years, but by a long, long, long way. Good prices cant make up for their total incompetence, crap customer service and the sttty attitude of their brainless staff.

1. Vote with your feet
2. Write a complaint to insurance ombudsman about them
3. Take them to small claims court. It's very easy to do and you have all the evidence
4. Take every opportunity to spread the word to anyone who will listen how st Swinton are.

Pls do all of these things, they royally screwed me last year and I couldn't prove how they'd "sold" the bike policy to me - condescending oiks. In fact they are all obnoxious cs to deal with and I will never ever use them again.

Hope you get it resolved!

I will do mate...I had an issue with them last year and wrote to them advising I would be contacting the ombudsman...I also attached a copy of my MOT as they had requested, the MOT was returned within a week, so I know they got the letter as the 2 where stapled together

When I rang them to query why they hadnt responded to the letter...they said "what letter?"...They couldnt be bothered to do the hard bit...anyway, I got £50 off for the delays/errors, as the usually do, so I stayed with them.....

Ive had to vote with me feet as they flatly refused to insure me...but get this, Carole Nash have quoted me...same detail as before, with Chaucer !

I have a feeling Chaucer are just as incompetent as Swinton........

Small claims is interesting angle, how do I go about that?

[PorkaFly]

These are good places to start:

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/making-a-co...

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/Ma...

Process is simple and doesn't cost much to file a small claims track. Do it at your local court - make them come to you. You're looking for your premium back - you will need to detail all of your comms with them and their incompetence and it's impact on you, plus loss of time which you can detail and price, and any other monies they've charged you. My expectation is when they receive the summons they will attempt to settle as you are likely to win and they won't want the negative publicity and record or judgement. Make sure you have it "served" to the correct Company address/registered office. These are often offices of their legal counsel anyway.

Good luck.

[rcsyoung]

OP - Write to the Swinton CEO. It will get handled by the same complaints people but it does get treated differently.

Explain, politely and factually the situation and tell them that you will be complaining to the Financial Ombudsman Service about their appalling customer service and the way that they are completely ignoring TCF principles (Treating Customer's Fairly).

The ombudsman service will require you to go through their complaints procedure before they will investigate a complaint, so explain that you are giving Swinton a chance to not get hit with the £600 case fee that the ombudsman service will charge them regardless of whether they find in your favour or not.

And finally - explain exactly what you want them to do. Whether it's an apology a refund, whatever it is you want them to do, state that clearly. Most companies try to close complaints off within 8 weeks (Swinton included) but based on their history it will go to the ombudsman.

Number of complaints opened - 1173
Number of complaints closed - 1132
Complaints closed within 8 weeks (%) - 98%
Closed complaints upheld by firm (%) - 22%

Good luck.

[The Legend]

Find the HOME address of the Swinton MD and send him a recorded delivery letter laying out exactly what has happened, and telling him you will not, under any circumstances reinsure with his company.

I did this with Churchill a few years ago regarding a non-fault accident (my car was parked and I wasn't even in it, yet they tried to say it was my fault!) that had dragged on for over six months.

I got:
A nice bunch of flowers
A nice box of chocolates
A nice cheque for £350 (for my inconvenience)
My car repaired at a garage of my choice

All within two weeks.

Mind you, it looks like they've had enough troubles:
http://www.newsinsurances.co.uk/blog/swinton-entir...

[RemaL]

AS above seems total bks service from them and I would taker it further

[3doorPete]

Nightmare Podman - at least you have the recordings. Imagine if you were reliant on the bike??!? What would have happened if you'd been hurt in an accident and tried to claim?!?!

I'm with them on my KTM and they can't seem to do enough - although the spam is annoying. I've checked my policy carefully though as I generally trust vehicle insurance brokers about as far as I can spit.

[smack]

What rcsyoung said sounds spot on. The OH had a problem with her insurance when she changed car, a screw up by both her and the insurance company and I got advice from R1 Loon how to deal with it, which was the same thing rcsyoung outlined.
Following his advice I managed to get out of the contract with the least possible cost, thankfully not having to take it to the complaints stage, and she took her business elsewhere.

[STHi]

smack said:

What rcsyoung said sounds spot on. The OH had a problem with her insurance when she changed car, a screw up by both her and the insurance company and I got advice from R1 Loon how to deal with it, which was the same thing rcsyoung outlined.
Following his advice I managed to get out of the contract with the least possible cost, thankfully not having to take it to the complaints stage, and she took her business elsewhere.

I'm going to have to change my name back to Loon aren't I?

