Best AWD / 4WD conversion for MK1 Seat Leon [track car] ?

[Rgm racer]

Cost aside, what would be the best [and maybe most straight forward] AWD/4WD system that could be fitted to a 2005 Seat Leon [track] car.

Have heard of people taking bits from an S3 but then some say haldex system isn't brilliant [especially for track] and tends to under steer like a FWD only due to it being more FWD then RWD bias ?

Would a permanent and equal front/rear AWD/4WD set up be the best way to go and possible to achieve??

Finally is there any actual difference between what people refer to as AWD as opposed to 4WD?

[Nick1point9]

Sell it and buy an S3. Anything done to convert a LCR to AWD would be a complete waste of money.

[Olivera]

Buy a 4WD Leon Mk1 that was available elsewhere in Europe? IIRC they came in 1.8t and V6 varieties, all LHD.

Either way not sure what the point would be unless you are going to run crazy power, a well setup FWD Leon (see BTCC, Cupra Cup) is still a very quick car.

[vx220]

Haldex can be made rear biased with a programmable controller
I guess this comes down to your abilities
If you have to pay someone to do it, it's probably not worth it
If you can cut/fabricate/weld to a high standard and have space and tools and time...

[Bitzer]

As said above, an 8L S3 would shirley be cheaper

[Nick1point9]

Rgm racer said:

Cost aside

In reality, if you want permanent AWD you need to cut the floor out of a transverse AWD car (only an evo springs to mind) and weld that onto the body of your LCR, then mate the 1.8t engine (if sticking with it) onto the gearbox, then fabricate all the mounts at the front end (as this will still be LCR). Then you have to fit all the evo (or whatever donor car) suspension to the LCR body. You're likely to have massive issues with things like steering, as you're likely to have to change the subframe.

Basically, there is no good reason to do it. You'll be looking at months of fabrication work and thousands of £s.

Why does it need to be AWD? If you want a LCR track car then (I'd imagine) up to about 350-400bhp you should be fine with FWD with a decent diff and revised suspension (FWD version of anti squat?). If 400bhp isn't enough, do you really want a hot hatch? A caterfield with half the power would be much more fun and probably quicker.

Edited by Nick1point9 on Friday 9th November 08:31

[Kwistof]

vx220 said:

Haldex can be made rear biased with a programmable controller
I guess this comes down to your abilities
If you have to pay someone to do it, it's probably not worth it
If you can cut/fabricate/weld to a high standard and have space and tools and time...

Buy an S3 and chuck one of these on it

http://www.hpamotorsport.com/haldex.htm

[Dr G]

Bitzer said:

As said above, an 8L S3 would shirley be cheaper

...but if the OP doesn't wish to change car an old S3 would be an ideal donor car; something with a blown engine or stolen/recovered salvage (assuming no significant damage) would be perfect.

The Haldex controller linked above is supposed to transform Haldex too.

[5harp3y]

get a scrapped / rolled mk4 r32 golf and start from there.

[the stigs dad]

The haldex sport and race upgrades are well worth the money, much better than standard. 4wd over fwd everytime.

[Rgm racer]

Thanks for all replies [well constructive ones anyway]

Situation is the car has been developed to its current state over the last 4-5 years. It is already vastly modified in every way and running approx 400 stallions!!

To make it clear due to the amount of money, time and effort it has taken to get to this stage I am not keen to start anything else from scratch, plus its basically a very clean car as well with no issues.

Now I am looking at my next move and it will be either:-

1. Slightly bigger turbo and more engine work FWD [approx 450-475bhp]
2. Step up again on turbo size combined with more engine work FWD [500+ bhp] Totally bonkers I know but part of me thinks don't follow the pack and just do something mental and different!!
3. As above [number 2] but also convert to AWD or 4WD? which for traction will make more sense but will have to except weight gains.

So if biting the bullet and going for option 3 I would want to be sure it was the best possible set up available as to make all the cost, effort and time worthwhile, hence the original post.

Before anyone says it yes I know I could buy an "xyz" for all this money but that's not really the point as I could say that about what I have already spent on it but whatever road car you buy at any level you can potentially spend a fortune getting more power out of it and making it more track focused. I also like idea of having a standard looking sleeper that performs very well against much more exotic toys

Edited by Rgm racer on Friday 9th November 21:36

Edited by Rgm racer on Friday 9th November 21:37

Edited by Rgm racer on Friday 9th November 21:38

[Nick1point9]

It would take a lot less effort and cash to swap your existing engine into an S3 than it would to fit AWD to your LCR if you're concerned about not losing out on the money you've already spent.

