Not Your Everyday Race Car - The Mighty Citroen
Discussion
I've been racing for quite a few years now, from Locost to Porsche, single seaters to saloons and one of the highlights of the 15+ years has been the 2CV 24 hour race, which a few PHers entered as a team way back in 2007.
It was a way of spending relatively little (under £2k, everything's relative in motorsport) yet getting the experience of racing through the night, just like Le Mans. One of my fondest racing memories is doing the graveyard shift as the sun came up and Snetterton went from night to morning.
The then team manager (Rich, more of him later) and I always said we'd do it again but never got round to it and with the scarcity of viable 2CVs and the increasing cost of building a car we'd only realistically use a couple of times a year, we thought that was it. Short of buying a seat with an established 2CV team, we'd only be able to do a 24 hour race again if we shelled out for something like the Silverstone 24, which was a world away in terms of cost. Even the car we currently drive, a Boxster would need a lot of work and the entry and running costs would be prohibitive.
But then Rich got wind that, thanks to falling numbers of 2CVs in the 24h they were considering a new class for something more modern, and a plan was hatched.
Ebay, Gumtree and local bomb-site garages were searched, breakers were called; the base car wasn't going to be found in Racecarsdirect or the PH classifieds. Eventually we tracked down a low mileage example near Pontefract and as I was passing, I went and gave it a look over - it was perfect and the deal was done - a Citroen C1, in Yorkshire Racing Blue with 46k on the clock and a Cat C recorded for a bent wing and cracked bumper.
68bhp of pure power and a free CD in the player 'Old Skool(sic) Rave Classics' that kept me entertained up the A1 for all of a junction.
The rules state that not a lot can be done to the car to make it go faster apart from taking out the seats and the carpets, which we'll then replace with a great big metal cage and a fire extinguisher. No engine mods, no wikkid 'zorst, no Pipercross 'yeah mate, adds 20 horses' air filters and no modifications to the head or bottom end.
68bhp is what it came with and it's my job to try and make sure it still has 68bhp at the end of 24 hours racing.
So far I've put it up on axle stands, pulled the bumper off and taken a load of bits off in a fairly random order, thus:
Bought a load of new bits, the kind of things you service it with and the kind of things that go wrong; plugs, filters, belts, water pump and alternator:
(that's the old alternator next to the new one by the way, we're not made of money! I just wanted to make sure they were the same before I fitted it).
I then drained the coolant by spraying it all over the engine bay (it has a drain plug, how novel. I just pulled the bottom hose off and then did the other hoses one by one. Should have waited for the Haynes manual).
And that's where we are today, a granny-car and a pile of bits that need to be a race car by spring.
I have a reasonable mechanical knowledge from maintaining and fixing cars over the years but I'm an IT manager, not a race car engineer.
I'm under no impressions, there's loads to do (this is just the start) but having not done this before I'm naively working on the premise that it's just a case of working out the things I'd expect to be done to my race car by a professional builder, then learning how to do them myself. Easy!
Oh, the other problem, I'm in North Yorkshire and my build partner is in Gloucestershire, so guess who's doing the majority of the work (I get a lot of encouragement by text though).
Updates as and when I do something noteworthy/break something/need advice - Wish me luck.
More random pics:
Bumper inside the car, I'm not overburdened with space at home so it seemed a good place for now:
Where the drain plug is and where the alternator was:
It was a way of spending relatively little (under £2k, everything's relative in motorsport) yet getting the experience of racing through the night, just like Le Mans. One of my fondest racing memories is doing the graveyard shift as the sun came up and Snetterton went from night to morning.
The then team manager (Rich, more of him later) and I always said we'd do it again but never got round to it and with the scarcity of viable 2CVs and the increasing cost of building a car we'd only realistically use a couple of times a year, we thought that was it. Short of buying a seat with an established 2CV team, we'd only be able to do a 24 hour race again if we shelled out for something like the Silverstone 24, which was a world away in terms of cost. Even the car we currently drive, a Boxster would need a lot of work and the entry and running costs would be prohibitive.
But then Rich got wind that, thanks to falling numbers of 2CVs in the 24h they were considering a new class for something more modern, and a plan was hatched.
Ebay, Gumtree and local bomb-site garages were searched, breakers were called; the base car wasn't going to be found in Racecarsdirect or the PH classifieds. Eventually we tracked down a low mileage example near Pontefract and as I was passing, I went and gave it a look over - it was perfect and the deal was done - a Citroen C1, in Yorkshire Racing Blue with 46k on the clock and a Cat C recorded for a bent wing and cracked bumper.