There's some semblance of similarity, but e& rcsyoung are not quite in sync in terms of advice in reality, see below as to why.

rcsyoung said:

OP - Write to the Swinton CEO. It will get handled by the same complaints people but it does get treated differently.

No it won't. The process may differ internally and the CEO may want the answer to be appear to come from his office, but it will NOT automatically get a better response. See your point below re TCF.

rcsyoung said:

Explain, politely and factually the situation and tell them that you will be complaining to the Financial Ombudsman Service about their appalling customer service and the way that they are completely ignoring TCF principles (Treating Customer's Fairly).

There's no real TCF issue here, although an expalnantion as to why they just cancelled a policy that they were happy to broker ould be interesting.

FOS threats are not threats. Insurers & brokers get these everyday and they don't cause any issue for the insurer unless there is a trend appearing.

rcsyoung said:

The ombudsman service will require you to go through their complaints procedure before they will investigate a complaint, so explain that you are giving Swinton a chance to not get hit with the £600 case fee that the ombudsman service will charge them regardless of whether they find in your favour or not.

True

rcsyoung said:

And finally - explain exactly what you want them to do. Whether it's an apology a refund, whatever it is you want them to do, state that clearly. Most companies try to close complaints off within 8 weeks (Swinton included) but based on their history it will go to the ombudsman.

Most of that is true - the last bit isn't

rcsyoung said:

Number of complaints opened - 1173
Number of complaints closed - 1132
Complaints closed within 8 weeks (%) - 98%
Closed complaints upheld by firm (%) - 22%

This info doesn't relate to FOS complaints, just complaints received by the broker. The FSA logs and publishes these. GIven that a complaint is "any expression of dissatisfaction, whetehr verbal or written" it's likely that there will alays be a lot of complaints logged by any broker / insurer. Their closure rate is impressive.

rcsyoung said:

Good luck.

He may need this.

PorkaFly said:

OP - more terrible, terrible service. Swinton don't deserve to be in business. Certainly the worst I've ever dealt with in last few years, but by a long, long, long way. Good prices cant make up for their total incompetence, crap customer service and the sttty attitude of their brainless staff.

1. Vote with your feet
2. Write a complaint to insurance ombudsman about them
3. Take them to small claims court. It's very easy to do and you have all the evidence
4. Take every opportunity to spread the word to anyone who will listen how st Swinton are.

Pls do all of these things, they royally screwed me last year and I couldn't prove how they'd "sold" the bike policy to me - condescending oiks. In fact they are all obnoxious cs to deal with and I will never ever use them again.

Hope you get it resolved!

That is the biggest load of bks that I've seen ritten on a forum in a long time.

Points 1 & 2 are OK

Point 3 is garbage, point 4 is the actions of a small person.

[996 sps]

Point 4 is bang on had a nightmare with Swinton last year for European cover when I went to the South of France.

The lads who own bikes at my place of work will be fully briefed on point 4.

[rcsyoung]

STHi said:

rcsyoung said:

OP - Write to the Swinton CEO. It will get handled by the same complaints people but it does get treated differently.

No it won't. The process may differ internally and the CEO may want the answer to be appear to come from his office, but it will NOT automatically get a better response. See your point below re TCF.

It usually gets a faster response - maybe not better but the visibility of the issue will be greater than if you complain normally - that's what I meant to get across.

STHi said:

rcsyoung said:

Explain, politely and factually the situation and tell them that you will be complaining to the Financial Ombudsman Service about their appalling customer service and the way that they are completely ignoring TCF principles (Treating Customer's Fairly).

There's no real TCF issue here, although an expalnantion as to why they just cancelled a policy that they were happy to broker ould be interesting.

FOS threats are not threats. Insurers & brokers get these everyday and they don't cause any issue for the insurer unless there is a trend appearing.

I disagree that there's no TCF issue here. podman has been calling regularly to get something sorted out, being ignored by customer service reps and then having the company do a complete 180. There's also no blame attached to the insurer because the same insurer is going to insure him again. I think you can happily land that under TCF:

"Firms need to assess the quality of the advice given to customers at the sales and advice stage of the product's life cycle. Sales staff should properly consider the customers' circumstances, to enable them to find a product that is suited to their needs.

In the insurance industry, this means finding a policy that adequately protects the customer."

STHi said:

rcsyoung said:

Number of complaints opened - 1173
Number of complaints closed - 1132
Complaints closed within 8 weeks (%) - 98%
Closed complaints upheld by firm (%) - 22%

This info doesn't relate to FOS complaints, just complaints received by the broker.

