Patek, 5712R or 5711R, whic

[anonymous-user]

So, lets assume for a moment, you wanted a rose gold Patek, you preferred the 'sports' style rather than dress watch, and you had decided against an AP.

Would you prefer a 5711R with the rose gold bracelet



Or a 5712R with the brown leather strap, moonphase, power reserve complications?



All thoughts welcome

[sealtt]

For me it would be a very easy choice, the 5711R in full rose gold. So much presence, it's great to wear - and the colouring of the RG is perfection.

[x5x3]

just get both....

[PJ S]

Sorry, but it would have to be the Audemars Piguet 15400OR – with the blue dial.

[anonymous-user]

PJ S said:

Sorry, but it would have to be the Audemars Piguet 15400OR – with the blue dial.

Yeah, I know what you mean, it's a cool watch... and so this might sound contentious but... perhaps because the shape of the dial is so distinctive and clearly "AP Royal Oak", it's quite showy (perhaps this is also linked to the number of footballers who wear AP).

The Patek Nautilus is on the other hand a bit more subtle and lovely

[PJ S]

With respect Eddie, being full gold watches, both are unlikely to ever go unnoticed!
That said, I doubt anyone will say anything, but if you’re looking for something that says very little, but will positively fly well under the radar, then you should be looking at FP Journe.

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/fpjourne/centigraphe-sp...
https://www.chrono24.co.uk/fpjourne/octa-sport-ind...

Heck, for what you’re preparing to spend on the 5711 or 12, you could have two FP Journes, especially the Chronometre Bleu, with its Tantalum case.

FWIW, FPJ makes 800 or so watches per annum, Patek (unofficially) makes ten times that number.
Just goes to demonstrate true exclusivity.

And I’m slightly trying to steer you from being so Patek focused as their QC (internal since 2014, iirc) has gone down demonstrably.

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=424459
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=434013
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=453629

[sealtt]

I was concerned about that PJ S, going to collect a new 5205R tomorrow. Will make sure to get it under the loupe at the store before bringing it home. But the watch is just a piece I'm in love with, so I'm not put off by the stories, will just take more care in accepting the piece.

Nothing subtle about the 5711R or 5712R! Probably even more flashy than a full gold AP or Rolex in my opinion, having worn them side by side.

[x5x3]

PJ S said:

With respect Eddie, being full gold watches, both are unlikely to ever go unnoticed!
That said, I doubt anyone will say anything, but if you’re looking for something that says very little, but will positively fly well under the radar, then you should be looking at FP Journe.

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/fpjourne/centigraphe-sp...
https://www.chrono24.co.uk/fpjourne/octa-sport-ind...

Heck, for what you’re preparing to spend on the 5711 or 12, you could have two FP Journes, especially the Chronometre Bleu, with its Tantalum case.

sorry to be a bit confrontational - but - how are they even vaguely a comparison to the Pateks mentioned?

[PJ S]

x5x3 said:

sorry to be a bit confrontational - but - how are they even vaguely a comparison to the Pateks mentioned?

They’re not directly, other than being FPJ’s ‘elegant sports’ watch – but if the OP was leaning towards the 5712, then there are comparable FPJs with PR and moonphase in a gold (or even platinum) case, on a leather strap.
The point was merely to create a bit of thought provoking, especially the exclusivity element, and the concern over the considered watches potentially looking shouty.

[tigerkoi]

x5x3 said:

PJ S said:

With respect Eddie, being full gold watches, both are unlikely to ever go unnoticed!
That said, I doubt anyone will say anything, but if you’re looking for something that says very little, but will positively fly well under the radar, then you should be looking at FP Journe.

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/fpjourne/centigraphe-sp...
https://www.chrono24.co.uk/fpjourne/octa-sport-ind...

Heck, for what you’re preparing to spend on the 5711 or 12, you could have two FP Journes, especially the Chronometre Bleu, with its Tantalum case.

sorry to be a bit confrontational - but - how are they even vaguely a comparison to the Pateks mentioned?

Patek is nice, but anything crafted - crafted being the operative word - by François-Paul Journe knocks them out the park.

I really, really like the Nautilus. I have an AP 15703, but a 5990 would edge it off the wrist when I can get round to it. And WoS had a lovely cream (white dial) 5711 in store a couple of months back. Already sold, the team let me indulge myself, trying to tantalise me into a lengthy waiting list....yes....Patek is nice.

But the differences between what are in essence luxury items from a worldwide brand (PP) and what are fine examples of high-end horology (F-PJ) really make sense when you actually handle them and see them up close.

The internet is great for many things, but an LCD can't always do healthy justice to exquisite metallurgical and mechanical products.

If you get a chance, flip an F-PJ over.

Through the case back, if you can appreciate those things, then you'll get it.





