RE: The Michelin man: PH Meets

RE: The Michelin man: PH Meets

Wednesday 19th November 2014

The Michelin man: PH Meets

Secrets of steering feel and more from Michelin's 'subjective tyre tester' Baptiste Grison



This is a pretty good way to earn a crust - arriving at work every day to drive one of 20 private tracks your employer has built on site. Or a driving a track in another country altogether. This is 30-year-old Baptiste Grison's life as a tyre tester for Michelin at its giant Clermont-Ferrand HQ in Auvergne, central France. His exact title is 'subjective tyre tester' which means that he decides what tyre make-up is right for particular car based on "only the feeling", as he puts it. This guy's fingertips (and ears) are as important as any sensor or lap timer, basically.

Steering feel? Baptiste is your man
Steering feel? Baptiste is your man
We bumped into Baptiste in China at a Michelin event where he had been dragooned into sitting with journos while we drove strange China-only cars and immediately we noticed his hyper-sensitivity. He spotted a well-muted motor whine in a rebadged electric BMW that didn't rise and fall in line with revs. We struggled to even hear it but by the end of the two-mile run it was driving him crazy. One of his main jobs is working with car manufacturers to find exactly the right tyre to pair with their new car, creating a new version if necessary.

Sports car makers must value handling above all else, right? Not always. "During these last few years comfort and noise is starting to be a bigger matter for the sports car manufacturers," he told us. Part of the problem is that sports cars have become too good elsewhere, or at least too refined. "Because the car are becoming a lot more isolated, you're not hearing so much the engine, so all the noise comes from the tyres."

But because every action has a reaction when it comes to tyres, that noise reduction impacts elsewhere, mainly on wet handling if you change the tread pattern, he tells us. If the client (the maker) isn't happy about sacrificing that, maybe the compound can be changed, which might sacrifice a bit of rolling resistance or durability instead.

Baptiste's place of work - potential for fun aplenty
Baptiste's place of work - potential for fun aplenty
So what big changes has he noticed in sports cars he gets handed over the last few years? "Electric power steering." Do you hate it? "It depends. The first ones weren't that good. But now they're doing a great job - Porsche in 991 the BMW F30 3 Series for example. Of course they're not like hydraulic systems we had before, but pretty good electric power steering set-up feels almost no different," he said. What really winds him up though is when makers reprogramme the steering settings half-way through testing "Now the tyre is no good with the car!" he says.

The car he names as being the memorable he's driven in recent months is the Alfa Romeo 4C. "I really enjoyed that. It's like old school - no power steering assistance, so you really feel the car," he said. "Every movement you make in the car the car has a reaction on the road. This is the kind of car I like."

This is obvious from his car collection. He has a Caterham Roadsport that's he racing in a French series, a 2008 Subaru WRX (his wife's) and, our favourite, a first generation Peugeot 106 Rallye from 1993 with the 1.3-litre engine.

Feedback from 4C gets his seal of approval
Feedback from 4C gets his seal of approval
He says good steering feel is for generated by the tyres as much as the car. The positioning of the steel 'belts' that run though the tyre are key. "Changing one degree of angle can change a lot in the steering feel," he says. Shame that's nothing us citizens can play with...

We ask him about replacement tyres. How do you know which tyres will suit your car best? If they're still being made, then the tyres that were developed for it, he tells us predictability. Markings, such as Porsche's N1,N2 etc, let you know. And if the tyres aren't being made any more? Sadly there's no special intel here other than recommendations from owners via word of mouth or on forums like this. Although he does say that someone slating a tyre for one car doesn't mean the same exact tyre won't perform brilliantly for another model.

Fascinating stuff and proof, yet again, that the rubber bits connecting your car to the road are much overlooked when it comes to dictating how it behaves.

 

 

Author
Discussion

mrdemon

Original Poster:

21,146 posts

266 months

Wednesday 19th November 2014
quotequote all
Alfa 4C is good lol every one else hates it (or it comes last in every test), and 991 electric steering is good, !!!

this man is on drugs, I won't even talk about N spec.

crostonian

2,427 posts

173 months

Wednesday 19th November 2014
quotequote all
mrdemon said:
Alfa 4C is good lol every one else hates it (or it comes last in every test), and 991 electric steering is good, !!!

this man is on drugs, I won't even talk about N spec.
n
As a Veyron owner you are obviously entitled to your opinion

sean ie3

2,019 posts

137 months

Wednesday 19th November 2014
quotequote all
My RX8 has electric power steering and i've no qualms about saying it steers as well as any performance car that i have owned or driven , as far as tyres go ,it came out of the factory with RE040 bridgestones and i know run it with RE050's and there is a marked difference giving more feedback front and rear .I know recognise that there is probably a less expensive tyre available with similar perfomance to the RE040's but hey , a better tyre is a better tyre ,yes?


k-ink

9,070 posts

180 months

Wednesday 19th November 2014
quotequote all
I've always said the 106 has one of the best steering feel of any car out there.

sanctum

191 posts

176 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
Looking at this guys own cars and ones he praises, he clearly isn't concerned with going fast, just a rewarding drive. Top bloke, more like him please!

stats007

531 posts

236 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
"How do you know which tyres will suit your car best? If they're still being made, then the tyres that were developed for it, he tells us predictability"

That's reasonable advice, however manufacturer's chose a tyre based on overall cost and whatever marketing deal they've struck.

jon-

16,511 posts

217 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
stats007 said:
"How do you know which tyres will suit your car best? If they're still being made, then the tyres that were developed for it, he tells us predictability"

That's reasonable advice, however manufacturer's chose a tyre based on overall cost and whatever marketing deal they've struck.
As we all know it's a little more than picking the OE tyre, and like most things it comes down to personal preference. At touched on in the article, the OE might have specified a tyre which leans towards comfort, to reduce noise/NVH on their "sports" car, whereas you might have no interest in a quiet cabin, but want the best feedback possible.