68bhp of pure power and a free CD in the player 'Old Skool(sic) Rave Classics' that kept me entertained up the A1 for all of a junction.
The rules state that not a lot can be done to the car to make it go faster apart from taking out the seats and the carpets, which we'll then replace with a great big metal cage and a fire extinguisher. No engine mods, no wikkid 'zorst, no Pipercross 'yeah mate, adds 20 horses' air filters and no modifications to the head or bottom end.
68bhp is what it came with and it's my job to try and make sure it still has 68bhp at the end of 24 hours racing.
So far I've put it up on axle stands, pulled the bumper off and taken a load of bits off in a fairly random order, thus:
Bought a load of new bits, the kind of things you service it with and the kind of things that go wrong; plugs, filters, belts, water pump and alternator:
(that's the old alternator next to the new one by the way, we're not made of money! I just wanted to make sure they were the same before I fitted it).
I then drained the coolant by spraying it all over the engine bay (it has a drain plug, how novel. I just pulled the bottom hose off and then did the other hoses one by one. Should have waited for the Haynes manual).
And that's where we are today, a granny-car and a pile of bits that need to be a race car by spring.
I have a reasonable mechanical knowledge from maintaining and fixing cars over the years but I'm an IT manager, not a race car engineer.
I'm under no impressions, there's loads to do (this is just the start) but having not done this before I'm naively working on the premise that it's just a case of working out the things I'd expect to be done to my race car by a professional builder, then learning how to do them myself. Easy!
Oh, the other problem, I'm in North Yorkshire and my build partner is in Gloucestershire, so guess who's doing the majority of the work (I get a lot of encouragement by text though).
Updates as and when I do something noteworthy/break something/need advice - Wish me luck.
More random pics:
Bumper inside the car, I'm not overburdened with space at home so it seemed a good place for now:
Where the drain plug is and where the alternator was:
kiethton said:
Very interesting, why a C1 vs. something like a C2/C3 (assume it has to be Citroen?)
Because them's the rules. Plus the C1 is designed to be cheap and simple for young drivers.Here's one someone did earlier.
http://www.bridgetogantry.com/yes-we-just-built-a-...
Amazing! Loved the article linked too. Years ago I wanted to do the 2CV 24hrs in some way or another (spanner or drive - in all likelihood, a spanner driving!), but it's moved further and further from reach. Great to see an alternative! Will be watching with interest - best of luck!
Edited by RenesisEvo on Monday 31st October 19:50
The thing that would hold me back is the whole roll cage situation. It's not as if they just exist in a demon tweeks catalogue and as for installing one!...
Edit: http://www.sportseats4u.co.uk/citroen-c1-roll-cage...
400-1800 quid and no idea if they're compatible. That already doesn't look budget friendly.
Edit: http://www.sportseats4u.co.uk/citroen-c1-roll-cage...
400-1800 quid and no idea if they're compatible. That already doesn't look budget friendly.
Kringle said:
The thing that would hold me back is the whole roll cage situation. It's not as if they just exist in a demon tweeks catalogue and as for installing one!...
Edit: http://www.sportseats4u.co.uk/citroen-c1-roll-cage...
400-1800 quid and no idea if they're compatible. That already doesn't look budget friendly.
Budget is relative, motorsport is inherently expensive.Edit: http://www.sportseats4u.co.uk/citroen-c1-roll-cage...
400-1800 quid and no idea if they're compatible. That already doesn't look budget friendly.
If you split the driving 4 ways I think you could be all in for 1500 quid each. The car would be worth 3 or 4k when it was done if you wanted to sell it on or you could use it for trackdays and racing in the future. After the initial outlay it looks like a very cost effective way of racing (cheap tyres, OEM brake pads etc)
https://barc.blob.core.windows.net/barcnet/2016-c1...
here's the rule book, you aren't allowed to change from standard steel wheels or even remove the catalytic converter so aside from safety parts it's pretty much as cheap as can be whilst still being safe, regulated racing.
Excellent stuff, good luck with it. I was at Anglesey earlier this year watching the 2cv and C1 racing and it was excellent.
A friend and I who is very much into his 2CVs were discussing how best to participate..... Hmmmm....
The same friend also has an early C1. I'd check the style of clutch arm on the end of the cable. Early ones were a poor design and snapped through fatigue. Worth replacing before going on track! I think the early clutches themselves were also weak and were redesigned for a stronger one. The only other issue he has had along with the clutch was the water pump seizing and taking out the aux belt.
That led to me delivering and helping to fit one on an Easter weekend (he's in Falkirk, I'm in York) and nearly getting points the process. Still, a fun adventure!
Keep us posted!