You are playing with a completely different level of watchmaking.

PP is a global brand. A lot is made of the 'trinity': Audemars Piguet, Patek Philippe and Vacheron Constantin. But most of these companies' products are simply there to sate the demand of non-connessieurs who are looking to graduate from the masses. Comparing F-PJ to Patek is like comparing some Zagato concept to a Micra fresh out of Sunderland.

A bit like Layer Cake, ha! You wake up, and one day your mum and dad give you Tag 2000 for your 21st. You get a job, make a little money and notice that every other middle manager has the same watch (yes, a Rolex). So that becomes your uniform along with the naff suit and pointy shoes. If you're lucky, and not *that* into watches you sort of stop there. You've got the 'brand', and all you might do is move from a Submariner to a GMTII, comparing your heirloom (please....like your son will even give a damn when you pass him on your old battered desk diver with dewy eyes as you are mildly drunk one embarrassing night!) with your groovy uncle's 1977 Day-Date ("...yeah like all the Presidents of 'Murica wear yeah") at your cousins wedding....

If you do stay on the ladder, then tired of seeing everyone and their dog on the Rolex tip, you think to yourself..."damn I like that weird looking one that Floyd Mayweather wears in all those videos when he's lying on a bed of cash between two thong clad honeyz!". You go AP. This is where my bus has currently stopped. For my sins.

Or, you feel like you want to exude a certain refined taste. You then move towards PP. Want to send a message that you sit aside from the crowd, then Vacheron presses certain buttons.

And unless you're Benjamin Clymer or Vladimir Putin you sort of forget about the really obscure vintage stuff. Just stay on track with what can be bought down Bond Street or in Gustavia...

Of course forks in the road may lead you down Blancpain or Breguet or JLC or Ulysee Nardin or Linde Werdelin or Zenith or....

But for those who literally want the finest in craftsmanship, think, sleep, eat....high-end watchmaking, think of George Daniels as greater than God, and John Harrison being more influential to England's fortunes than Sir Walter Raleigh....then you leave all that stuff behind. It's then a world of Philippe Dufour, Voutilainen, Romain Gaulthier (check out his Logical One!)...and F.P. Journe.

Edited by tigerkoi on Friday 22 January 23:57

[x5x3]

many thanks - and apologies if we have hijacked the thread!

I certainly remember my first Tag and of course first Rolex, although somewhere between those two I did migrate to Boss suits and shoes for work

5990 is a very lovely thing, I have a 5711 and plan this year to add a 5905P-001 to the collection.

The one thing you missed from your expansive description (and yes I enjoyed reading every word) was the most basic - a watch has to appeal visually and I personally find the F-PJ collection pretty ugly.

Sorry if that upsets anyone but I could never buy something which in my opinion does not look stunning.

It would be interesting to hear the OP's views on F-PJ as he is the one with the imminent purchase?

[anonymous-user]

x5x3 said:

The one thing you missed from your expansive description (and yes I enjoyed reading every word) was the most basic - a watch has to appeal visually and I personally find the F-PJ collection pretty ugly.

Sorry if that upsets anyone but I could never buy something which in my opinion does not look stunning.

It would be interesting to hear the OP's views on F-PJ as he is the one with the imminent purchase?

To be honest, I wasn't that familiar with F-PJ. It was interesting to look in more detail at the different designs they offer.

Certainly I appreciate the detailing and they do look very well crafted.

In terms of the design, my first thought was they are a bit too stylised for my taste. Looking at some of the designs in the range, they initially reminded me of the interior of one of those now defunct Spyker concept cars.

Still, beautiful watches, and I'm sure the ideal watch for the right person

[tigerkoi]

x5x3 said:

many thanks - and apologies if we have hijacked the thread!

I certainly remember my first Tag and of course first Rolex, although somewhere between those two I did migrate to Boss suits and shoes for work

5990 is a very lovely thing, I have a 5711 and plan this year to add a 5905P-001 to the collection.

The one thing you missed from your expansive description (and yes I enjoyed reading every word) was the most basic - a watch has to appeal visually and I personally find the F-PJ collection pretty ugly.

Sorry if that upsets anyone but I could never buy something which in my opinion does not look stunning.

It would be interesting to hear the OP's views on F-PJ as he is the one with the imminent purchase?

5905....now that is a fine, fine watch. Would love to see pictures when you do acquire it!

You are right - to wear and purchase a watch, it has to be one that you find aesthetically pleasing, and I can appreciate that you have to have a specific palate to enjoy (FP Journe & others) them. But I got to have a very close look at one recently and the micro work was absolutely enthralling.

What I enjoy about most about watches though is just exploring brands that are a bit more off the beaten track. Sort of in the same way, when I see an Alfa Romeo SZ, I do stop and drink it in. But as for buying and driving one day to day? Nah!