Trying new tyres is so exciting and interesting, I'm always surprised when people who claim to be into driving, just bolt on whatever they've already got on, or whatever the garage have on offer.

Brummmie

5,284 posts

222 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
I used to be in the Motorcycle tyre industry for a long time, and i know that the Japs for instance used to be very patriotic on tyre manufacture choice, as long as it was "good enough" and from the preferred factory then this was what it got, so you can improve on the OE fitment.
I know from one of the tyre testers (who was a Brit) from one of the big four this was fact, even if he leant towards a European brand.
I also did the tyre testing for the Pirelli wets back in the day, and it was done on Wednesday afternoon at the very Glamorous Mallory Park, and it never failed to rain!

iloveboost

1,531 posts

163 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
sean ie3 said:
My RX8 has electric power steering and i've no qualms about saying it steers as well as any performance car that i have owned or driven , as far as tyres go ,it came out of the factory with RE040 bridgestones and i know run it with RE050's and there is a marked difference giving more feedback front and rear .I know recognise that there is probably a less expensive tyre available with similar perfomance to the RE040's but hey , a better tyre is a better tyre ,yes?
I know tyres slightly affect steering feel but I don't think it's as big a difference as Michelin man or some others think. However I've not got any track experience like a lot of people on here so I'm maybe wrong and just can't feel the small differences others can.
I agree that electric power steering can be good and I think part of the problem is that some electric power steering types are worse than others. Seems like the worst is the column mounted type and the best is mounted directly in the rack. It's only in theory though and I know the calibration plays a big part in how steering feels.
It seems like electro-hydraulic steering is the best of both worlds in terms of feel and economy. I guess it isn't used because it costs more and is less reliable than electric power steering.

When electric power steering is good it's like an average hydraulic or electro hydraulic system. When it's bad though it makes driving feel less enjoyable and less safe. The Peugeot 208 is the worst car I've ever driven for steering feel. It's also the worst car I've ever driven for many, many other reasons I'll resist ranting about now.

jon-

16,511 posts

217 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
iloveboost said:
sean ie3 said:
My RX8 has electric power steering and i've no qualms about saying it steers as well as any performance car that i have owned or driven , as far as tyres go ,it came out of the factory with RE040 bridgestones and i know run it with RE050's and there is a marked difference giving more feedback front and rear .I know recognise that there is probably a less expensive tyre available with similar perfomance to the RE040's but hey , a better tyre is a better tyre ,yes?
I know tyres slightly affect steering feel but I don't think it's as big a difference as Michelin man or some others think. However I've not got any track experience like a lot of people on here so I'm maybe wrong and just can't feel the small differences others can.
You start off arguing with a guy that tests tyres for a living, then go on to comment you have no experience on the subject?!

I test tyres, and trust me, when you're doing comparison tests on identical vehicles the difference is incredible.

crosseyedlion

2,175 posts

199 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
jon- said:
iloveboost said:
sean ie3 said:
My RX8 has electric power steering and i've no qualms about saying it steers as well as any performance car that i have owned or driven , as far as tyres go ,it came out of the factory with RE040 bridgestones and i know run it with RE050's and there is a marked difference giving more feedback front and rear .I know recognise that there is probably a less expensive tyre available with similar perfomance to the RE040's but hey , a better tyre is a better tyre ,yes?
I know tyres slightly affect steering feel but I don't think it's as big a difference as Michelin man or some others think. However I've not got any track experience like a lot of people on here so I'm maybe wrong and just can't feel the small differences others can.
You start off arguing with a guy that tests tyres for a living, then go on to comment you have no experience on the subject?!

I test tyres, and trust me, when you're doing comparison tests on identical vehicles the difference is incredible.
Ahh the internet. Where its acceptable to think uninformed opinions trump experts.

In a previous role it was heavily based on subjective testing for an OEM, I'd agree that tyres can transform the ability and character of a car.

errek72

943 posts

247 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
stats007 said:
"How do you know which tyres will suit your car best? If they're still being made, then the tyres that were developed for it, he tells us predictability"

That's reasonable advice, however manufacturer's chose a tyre based on overall cost and whatever marketing deal they've struck.
In some cases at minimum.

Odd thing and what speaks for the guy is that the 4C he says to like (he must not have known that this is politically incorrect for UK readers) is on made to measure Pirelli's. We live in an age where company employees are less biased than journo's.

Krikkit

26,536 posts

182 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
k-ink said:
I've always said the 106 has one of the best steering feel of any car out there.
I had a quicker rack fitted to mine and I'd agree - the steering was one of if not the best bit.

I'd be interested to know what tyres he recommends for his 106 - got his email PH? tongue out

David87

6,659 posts

213 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
I wonder what he things of Nankangs or Linglongs, etc.? hehe