Cheers,
Tom
A friend and I who is very much into his 2CVs were discussing how best to participate..... Hmmmm....
The same friend also has an early C1. I'd check the style of clutch arm on the end of the cable. Early ones were a poor design and snapped through fatigue. Worth replacing before going on track! I think the early clutches themselves were also weak and were redesigned for a stronger one. The only other issue he has had along with the clutch was the water pump seizing and taking out the aux belt.
That led to me delivering and helping to fit one on an Easter weekend (he's in Falkirk, I'm in York) and nearly getting points the process. Still, a fun adventure!
Keep us posted!
Cheers,
Tom
The ex wife owned two pug 107s. One from 08 and one from 2012. I have to say we always enjoyed these cars. Cheap to buy and run, fun to drive, if you don't need more space then you can't go wrong.
It wasn't the nicest car to drive up and down to London in, but it did return up to 60mpg measured brim to brim when doing so.
I hope you have fun with this one.
It wasn't the nicest car to drive up and down to London in, but it did return up to 60mpg measured brim to brim when doing so.
I hope you have fun with this one.
Looks like fun Mark!
The regs look very tight on modifications which should keep down costs.
Are you getting the cage welded in? I'd recommend it as it will make the shell stiffer than a bolted in one. I've got a small welder if you want to borrow it.
You know where I am if you want any help/advise etc.
Oh, do I recognise the garage extension?!
The regs look very tight on modifications which should keep down costs.
Are you getting the cage welded in? I'd recommend it as it will make the shell stiffer than a bolted in one. I've got a small welder if you want to borrow it.
You know where I am if you want any help/advise etc.
Oh, do I recognise the garage extension?!
skeggysteve said:
Looks like fun Mark!
The regs look very tight on modifications which should keep down costs.
Are you getting the cage welded in? I'd recommend it as it will make the shell stiffer than a bolted in one. I've got a small welder if you want to borrow it.
You know where I am if you want any help/advise etc.
Oh, do I recognise the garage extension?!
Hi Steve, yes it's a very limited set of modifications but it keeps costs low and it's all about the drivers rather than the amount of money they can throw at their car.The regs look very tight on modifications which should keep down costs.
Are you getting the cage welded in? I'd recommend it as it will make the shell stiffer than a bolted in one. I've got a small welder if you want to borrow it.
You know where I am if you want any help/advise etc.
Oh, do I recognise the garage extension?!
Yes, we're welding the cage in, but I won't be going anywhere near, my welding skills are 'primitive' to say the least (farm welding) so I'll just take it to my local bodyshop who'll do it for biscuit money with any luck.
Any time you want to come up and visit you know you'll be welcome (and yes, that's the mini-extension but it makes a huge difference).
So, progress (well, a little bit).
I'd noticed a weep of oil down the front of the block and according to the dealer service manual I found online (thanks to the C1 owners club, yes there's even an owners club for these) I know there's an oil/air separator bolted to the front of the engine, But that was behind the cat, so that came off (with a lot of Plusgas and swearing).
It's the black panel (with oil weeping from beneath it funnily enough)in this photo:
Close up:
So off came the hard water pipe in front and off came the panel, sure enough the sealant was missing on part of the panel (bottom left bolt hole, you can just make it out in the photo).
I cleaned up the panel ready for a new bead of RTV sealant (when I get out and buy some, mines about 5 years old - I used a boatload on the Landy we used to have).
I refitted a couple of bits, just to make me feel better - water pump and hoses complete with shiny jubilee clips instead of the knuckle-shredding clips the manufacturers use these days.
onwards and upwards. Sump drop next, 9 years of accumulated 'stuff' in the bottom of the sump and a hunt for swarf.
I'd noticed a weep of oil down the front of the block and according to the dealer service manual I found online (thanks to the C1 owners club, yes there's even an owners club for these) I know there's an oil/air separator bolted to the front of the engine, But that was behind the cat, so that came off (with a lot of Plusgas and swearing).
It's the black panel (with oil weeping from beneath it funnily enough)in this photo:
Close up:
So off came the hard water pipe in front and off came the panel, sure enough the sealant was missing on part of the panel (bottom left bolt hole, you can just make it out in the photo).
I cleaned up the panel ready for a new bead of RTV sealant (when I get out and buy some, mines about 5 years old - I used a boatload on the Landy we used to have).
I refitted a couple of bits, just to make me feel better - water pump and hoses complete with shiny jubilee clips instead of the knuckle-shredding clips the manufacturers use these days.
onwards and upwards. Sump drop next, 9 years of accumulated 'stuff' in the bottom of the sump and a hunt for swarf.
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