Running: "Neural" calf pain. How/Why and Treating?
Discussion
I have suffered with calf pain that was suggested to be 'neural' pain by a physio. Fr the past couple of months I've been doing some stretches to prevent it, which has helped significantly and I've been steadily increasing my running mileage & intensity.
I've just been for a run and after 5 miles of mostly gravel track, followed by about half a mile of tarmac, I suddenly felt a sharp, 'cramping' pain don the back of my right calf. The pain then moved across towards the left of my right calf. I had to stop running. The pain felt 'cramp-like', but I recognised it as the 'neural' pain.
A few Downward-facing Dog Stretches and a sort of goose-stepping funny walk suggested by the physio to stretch the hamstrings seemed to ease it enough to allow me to resume running for the remaining 2 miles, although I could still feel it.
The pain was still there when stopped and did my stretching and rollering routine.
An hour or so later, the pain has subsided although the soleus'(?) in both legs are now feeling a bit tender.
What is happening? Any suggestions to prevent this in future?
- I do find that I get a sharp pain down the centre of the <edit>rear of my heel and bottom of my heel if I 'stretch' the nerve down my my right leg, though.
I've just been for a run and after 5 miles of mostly gravel track, followed by about half a mile of tarmac, I suddenly felt a sharp, 'cramping' pain don the back of my right calf. The pain then moved across towards the left of my right calf. I had to stop running. The pain felt 'cramp-like', but I recognised it as the 'neural' pain.
A few Downward-facing Dog Stretches and a sort of goose-stepping funny walk suggested by the physio to stretch the hamstrings seemed to ease it enough to allow me to resume running for the remaining 2 miles, although I could still feel it.
The pain was still there when stopped and did my stretching and rollering routine.
An hour or so later, the pain has subsided although the soleus'(?) in both legs are now feeling a bit tender.
What is happening? Any suggestions to prevent this in future?
Edited by MC Bodge on Saturday 5th October 18:46
how old are you? no pain coughing/sneezing? when did it start? did it come on gradually over time and get worse (1st run noticed it a bit, next run a bit worse and so on) or did you notice it really quickly?
is running the only thing that make it worse? Have you been running long? Does the back pain seem worse when the calf is bad?
Ross.
is running the only thing that make it worse? Have you been running long? Does the back pain seem worse when the calf is bad?
Ross.
I've just realised that my initial post suggested that I have back pain -I don't! (It is in the calves and over the rear of the right heel)
I'm 36, male.
I began getting calf (muscle) pain when I attempted to avoid heel-striking, although I have suffered with calf tightness and injuries in the past.
The neural pain set in a few months ago and I initially thought it be muscle strain, but it became apparent that it wasn't when the symptoms were reduced after dead-lifting and carrying large many bags of hardcore and soil.
The running-induced pain occasionally manifests itself whilst cycling.
ps. I tried running in some slightly lower-heeled shoes a few days ago, which was a little harder on the calves, but suffered none of the 'neural pain' I've suffered today. It may or may not be relevant, but I felt noticeably slower today than on a similar run last week.
I'm 36, male.
I began getting calf (muscle) pain when I attempted to avoid heel-striking, although I have suffered with calf tightness and injuries in the past.
The neural pain set in a few months ago and I initially thought it be muscle strain, but it became apparent that it wasn't when the symptoms were reduced after dead-lifting and carrying large many bags of hardcore and soil.
The running-induced pain occasionally manifests itself whilst cycling.
ps. I tried running in some slightly lower-heeled shoes a few days ago, which was a little harder on the calves, but suffered none of the 'neural pain' I've suffered today. It may or may not be relevant, but I felt noticeably slower today than on a similar run last week.
I've had the same thing, went to the physio and he diagnosed compartment syndrome:
http://www.runnersworld.com/tag/compartment-syndro...
http://www.runnersworld.com/tag/compartment-syndro...
without doing a physical exam it's impossible to say exactly, but could just be a calf strain.
more fore-foot striking = more strain on gastrocs and soleus, also under some strain when cycling etc. could also be (as mentioned above) compartment syndrome among lots of other things; doesn't necessarily sound like a nerve pain. could be, but plenty of other more simple things it could be.
more fore-foot striking = more strain on gastrocs and soleus, also under some strain when cycling etc. could also be (as mentioned above) compartment syndrome among lots of other things; doesn't necessarily sound like a nerve pain. could be, but plenty of other more simple things it could be.
E38Ross said:
without doing a physical exam it's impossible to say exactly, but could just be a calf strain.
more fore-foot striking = more strain on gastrocs and soleus, also under some strain when cycling etc. could also be (as mentioned above) compartment syndrome among lots of other things; doesn't necessarily sound like a nerve pain. could be, but plenty of other more simple things it could be.
