Retaining wall - Block or Sleeper
Discussion
Good monring,
I’m starting my garden kitchen build at the weekend and as part of the build I need to build a retaining wall, the wall will create the literal wall on 2 sides of the kitchen so will need to be about 2.4 meters tall, but it will only be retaining about 1.5 meters of earth at the highest point.
I was planning to use breezeblocks, and then render it and paint, but this seems very labour intensive and I've never laid a wall before, let alone rendered anything.
So I've also considered doing a sleeper wall, putting 3 meter sleepers vertically, concreted in the ground, and tied together near the top with a metal band. This would also give a nice "rustic" finish and I personally would prefer this finish to a rendered wall.
I would put some landscaping fabric up against the back of the sleepers and then a layer of gravel for drainage.
Any thoughts on either design, or any other ideas?
Thanks
I’m starting my garden kitchen build at the weekend and as part of the build I need to build a retaining wall, the wall will create the literal wall on 2 sides of the kitchen so will need to be about 2.4 meters tall, but it will only be retaining about 1.5 meters of earth at the highest point.
I was planning to use breezeblocks, and then render it and paint, but this seems very labour intensive and I've never laid a wall before, let alone rendered anything.
So I've also considered doing a sleeper wall, putting 3 meter sleepers vertically, concreted in the ground, and tied together near the top with a metal band. This would also give a nice "rustic" finish and I personally would prefer this finish to a rendered wall.
I would put some landscaping fabric up against the back of the sleepers and then a layer of gravel for drainage.
Any thoughts on either design, or any other ideas?
Thanks
I would be concerned about the longevity of sleepers.
M & M Timber have a product called Unilog which comes with a 15 or 30 year service life warranty.
http://www.mmtimber.co.uk/unilogpro
M & M Timber have a product called Unilog which comes with a 15 or 30 year service life warranty.
http://www.mmtimber.co.uk/unilogpro
I'd echo the above regarding sleepers but that's assuming softwood. If you were to get some reclaimed jobs in a tropical hardwood like Azobe they'll still be there 50 years time.
That said I build a raised bed area at the end of my garden using softwood sleepers, I loosened the soil at the back of them and dumped a load of broken concrete, bricks etc. against the foot of them to help with drainage, I then stapled builders polythene to the back of them (i.e. what they use under concrete floors for damp proofing) before backfilling with soil. They've been down a few years now and still look new.
That said I build a raised bed area at the end of my garden using softwood sleepers, I loosened the soil at the back of them and dumped a load of broken concrete, bricks etc. against the foot of them to help with drainage, I then stapled builders polythene to the back of them (i.e. what they use under concrete floors for damp proofing) before backfilling with soil. They've been down a few years now and still look new.
My advice would be not to use sleepers
In early 2010 I had my garden landscaped using sleepers set vertically into concrete.
Earlier this year I had my garden landscaped again. This time using concrete blocks, rebarred vertically and horizontally and faced with natural stone.
Why???
Because the sleepers were rotten!!
6 years and some were completely shot. If I was building an extension that relied on a nearby retaining wall I'd use blocks and reinforce them. As sure as eggs is eggs sleeepers will not last, even with matting and drainage etc.
In addition I'm not sure building control would be happy
In early 2010 I had my garden landscaped using sleepers set vertically into concrete.
Earlier this year I had my garden landscaped again. This time using concrete blocks, rebarred vertically and horizontally and faced with natural stone.
Why???
Because the sleepers were rotten!!
6 years and some were completely shot. If I was building an extension that relied on a nearby retaining wall I'd use blocks and reinforce them. As sure as eggs is eggs sleeepers will not last, even with matting and drainage etc.
In addition I'm not sure building control would be happy
Forget the longevity, sleepers won't stand the weight without snapping. Plus an embedded retaining wall needs to be two thirds in the ground and 1 third out.
At 1.5m high you really should get the thing deigned, not just stab a guess and start building, but for a masonry gravity wall a rough rule of thumb is to make it 1/3 the thickness of the retained height, ie 500mm thick for yours. That can be by laying a front face and then pouring concrete behind.
At 1.5m high you really should get the thing deigned, not just stab a guess and start building, but for a masonry gravity wall a rough rule of thumb is to make it 1/3 the thickness of the retained height, ie 500mm thick for yours. That can be by laying a front face and then pouring concrete behind.
Tom_C76 said:
Forget the longevity, sleepers won't stand the weight without snapping. Plus an embedded retaining wall needs to be two thirds in the ground and 1 third out.
At 1.5m high you really should get the thing deigned, not just stab a guess and start building, but for a masonry gravity wall a rough rule of thumb is to make it 1/3 the thickness of the retained height, ie 500mm thick for yours. That can be by laying a front face and then pouring concrete behind.
1.5 meters was a genourous guess, it's less than that, and besides the slope is already "self supporting" so it's only the bottom section of the slope I am chipping away.At 1.5m high you really should get the thing deigned, not just stab a guess and start building, but for a masonry gravity wall a rough rule of thumb is to make it 1/3 the thickness of the retained height, ie 500mm thick for yours. That can be by laying a front face and then pouring concrete behind.
Here is my comprehensive scientifically accurate diagram:
Nice diagram! 
Sleepers: There's been a recent thread here on the use of sleepers as retaining walls. I've used them, but OLD, reclaimed sleepers, and they were brilliant. They're still in that garden some 12 years later.
Using new oak sleepers, it seems, they're not the lasting kind.
Sleepers: There's been a recent thread here on the use of sleepers as retaining walls. I've used them, but OLD, reclaimed sleepers, and they were brilliant. They're still in that garden some 12 years later.
Using new oak sleepers, it seems, they're not the lasting kind.
sidekickdmr said:
As this is going to end up as an "internal wall" I dont really want wire and stones on show.
Someone above mentioned timber faced Gabions, cant seem to find anything on them online.....
Thinking aloud but if the Gabions were well filled and as they are made of galvanised wire can you then render over them. Probably a stupid idea but you never know Someone above mentioned timber faced Gabions, cant seem to find anything on them online.....
The Slope may be stable now but you are taking its base away. Where is the water from behind going to drain too?
I Would look at building a little stub wall, breeze blocks filled with concrete with drainage behind. Then you can but almost anything in front of it as it will be purely decorative.
I Would look at building a little stub wall, breeze blocks filled with concrete with drainage behind. Then you can but almost anything in front of it as it will be purely decorative.
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