do I have to provide an employer my holiday booking?

[Porlock]

Long Story, so short version. Booked a holiday for me & Mrs. she works in school (non teaching support position), holiday is half term + 1 day of new term (a non-pupil day) Headmistress refused giving an irrelivent reason, relating to no holidays allowed at the END of term?

We consulted union, they offered advice. we appealed, governors overturned original refusal. Now headmistress wants a copy of our booking for apparently "her records"

Question is, can she legally ask for this? and do I (as the one who booked it) have to provide it, as I am not her employee?

Smacks of Flounting her authority (tantamount to bullying?)

[rog007]

I'm not aware of any general legislation that would deem this neccesary, but there may be local rules allowing it; why not ask to see the policy that states this is a requirement. There is of course the issue of maintaining good relationships, and if providing a piece of paper helps this, then it may be worth considering. Good luck!

[randlemarcus]

Give her a copy of the Virgin Galactic flight you're booked on, followed by the rest of the week in a villa on Necker Island.

[Porlock]

randlemarcus said:

Give her a copy of the Virgin Galactic flight you're booked on, followed by the rest of the week in a villa on Necker Island.

Think she would be well peed off with that, should I throw in the personal invite from Richard Branson just for good measure??

[Porlock]

rog007 said:

I'm not aware of any general legislation that would deem this neccesary, but there may be local rules allowing it; why not ask to see the policy that states this is a requirement. There is of course the issue of maintaining good relationships, and if providing a piece of paper helps this, then it may be worth considering. Good luck!

Checked out the school policies and contract info, no mention at all of any requirements to give a reason for wanting a day off. As the Mrs has worked there for almost 20 years she is entitled to 2 "Long Service" days, it is one of these she had requested off. Headmistress has sent her an Email containing the following "Long Service days cannot be taken in term time" Union were very interested in that one.

[GoneAnon]

Not aimed at you or yours, but surely schools have enough holidays to make it uneccessary for teachers, staff, or pupils to take time off in term-time?

I doubt if she has any authority to ask for a holiday booking, but suspect there may be a rule saying that leave has to be agreed in advance. I was once refused leave that had been verbally agreed because the MD had arranged a conference that we all HAD to attend. Because my holiday dates had not been agreed and logged in the system it meant I wasn't allowed to go on holiday so I flew my wife out to meet me after the conference and we made a weekend of it there instead.

[stumpage]

Did you book your holiday before checking with your bosses if those dates would be ok?

[NormalWisdom]

Non-teacher + non-pupil day = Very petty headmistress.

She is being totally unreasonable and exceeding her authority by asking for proof.

[Deva Link]

NormalWisdom said:

Non-teacher + non-pupil day = Very petty headmistress.

Total guess, and depends on the size of the school, but perhaps the HT is a bit concerned that it will be even more noticeable than usual if someone is missing on a training day? I OK'd an extra days holiday for my admin once when her return flight time got changed and HR went bonkers saying everyone would expect it.

My daughter teaches and she seems to be able to get odd days off in term time without too much difficulty. The burser is usually the person who complains most as he has to pay for the cover.

[h0b0]

It seems to me like the way in which you have gone about this has been poor from the start. I would guess the head teacher is being stubborn because you really couldn't have done this in a way that wasn't going to piss her off any more.

My suggestion is to find alternative employment for your partner as it is unlikely they will have a job much longer. I hope the holiday is worth it.

Also, my guess is that you do not want to show your holiday plans because you get back home in time for your partner to return to work but like a "buffer" day to recover.

[Xtype]

GoneAnon said:

Not aimed at you or yours, but surely schools have enough holidays to make it uneccessary for teachers, staff, or pupils to take time off in term-time?

Thats not the point, if she is entitled to two long service days off that's her entitlement.

[Grenoble]

I think the head teacher is being confused.

Holiday entitlement is holiday entitlement.

Who said you have to go away on holiday? How you use it is up to you....

[Porlock]

Grenoble said:

I think the head teacher is being confused.

Holiday entitlement is holiday entitlement.

Who said you have to go away on holiday? How you use it is up to you....

Exactly, we could be doing anything we like on her holiday day.

But back to my main question, do I have to legally provide proof of my holiday booking? And does she have a right to request a copy of our booking for her so called records when I am not her employee ?

[davepoth]

Porlock said:

Exactly, we could be doing anything we like on her holiday day.

But back to my main question, do I have to legally provide proof of my holiday booking? And does she have a right to request a copy of our booking for her so called records when I am not her employee ?

No, you don't, and no, she doesn't. Use the rudest language you can get away with to explain that to her, or better still, inform the governors again.

[RicksAlfas]

Porlock said:

But back to my main question, do I have to legally provide proof of my holiday booking? And does she have a right to request a copy of our booking for her so called records when I am not her employee ?

Probably not, but for the benefit of your OH's future relationship with her boss, can't you just show her it and move on?
The headmistress is being unreasonable, but it seems you're intent on matching her and going one better.

[Grenoble]

RicksAlfas said:

Porlock said:

But back to my main question, do I have to legally provide proof of my holiday booking? And does she have a right to request a copy of our booking for her so called records when I am not her employee ?

Probably not, but for the benefit of your OH's future relationship with her boss, can't you just show her it and move on?
The headmistress is being unreasonable, but it seems you're intent on matching her and going one better.

Why the bloody hell should they provide it? They have followed hr policy, the head hasn't.

I'd just diffuse it and say - going various places, no need to book hotels at this time of year- will see how the the weather is - we might just stay at home, but thanks for your interest...

[shtu]

Grenoble said:

Why the bloody hell should they provide it? They have followed hr policy, the head hasn't.

That's it really.

The head seems to be either trying to set a precedent that she will only grant holidays in term time if you have booked something, or at the very least still trying to exert some power over the situation that she doesn't have.

If there is nothing in the contract, etc. about providing this, don't. How militantly you want to deal with it is up to you really, I'd just "forget". Repeatedly.

[Grenoble]

shtu said:

That's it really.

The head seems to be either trying to set a precedent that she will only grant holidays in term time if you have booked something, or at the very least still trying to exert some power over the situation that she doesn't have.

If there is nothing in the contract, etc. about providing this, don't. How militantly you want to deal with it is up to you really, I'd just "forget". Repeatedly.

Indeed.

I'm always fairly chilled with my team. We work long hours and have to travel a lot which cuts into personal time. We often turn a blind eye to early finishes and extra days tacked on for business/pleasure - it's part of the balance.

I'd never ask for proof for a holiday, it's none of my business. I have a hard enough time persuading my team not to dial in to team calls whilst on holiday and to switch off their email! (yes, I have had IT disconnect their accounts before - no, I'm not a monster - just blessed with a workaholic team!)

[h0b0]

I think both sides have handled the situation badly and the most important thing is to ensure the long term relationship isn't impacted.

I will give you my thoughts from the perspective of the headmistress. Holidays have to authorized even if you are entitled to them. This is because the manager has to assess the business impact of staff holidays. Weather or not there is an impact on the headmistress' schedule is now not relevant. What is is the fact you took that away from her. You are now telling her when you will be away and not asking. You are also saying you don't respect her as a superior.

The headmistress shouldn't be demanding to see evidence but she is just trying to reset the balance. Allow her to be the boss and things will work out. Go down the militant road and you will need to seek further employment for you wife. Or, at the very least, those occasions when the head turned a blind eye will no longer happen.

[lestag]

shtu said:

or at the very least still trying to exert some power over the situation that she doesn't have.

This, trying to save face