Having been seen by the physio and treated initially for calf strain, on a subsequent visit when it recurred (and quickly eased off following some landscaping work!) he tried treating me for neural pain and it seemed to help a lot. After a week of foot/leg nerve exercises I was able to run without pain and it has been good for a couple of months whilst I've increased my mileage, cautiously. During the past week or so the twinges had been returning. Doing the exercises seemed to ease it though, until the pain earlier today.more fore-foot striking = more strain on gastrocs and soleus, also under some strain when cycling etc. could also be (as mentioned above) compartment syndrome among lots of other things; doesn't necessarily sound like a nerve pain. could be, but plenty of other more simple things it could be.
ps. I've just read the 'compartment syndrome' article. I do have naturally quite large, muscular legs (-does that sound a bit vain?! Probably more useful for strength than endurance) although I've never suffered this particular type of pain when I was more active in the past.
Edited by MC Bodge on Saturday 5th October 19:13
E38Ross said:
without doing a physical exam it's impossible to say exactly, but could just be a calf strain.
more fore-foot striking = more strain on gastrocs and soleus, also under some strain when cycling etc. could also be (as mentioned above) compartment syndrome among lots of other things; doesn't necessarily sound like a nerve pain. could be, but plenty of other more simple things it could be.
That.more fore-foot striking = more strain on gastrocs and soleus, also under some strain when cycling etc. could also be (as mentioned above) compartment syndrome among lots of other things; doesn't necessarily sound like a nerve pain. could be, but plenty of other more simple things it could be.
tori said:
E38Ross said:
without doing a physical exam it's impossible to say exactly, but could just be a calf strain.
more fore-foot striking = more strain on gastrocs and soleus, also under some strain when cycling etc. could also be (as mentioned above) compartment syndrome among lots of other things; doesn't necessarily sound like a nerve pain. could be, but plenty of other more simple things it could be.
That.more fore-foot striking = more strain on gastrocs and soleus, also under some strain when cycling etc. could also be (as mentioned above) compartment syndrome among lots of other things; doesn't necessarily sound like a nerve pain. could be, but plenty of other more simple things it could be.
What do I do about it?
Few things are a bit confusing. Dead lifts and carrying eased symptoms? Is that because you were running less and replacing this with other exercise? Running heel height reduced? Soleus pain or Posterior tibial tendon?
Stupid question but do you have over developed quads? Are you normally a heel striker and really having to force the mid foot/ff running without changing gait speed/stride length? Are you very flexible or are you *ahem* generally very stiff?
Stupid question but do you have over developed quads? Are you normally a heel striker and really having to force the mid foot/ff running without changing gait speed/stride length? Are you very flexible or are you *ahem* generally very stiff?
tori said:
Few things are a bit confusing. Dead lifts and carrying eased symptoms?
I had pain at a point where the soleus goes behind the gastro(?) towards the inner side of the calf on a Friday. I'd assumed that it had been a recurrent strain. Doing 2 days of work in the garden, involving digging, lifting, carrying many heavy bags of rubble (a few tonnes in total!) a distance (and then throwing into the tip) caused no pain and the symptoms had gone by the time I saw the physio on the Monday pm. The 'neural stretches' appeared to become easier and, until yesterday, the calf problems (other than occasional stiffness) appeared to be reducing towards nothing.
Edit: Today, there is only a bit of moderate stiffness/tightness in the soleus' muscles, not a feeling of injury.
tori said:
Stupid question but do you have over developed quads? Are you normally a heel striker and really having to force the mid foot/ff running without changing gait speed/stride length? Are you very flexible or are you *ahem* generally very stiff?
I do have quite chunky quads/thighs -and they are relatively short compared with the lower leg- and calves which has always been the case(one physio asked if I'd worked to build them up).I quickly found the non-heel-striking, shorter stride length gait quite comfortable (other than the calf pain) and I can maintain a reaonable pace.
I think I am fairly flexible compared with other blokes of my age.
ps. I have low arches
Edited by MC Bodge on Sunday 6th October 13:04
tori said:
Pffff *pinches bridge of nose and squints as in thought*
The physio identified soleus not quad as the issue and the heel pain as not the Achilles insertion? Have you had a gait analysis done?
The heel pain/sensation only arose after visiting the physio -It only occurs when I 'stretch' the nerve down the back of my leg/foot. The physio identified soleus not quad as the issue and the heel pain as not the Achilles insertion? Have you had a gait analysis done?
My quads aren't particularly tight.
I've not had gait analysis done.
