Photographic Evidence Speeding
Discussion
Hi I received an NIP for an alleged speeding offence from a mobile unit 'in excess of 30mph'. I cannot recall who was driving at the time (myself or my partner) amd have requested photographic evidence on this basis.
I requested ALL photographs (and the speed), in writing, and have been provided with 1 photo of the rear of the car. The speed has been scrubbed out with a biro. If we were speeding fair enough.
My question is this - is more tham one photo required and why refuse to disclose the actual speed?
Thanks fo your help.
I requested ALL photographs (and the speed), in writing, and have been provided with 1 photo of the rear of the car. The speed has been scrubbed out with a biro. If we were speeding fair enough.
My question is this - is more tham one photo required and why refuse to disclose the actual speed?
Thanks fo your help.
Get yourself over to www.pepipoo.com
Could be their evidence is flawed if they are not willing to show you the speed. Fight the evil barstewards with every last breath
Could be their evidence is flawed if they are not willing to show you the speed. Fight the evil barstewards with every last breath
have a look on the peppipoo and abd websites. Seems to me they have no evidence and if the speed is scrubbed in biro thats tampering with evidence. No doubt the BiBs on here will say cough up, but even if you have no points its worth fighting them off to try to keep a clean license. You Hamilton defense may work as a backstop but I would try getting it dismissed on the basis of tampering. The so called authorities cannot accuse you of speeding and offer you a fixed penalty on the basis of an unspecified speed. If they have scrubbed the speed out it is possibly because you were under the limit or the reading is ludicrous. Remember, this is war. 
^Slider^ said:
They have no idea who was driving so dont actually need to disclose the speed.
Tampering with eveidence.. No because the copy they have is not evidential. As is only intended to assist in identifying to the Nipped person who was driving.
In court the original copy will be provided.
Since the speed isnt indicated on the nip, isnt this like being asked to sign a confesstion without being told the details of the crime you were supposed to have commited?
I get the feeling the speed was 31 or something stupid and they know it wouldnt stand up in court
sadako said:
They have no idea who was driving so dont actually need to disclose the speed.
Tampering with eveidence.. No because the copy they have is not evidential. As is only intended to assist in identifying to the Nipped person who was driving.
In court the original copy will be provided.
Since the speed isnt indicated on the nip, isnt this like being asked to sign a confesstion without being told the details of the crime you were supposed to have commited?
I get the feeling the speed was 31 or something stupid and they know it wouldnt stand up in court
Yeah every chance thats the case. Shamefull.
But, the offence is excess 30.
They are signing to say who was the driver at that time.
Not that the driver was speeding.
Once they know who the was driver then the alligation can be made.
At the end of the day a nomination needs to be made as per S172. Doesnt matter if the speed was 31/30 or 51/30 the nomination still has to be made.
You are not able at this stage to argue if the speed recorded is correct, correctly signed untill you are offered the Efpn or a court date!
Gareth
They are signing to say who was the driver at that time.
Not that the driver was speeding.
Once they know who the was driver then the alligation can be made.
At the end of the day a nomination needs to be made as per S172. Doesnt matter if the speed was 31/30 or 51/30 the nomination still has to be made.
You are not able at this stage to argue if the speed recorded is correct, correctly signed untill you are offered the Efpn or a court date!
Gareth
The driver at the time of the alleged offence has the right to privacy; although this is in some way contradicted by sending the NIP to the RK of the vehicle, perhaps the speed was removed to protect the driver.
As Slider's correctly pointed out, the photo sent out won't be evidential; it is either a copy of the original, to aid identification of the driver, or a further copy produced from the video, which would remain as the primary evidence.
As I understand it, the device only produces prints at the time to enable the technician to later scroll through the video tape to check on the offences - checks and balances if you will (accepting of course that there is some question on the reliability of certain laser/readr speed measurement devices).
And I'd be very sceptical if it WAS 31mph in a 30...
As Slider's correctly pointed out, the photo sent out won't be evidential; it is either a copy of the original, to aid identification of the driver, or a further copy produced from the video, which would remain as the primary evidence.
As I understand it, the device only produces prints at the time to enable the technician to later scroll through the video tape to check on the offences - checks and balances if you will (accepting of course that there is some question on the reliability of certain laser/readr speed measurement devices).
And I'd be very sceptical if it WAS 31mph in a 30...
Thanks Guys - Its really odd - you can actually see the first number of the speed is a 3 but the second number is too obscured.
The reason I ask the question really is that
a) I have 15 years clean licence and
b) this same camera did my boyfriend in December (he refused to fight, but i would have). We wrote the same letter on receipt of the NIP and got a standard reply with 2 photos - the speed was not obscured (36mph in a 30!). Anyway since then we have both been really careful. The accompanying letter i got yesterday is personalised and very threatening (in my opinion) I also got an NIP reminder in the post on the same say. Basically I'm not having it. Its a fight they want its a fight they got. I have just been and bought The Drivers Survival Handbook too.
The reason I ask the question really is that
a) I have 15 years clean licence and
b) this same camera did my boyfriend in December (he refused to fight, but i would have). We wrote the same letter on receipt of the NIP and got a standard reply with 2 photos - the speed was not obscured (36mph in a 30!). Anyway since then we have both been really careful. The accompanying letter i got yesterday is personalised and very threatening (in my opinion) I also got an NIP reminder in the post on the same say. Basically I'm not having it. Its a fight they want its a fight they got. I have just been and bought The Drivers Survival Handbook too.
Nippersgirl said:
Basically I'm not having it. Its a fight they want its a fight they got. I have just been and bought The Drivers Survival Handbook too.
I think you'd have been better having a good look at some of the other web sites already mentioned, or seeing a CAB solicitor or the like.
I'm led to believe the book isn't worth the paper it's oprinted on - lots of the info being either out of date or incorrect...
Dibble said:
I think you'd have been better having a good look at some of the other web sites already mentioned, or seeing a CAB solicitor or the like.
I'm led to believe the book isn't worth the paper it's oprinted on - lots of the info being either out of date or incorrect...
You're right, it's a collection of quite outdated stuff, loopholes that have been plugged long ago etc.
Dibble said:
But, the offence is excess 30.
Beaten to it - as Slider points out correctly (again), the offence is exceeding 30mph speed limit, not travelling at XX.XXmph.
This will come later, in the statement of facts issued with summons etc etc.
How can you plead guilty to the offence of exceeding the 30mph speed limit if the prosecution fails to state any speed at all? Or am I missing something?
buckshee said:
How can you plead guilty to the offence of exceeding the 30mph speed limit if the prosecution fails to state any speed at all? Or am I missing something?
At this stage, noone's being asked to admit to anything. An NIP has been sent out, with details of the vehicle and the alleged offence. The photo asked for has been supplied to try and aid identification of the driver at the time of the alleged offence.
Naming/identifying the driver is NOT the same as an admission of guilt. It is then up to the driver whether he or she wants to admit or deny the alleged offence.
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