On my side, a target date for the 5990 is circled on the calendar, but a Fifty Fathoms might just get in there first!

Sorry OP if we've digressed

[sealtt]

Whilst I was picking up my 5205 today they had a 5711R which I thought I might change my mind for. Having tried the 5980R full gold before, I thought it was going to steal the show. However unlike the 5980, the 5711R is very slim.

For my taste it lacks a degree of the presence that I loved about the 5980. As such I would change my opinion and not go for a 5711R. Lovely though it is, it didn't do it for me personally.

[anonymous-user]

sealtt said:

Whilst I was picking up my 5205 today they had a 5711R which I thought I might change my mind for. Having tried the 5980R full gold before, I thought it was going to steal the show. However unlike the 5980, the 5711R is very slim.

For my taste it lacks a degree of the presence that I loved about the 5980. As such I would change my opinion and not go for a 5711R. Lovely though it is, it didn't do it for me personally.

Funnily enough, I went to look at the 5711R yesterday as well, and have now ruled this one out.

I was thinking...[whisper it]... did it look a little old fashioned? Or it could have been just like that on my wrist.

[sealtt]

EddieSteadyGo said:

Funnily enough, I went to look at the 5711R yesterday as well, and have now ruled this one out.

I was thinking...[whisper it]... did it look a little old fashioned? Or it could have been just like that on my wrist.

That's exactly what I thought, it's due to the slim profile. It's a stunning watch, but I felt more like it would be better suited for someone quite a bit older than me. The 5980 with its chunky case looks much more contemporary, not sporty like an AP, but just a bit more modern - and sat very nicely on my wrist. If you dont live in London an AP should be fairly good at fitting in, certainly no worse than a full gold Patek

Edited by sealtt on Sunday 24th January 12:35

[x5x3]

EddieSteadyGo said:

Funnily enough, I went to look at the 5711R yesterday as well, and have now ruled this one out.

I was thinking...[whisper it]... did it look a little old fashioned? Or it could have been just like that on my wrist.

I'd definitely agree with that - the other problem I have with mine is when it sits next to the Deep Sea it really does look puny!

tigerkoi said:

5905....now that is a fine, fine watch. Would love to see pictures when you do acquire it!

indeed - not quite my grail watch but probably my last purchase. Trouble is blue or black dial? And believe it or not it will be the first watch I have bought with a leather strap

OP - I'm hoping you are ok with us straying a little off-topic - if not please do shout and we'll try to stay on topic.....

[anonymous-user]

x5x3 said:

re ok with us straying a little off-topic - if not please do shout and we'll try to stay on topic.....

It's absolutely fine with me. I'm enjoying reading the contributions

[tigerkoi]

x5x3 said:

EddieSteadyGo said:

Funnily enough, I went to look at the 5711R yesterday as well, and have now ruled this one out.

I was thinking...[whisper it]... did it look a little old fashioned? Or it could have been just like that on my wrist.

I'd definitely agree with that - the other problem I have with mine is when it sits next to the Deep Sea it really does look puny!

tigerkoi said:

5905....now that is a fine, fine watch. Would love to see pictures when you do acquire it!

indeed - not quite my grail watch but probably my last purchase. Trouble is blue or black dial? And believe it or not it will be the first watch I have bought with a leather strap

How can it be your last purchase? There's so much good stuff out there that it would take a remarkable amount of self-restraint for me to commit like that ha!

As for the 5905... How could you go wrong with either dial? Personally, if it was my money I would aim for blue. The deep shade they use really pops and draws your eye in from a distance. Whereas the black is more hit and miss. But that's a very personal view. Either way, it's a lovely bit of kit.

When I first strayed from a stainless steel bracelet it took me a little time to get used to it. But now I enjoy switching between my rubber strapped, leather and SS watches and the changes all make me appreciate the different ones more. Then again, regarding PP, it's a moot point: I've never seen a non-Nautilus on anything but...

....as a segue to the OP's challenge, my preference if shooting for a gold Nautilus would be on a brown leather strap. My thinking is that when it comes to gold bracelet'd watches, then nothing beats a 36mm Day-Date. The Presidential is as good as any when it comes to shape retention over time, which for me is important. The qualities of gold are many but softness and stretching do are common for many manufacturers. That and Vacheron Constantin's Overseas version....

EddieSteadyGo said:

x5x3 said:

re ok with us straying a little off-topic - if not please do shout and we'll try to stay on topic.....

It's absolutely fine with me. I'm enjoying reading the contributions

Most gracious of you! The watches forum tends to rarely stray beyond first time purchasers wanting to know future resale cost, so always enjoyable to see and contribute on more expansive debate

[critical mass]

Never really been a fan of PP but recently saw a new Gondolo in white gold with a blue face. Just stunning.