True but the last figure - closed complaints upheld by the company - means that a significant number of complaints are likely to go on to the FOS as the company has not admitted any kind of liability.

FOS figures show that there are over 400 FOS complaints about Swinton per year, so it's a pretty significant proportion.

[podman]

Thanks for all the advice people, really much appreciated...I shall keep you opsted with how it goes....I have spread the word on other forums about this and if it stops one customer using Swintons, its good by me.


On a happier note, Carole Nash quoted me way cheaper than Swintons this morning ,less than Swinton's had indicated last month for just the SRAD alone ,with CN multibike policy, so I am insured now on both bikes...I made sure I recorded that call as well!

Icing on the cake is that I got out on the SRAD this afternoon and is a beauty...

[smack]

STHi said:

I'm going to have to change my name back to Loon aren't I?

First thing in the morning before a cuppa I couldn't remember your new username!

[996 sps]

podman said:

Thanks for all the advice people, really much appreciated...I shall keep you opsted with how it goes....I have spread the word on other forums about this and if it stops one customer using Swintons, its good by me.


On a happier note, Carole Nash quoted me way cheaper than Swintons this morning ,less than Swinton's had indicated last month for just the SRAD alone ,with CN multibike policy, so I am insured now on both bikes...I made sure I recorded that call as well!

Icing on the cake is that I got out on the SRAD this afternoon and is a beauty...

Bet you love point 4 then.

[rcsyoung]

Good news podman - always fancied the SRAD so I'm glad you're enjoying it.

[STHi]

rcsyoung said:

It usually gets a faster response - maybe not better but the visibility of the issue will be greater than if you complain normally - that's what I meant to get across.

It shouldn't and won't in the majority of cases. What it will get is put on a different list than normal complaints when the Exec review the overall business stats. However, it will be aggregated into a number and not looked at individually other than by the same people who would deal with a normal complaint.

rcsyoung said:

I disagree that there's no TCF issue here. podman has been calling regularly to get something sorted out, being ignored by customer service reps and then having the company do a complete 180. There's also no blame attached to the insurer because the same insurer is going to insure him again. I think you can happily land that under TCF:

"Firms need to assess the quality of the advice given to customers at the sales and advice stage of the product's life cycle. Sales staff should properly consider the customers' circumstances, to enable them to find a product that is suited to their needs.

In the insurance industry, this means finding a policy that adequately protects the customer."

No it doesn't mean that. It depends on what basis the company sells products ie Execution Only, Advice Only or Advice & Recommendation. The issue here actually sits with both the broker (who appear fairly incompetent) and the underwriter (who are a PITA when it comes to claims history).

The lack of call back is an issue and could sit within TCF, but is more of a piss poor service approach. I'd expect him to get a whopping £20 in compensation in about 8 - 10 months time if it goes to the FOS.

rcsyoung said:

True but the last figure - closed complaints upheld by the company - means that a significant number of complaints are likely to go on to the FOS as the company has not admitted any kind of liability.

FOS figures show that there are over 400 FOS complaints about Swinton per year, so it's a pretty significant proportion.

No it doesn't. Unless you have something to support that then it's an incorrect assumption.

Here is the real complaints data covering the second half of 2011.

No of complaints received: 1242
No of complaints resolved: 1279 (there will inevitably be some received before 01/07/2011 but resolved afterwards)
Closed within 8 weeks: 99%
percentage upheld 16%

So this suggests that either they repudiate complaints willy nilly, or that the initial decision was correct.

Following your logic the number of complaints to the FOS should be 1043 (1242 received x 84% non upheld complaints)

For reference the complaints level at 1279 when compared to policies in force of 1,185.791 equates to c0.1% of people who complain. That is pretty good in comparison to the industry.

I have no allegiance to Swinton, nor have I ever done any business personally or professionally with them. I think the srvice has been poor. However and this is quite a big one. He will receive this sort of runaround from probably every bike broker out there at the moment.

This is peak time, bike insurance brokers have a huge surge between March and May and this period is where 80% of their annual business is conducted. If you want better service buy (and subsequently renew) your policy in September to November, they are much quieter and have more time to deal.

If you want them to staff up to peak levels then expect a c260% increase in your premium to cover the annual costs of these staff.

[996 sps]

rcsyoung said:

Good news podman - always fancied the SRAD so I'm glad you're enjoying it.

Yep did you enjoy your ride out on it yesterday? Brief the bikers up at the local meet on point 4 my man!!