That's sounding more and more like gastrox. I'm afraid your running style needs stripping back and starting again. And perception of flexor tightness compared with hams not functioning appropriately is deceptive. Can I suggest that for the next few weeks, you quit the running, start the bikram and Pilates to improve core and improve thigh muscle function, get a gait analysis to change running style then start again. It's a ball ache but it depends on how serious your running is. I just believe that without this you'll be dogged by injury. I'm also, despite being a pod, not convinced by orthoses without there afore mentioned. Another thing is sports massage and something called FMT or foot mobilisation technique. Google it and find a clinician as I've had amizzin results with it.
not wanting to go against what the physio said but it doesn't sound neural at the moment. Most of the time if a nerve is being irritated/pinched whatever you want to call it, if you stretch it, it'll hurt. nerve flossing (neurodynamic facilitation) is another matter and isn't stretching. Many stretches that would stretch the sciatic nerve (which ultimately supplied your calf, albeit it's divided by this point) will stretch your calves which may of course be helping if it's a muscular problem.
Certainly sounds like compartment syndrome or basic strain from what you've said so far to be honest.
Certainly sounds like compartment syndrome or basic strain from what you've said so far to be honest.
Thanks for the ideas, folks.
Last night I used a tennis ball in an attempt to massage the tight feeling bits, which did provide some relief.
I went for another run at lunchtime.
I was aware of a slight tightness/stiffness sensation in both calves beforehand, but I thought it may ease off when I warmed-up.
When I set off I was still aware of the sensation and it actually didn't ease. The interesting thing is that, although I could feel it, it didn't hinder my running.
To describe it: It felt like I had a strip of non-stretchy tape down the back of the inner side of each calf.
At the top of the hill I eased off for a few minutes and then ran a bit faster on the flat. The sensation subsided slightly.
After cooling-down, stretching and showering, the inner-backs of my calves felt strange walking up the stairs back to the office.
p.s. Last weekend, I did a steady 6 miles and felt good. Last Tuesday(?) I did a faster run in lower, thinner shoes which was the start of my latest round of aches.
pps. I did use orthotic inserts for around 15 years, but started weaning myself of them in January/February. I always walk around shoeless at home and wear low, flexible footwear as much as possible. Initially, going for short walks without orthotic inserts I did feel a slight soreness in my knees, but this soon passed.
ppps. I'm not sure what my gait is like, although I'm running comfortably, smoothly and lightly on my feet, with minimal 'bobbing' up and down. Other than the calf issues, it all feels very good. My knees, hips, back etc. are all felling great.
Last night I used a tennis ball in an attempt to massage the tight feeling bits, which did provide some relief.
I went for another run at lunchtime.
I was aware of a slight tightness/stiffness sensation in both calves beforehand, but I thought it may ease off when I warmed-up.
When I set off I was still aware of the sensation and it actually didn't ease. The interesting thing is that, although I could feel it, it didn't hinder my running.
To describe it: It felt like I had a strip of non-stretchy tape down the back of the inner side of each calf.
- Consciously* relaxing my calf muscles appeared to reduce the sensation.
At the top of the hill I eased off for a few minutes and then ran a bit faster on the flat. The sensation subsided slightly.
After cooling-down, stretching and showering, the inner-backs of my calves felt strange walking up the stairs back to the office.
p.s. Last weekend, I did a steady 6 miles and felt good. Last Tuesday(?) I did a faster run in lower, thinner shoes which was the start of my latest round of aches.
pps. I did use orthotic inserts for around 15 years, but started weaning myself of them in January/February. I always walk around shoeless at home and wear low, flexible footwear as much as possible. Initially, going for short walks without orthotic inserts I did feel a slight soreness in my knees, but this soon passed.
ppps. I'm not sure what my gait is like, although I'm running comfortably, smoothly and lightly on my feet, with minimal 'bobbing' up and down. Other than the calf issues, it all feels very good. My knees, hips, back etc. are all felling great.
Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 7th October 20:15
tori said:
That's sounding more and more like gastrox. I'm afraid your running style needs stripping back and starting again. And perception of flexor tightness compared with hams not functioning appropriately is deceptive. Can I suggest that for the next few weeks, you quit the running, start the bikram and Pilates to improve core and improve thigh muscle function, get a gait analysis to change running style then start again.
What would that achieve? I've moved away from a heel striking gait due to injury! Other than the calf discomfort (whatever is causing it), my running feels very smooth at the moment and I'm not suffering any sort of joint pain.tori said:
It's a ball ache but it depends on how serious your running is. I just believe that without this you'll be dogged by injury.
I have been for years. I'll see how things develop over the next few weeks. I'm running better at the moment than I have for a very long time.tori said:
FMT or foot mobilisation technique. Google it and find a clinician as I've had amizzin results with it.
Is it something genuine or a nice placebo massage?Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff