Shotgun Safe - Metal Key or Numeric Keycode?
Discussion
Looking at getting a shotgun safe, but got a couple of questions. I know there's some clay shooters on here who may be able to help.
i) What's the difference between a "shotgun cabinet" and a "shotgun safe"?
ii) Would you recommend a key safe (i.e. has a key and keyhole), or a keycode safe? (i.e. a numeric code entry pad) Bearing in mind the price differential.
iii) If you use a key safe, then how do you keep your keys secure? I don't like the idea of a key safe because although they are cheaper I can't see how to make my key for the shotgun safe secure, except by putting it in a keycode safe!
Cheers
i) What's the difference between a "shotgun cabinet" and a "shotgun safe"?
ii) Would you recommend a key safe (i.e. has a key and keyhole), or a keycode safe? (i.e. a numeric code entry pad) Bearing in mind the price differential.
iii) If you use a key safe, then how do you keep your keys secure? I don't like the idea of a key safe because although they are cheaper I can't see how to make my key for the shotgun safe secure, except by putting it in a keycode safe!
Cheers
They're largely the same in my experience - secure storage, unless you're talking about ornamental cabinets which are a differenet (and expensive) ballgame.
I went for a Brattonsound 5-7, which despite it's name will only fit three scoped rifles comfortably with enough room for a few extras on the top shelf. With shotties, you'll another in at least - best bit of advice is overspec it, you will use it at some point
Mine is a simple key driven system, one key is on my keyring, the other stored in a locked drawer at work. You may find that keypad safes have a key backup anyway, so you'll still have a storage problem.
If you have another safe for ammunition (not legally required for shotties IIRC - but highly recommended) then put your spare key in there, and make that a keycode variety. (it can be much smaller and more easily hidden, and can be had for £30-40 or so.)
I went for a Brattonsound 5-7, which despite it's name will only fit three scoped rifles comfortably with enough room for a few extras on the top shelf. With shotties, you'll another in at least - best bit of advice is overspec it, you will use it at some point
Mine is a simple key driven system, one key is on my keyring, the other stored in a locked drawer at work. You may find that keypad safes have a key backup anyway, so you'll still have a storage problem.
If you have another safe for ammunition (not legally required for shotties IIRC - but highly recommended) then put your spare key in there, and make that a keycode variety. (it can be much smaller and more easily hidden, and can be had for £30-40 or so.)
Kuroblack350 said:
They're largely the same in my experience - secure storage, unless you're talking about ornamental cabinets which are a differenet (and expensive) ballgame.
I went for a Brattonsound 5-7, which despite it's name will only fit three scoped rifles comfortably with enough room for a few extras on the top shelf. With shotties, you'll another in at least - best bit of advice is overspec it, you will use it at some point
Mine is a simple key driven system, one key is on my keyring, the other stored in a locked drawer at work. You may find that keypad safes have a key backup anyway, so you'll still have a storage problem.
If you have another safe for ammunition (not legally required for shotties IIRC - but highly recommended) then put your spare key in there, and make that a keycode variety. (it can be much smaller and more easily hidden, and can be had for £30-40 or so.)
Yes, I've had advice from pretty much everyone, including the police who did my interview, to oversize the storage vs. what you think you'll want short term as it will be used eventually!I went for a Brattonsound 5-7, which despite it's name will only fit three scoped rifles comfortably with enough room for a few extras on the top shelf. With shotties, you'll another in at least - best bit of advice is overspec it, you will use it at some point
Mine is a simple key driven system, one key is on my keyring, the other stored in a locked drawer at work. You may find that keypad safes have a key backup anyway, so you'll still have a storage problem.
If you have another safe for ammunition (not legally required for shotties IIRC - but highly recommended) then put your spare key in there, and make that a keycode variety. (it can be much smaller and more easily hidden, and can be had for £30-40 or so.)
With your key driven safe, does it require both keys or just one? I'm assuming that the one at work isn't part of a dual lock system, it's just a spare key and in fact you can get in your cabinet using just the one key on your keyring? If that's the case are you not worried about the security of your keys? I think it would worry me, but I don't know if I'm being unreasonable or not.
Your other idea about getting a big key driven safe for the shotgun and then keeping the key in a coded safe is one of my potential plans.. but if I'm doing that then it might work out cheaper/more convenient to just get a coded shotgun safe as it would be a simpler system.
jjones said:
as long as you take reasonable steps to hide the key then this is fine. e.g. don't put the key on the key hooks with the other household keys.
That's what my parents do. We just put the keys out of sight and not with the general household keys. We also have two cabinets - one large one for shotguns (my Mum and Sister have licenses) and one for the rifles - to which only my Dad and me have access as FAC holders.Ok, say I wanted a 5 shotgun capacity to allow for a future collection.
The cheapest BS7558 compliant gun cabinet uses keys and costs £161.94
http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/products/4-5-gun-cabi...
But I'd probably want a code safe for the keys. Now I assume this doesn't need to be BS7558 because you guys are telling me you don't actually have to lock the keys up at all? If that's the case then the cheapest one is a "Yale Budget Safe" for £35.99
http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/products/yale-budget-...
Total cost = £161.94 + £35.99 = £197.93
The alternative would be a 5 shotgun safe which uses a key code. I didn't find any 5 gun versions, the cheapest keypad gun safe is £467.99 and stores 10.
http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/products/buffalo-rive...
It does have the advantage of being much bigger than the 5 gun cabinet above, but it's a heck of a price jump.
What would your thoughts be on these two options? The former is definitely the least cost option, whilst remaining legal. The latter gives more space and is a simpler system, but is a lot more expensive. (To make things comparable, if I wanted the extra space there's a 9 gun cabinet for £215 which would total £251 including the budget combination safe. Still over £200 cheaper than the big boy buffalo river.)