Seriously, there is no good reason to convert your LCR to AWD when it shares it platform with 2 cars that are available with AWD; get a donor car and swap the engine. That way any chassis upgrades at the front end are a direct swap, as are some rear end upgrades. If you have upgraded brakes they will swap over too.

So 3 days in a garage vs weeks of fabrication, is it really worth keeping the LCR?

[Rgm racer]

Nick1point9 said:

It would take a lot less effort and cash to swap your existing engine into an S3 than it would to fit AWD to your LCR if you're concerned about not losing out on the money you've already spent.

Seriously, there is no good reason to convert your LCR to AWD when it shares it platform with 2 cars that are available with AWD; get a donor car and swap the engine. That way any chassis upgrades at the front end are a direct swap, as are some rear end upgrades. If you have upgraded brakes they will swap over too.

So 3 days in a garage vs weeks of fabrication, is it really worth keeping the LCR?

Short answer "Yes"

Longer answer, I of course can see where your coming from BUT you have not really taken in my last post. I do want to keep car as its a sound car i have owned several years and intend to own for several more. As mentioned i have spent money, time and effort on this that means i definitely want to keep the car! All i am deciding is whether to stick with fwd or go for 100+ bhp more and 4wd as a something a bit different/rare fun project. Even if i did want to just swap to an s3 at this stage [which just to clarify, i don't!] it would be more work than you realise to get where i'm talking about by "vastly" modified, ie bodywork,brakes,suspension,windows etc.etc.etc. in addition to the engine work.
Don't get me wrong though if i could turn clock back 4-5 years when i started this project by buying the lcr i would in hind sight [wonderful thing hind sight] probably buy a 4motion golf or possibly as you suggest an s3.

[MikeATD]

I can see why people want to modify the "wrong" car. I have done it to a mark one golf. That is converted to four wheel drive using s3 box and diff and an Elise rear subframe modified with a dutchbuild cradle. It has cost a small fortune and I could have bought something that would lap quicker, but there is something nice about a 400 plus hp mk1.

[Furry Exocet]

There's one on Seat Cupra.net which has what you want. There's also a MK2 cupra with some serious power and awd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3TrKzzgURk&fe...

Edited by Furry Exocet on Saturday 10th November 11:02

[Rgm racer]

MikeATD said:

I can see why people want to modify the "wrong" car. I have done it to a mark one golf. That is converted to four wheel drive using s3 box and diff and an Elise rear subframe modified with a dutchbuild cradle. It has cost a small fortune and I could have bought something that would lap quicker, but there is something nice about a 400 plus hp mk1.

I was at a VAG day at Combe a few years back and there were some nice porsches, top end audis etc but the quickest thing there and consequently what caught my eye was a black totally standard looking [so not exciting at all!] mk1 or mk2 [not sure which] golf. It was being well driven, was well planted and went like stink!! Great to see and i expect to drive

I always find it interesting to read up and see what totally mad bonkers things people have done to different cars and often it can be even more interesting the more modest the base vehicle used in the first place is.

[Rgm racer]

Furry Exocet said:

There's one on Seat Cupra.net which has what you want. There's also a MK2 cupra with some serious power and awd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3TrKzzgURk&fe...

Edited by Furry Exocet on Saturday 10th November 11:02

When you say there's one on SCN, do you mean for sale? or are you just referring about some of the different cars in the readers ride section? as yeah thanks i am aware of these different cars. In fact the chap that bought most of my interior off me is turning a standard leon, not even lcr into a 4wd up to 700hp beast Great to know there are some real car/power nutters out there, makes the world a much more interesting place

[Furry Exocet]

Rgm racer said:

When you say there's one on SCN, do you mean for sale? or are you just referring about some of the different cars in the readers ride section? as yeah thanks i am aware of these different cars. In fact the chap that bought most of my interior off me is turning a standard leon, not even lcr into a 4wd up to 700hp beast Great to know there are some real car/power nutters out there, makes the world a much more interesting place

There's a mk1 in the readers ride section, I'll try and find a link, he's done a very detailed thread on it

Edit - the one I'm thinking about is one you've already posted on, he's got a donor s3 I think, but it's not completed yet.
You could always try and find one of these to use as a donor

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3...

Edited by Furry Exocet on Saturday 10th November 20:51

[james_tigerwoods]

This reminds me of a photo/article I read once, years ago, of a custom 2/3 door Mk1 Leon with a rear mounted engine that was, unfortunately, only a 1.8T. I'll have a hunt for it.

Unless I dreamt it...

[JB!]

Honestly?

Swap whatever you can accross into an S3 or Mk4 4mo, and sell the rest or use a different engine in your Leon shell OR buy a 4wd Leon from europe.

it isnt worth all the cutting and fab work, especially considering how cheap mk4 platform 4wd cars are.