The cheapest BS7558 compliant gun cabinet uses keys and costs £161.94
http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/products/4-5-gun-cabi...
But I'd probably want a code safe for the keys. Now I assume this doesn't need to be BS7558 because you guys are telling me you don't actually have to lock the keys up at all? If that's the case then the cheapest one is a "Yale Budget Safe" for £35.99
http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/products/yale-budget-...
Total cost = £161.94 + £35.99 = £197.93
The alternative would be a 5 shotgun safe which uses a key code. I didn't find any 5 gun versions, the cheapest keypad gun safe is £467.99 and stores 10.
http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/products/buffalo-rive...
It does have the advantage of being much bigger than the 5 gun cabinet above, but it's a heck of a price jump.
What would your thoughts be on these two options? The former is definitely the least cost option, whilst remaining legal. The latter gives more space and is a simpler system, but is a lot more expensive. (To make things comparable, if I wanted the extra space there's a 9 gun cabinet for £215 which would total £251 including the budget combination safe. Still over £200 cheaper than the big boy buffalo river.)
nsi said:
What would your thoughts be on these two options?
How about a third option?Buy a 5 gun key operated safe now, and a code operated safe to keep the keys in if you really feel that's necessary, and if you get to the point of needing more storage buy another one.
On the figures above that will work out £100 cheaper in total and will lessen the financial impact right now at the point where your money will be better spent on a gun, cartridges, clays, lessons etc etc.
I have a Brattonsound 5 gun shotgun safe with keys. Does the job and the keys are not a problem to keep out of sight or hidden away elsewhere.
Also hooked info the house alarm with police response if its opened without being disarmed first. Just a simple door contact on the inside of the safe on a constantly monitored alarm input.
Also hooked info the house alarm with police response if its opened without being disarmed first. Just a simple door contact on the inside of the safe on a constantly monitored alarm input.
theironduke said:
Does anybody have, or know anybody who does have, a dedicataed gun room in their house? Vault door, no windows and racked out inside? Always loved the idea of this if I had a euromillions win!
One of my old team-mates does, he bought a walk-in bank vault, they own a crane hire company with low loaders so were able to site it OK, the FAC licencing officer was concerned though that it wasn't bolted to a wall 
We had our cabinet bolted to a load bearing wall, the idea being that if someone was keen enough to bring a Kango hammer with them (unlikely for the sake of a few match rifles) they'd bring the house down with them.
Dusty964 said:
What is the problem with having a key operated safe, and keeping the key on your key ring?
The potential problem is that if you leave your keys on a table whilst you're in the house it means that pretty much anyone in the house could get access to the safe as all they'd need to get in are the keys. This means guests, wives, kids, workmen and thieves.If these people were unsupervised in part of your home and chose to steal your wallet it might be a pain to sort out your cards etc etc, but if they got access to your gun then I think you'd have far bigger problems to worry about than just calling your bank and insurers to replace your wallet.
So in my mind I'm currently thinking it needs to be more secure than my wallet and car keys. Hence the thread, to try to benchmark my thinking against other people to see if they agree with me or can persuade me I'm wrong.
nsi said:
Dusty964 said:
What is the problem with having a key operated safe, and keeping the key on your key ring?
The potential problem is that if you leave your keys on a table whilst you're in the house it means that pretty much anyone in the house could get access to the safe as all they'd need to get in are the keys. This means guests, wives, kids, workmen and thieves.If these people were unsupervised in part of your home and chose to steal your wallet it might be a pain to sort out your cards etc etc, but if they got access to your gun then I think you'd have far bigger problems to worry about than just calling your bank and insurers to replace your wallet.
So in my mind I'm currently thinking it needs to be more secure than my wallet and car keys. Hence the thread, to try to benchmark my thinking against other people to see if they agree with me or can persuade me I'm wrong.
Dusty964 said:
Your wife will already know that you have guns. So will your kids. I'm not trying to knock your views, but it smacks of paranoia.
Of course they will know, and if they got the keys they may then have access.But with a key code then so long as I don't share the code I can be sure no one but me has access to the shotgun safe, even if my bunch of keys are out of sight. Is that really being paranoid?
If you are honestly that concerned about your wife, kids or guests gaining access to your shotgun cabinet, it shouldn't be in your house. Simple as that!
I really don't see any problem with keeping one key with your others on the ring - which obviously I like to keep an eye on anyway.. - and the other locked away somewhere.
Keep your keys on your bedside table at night, or if you're really that paranoid lock them away with the spare.
Think about it. The chances of you encountering someone who is in your house, feels the need to steal your keys, actually considers using your keys while still in the house, finds your shotgun cabinet, has any sort of desire to start committing this level of crime, finds the correct key for it, takes a shotgun, manages to find any ammunition, and then has any intention of using it.. are the square root of f
k all!
I really don't see any problem with keeping one key with your others on the ring - which obviously I like to keep an eye on anyway.. - and the other locked away somewhere.
Keep your keys on your bedside table at night, or if you're really that paranoid lock them away with the spare.
Think about it. The chances of you encountering someone who is in your house, feels the need to steal your keys, actually considers using your keys while still in the house, finds your shotgun cabinet, has any sort of desire to start committing this level of crime, finds the correct key for it, takes a shotgun, manages to find any ammunition, and then has any intention of using it.. are the square root of f
k all!nsi said:
Dusty964 said:
Your wife will already know that you have guns. So will your kids. I'm not trying to knock your views, but it smacks of paranoia.
Of course they will know, and if they got the keys they may then have access.But with a key code then so long as I don't share the code I can be sure no one but me has access to the shotgun safe, even if my bunch of keys are out of sight. Is that really being paranoid?
As someone else has said, if you are that worried,you don't have a gun in the house.
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