Porsche criticises 'investment' buyers, then edits comments

Porsche criticises 'investment' buyers, then edits comments

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cmoose

Original Poster:

47,540 posts

183 months

Sunday 20th May 2018
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Porsche recently posted a story on its public newsroom that criticised 'investment' buyers of Porsche, characterising them as 'immoral' and 'spoiling' the market. By the time I got to to the page, somebody had thought better about it and edited out the comments, but they were still there in the Google cache of the page.

Original version of opening para:

"The price of classic Porsche models is constantly on the rise. This makes them unaffordable for many. One of the factors behind this development is the questionable interest-rate policy of the European Central Bank (ECB) and the resulting demand for tangible assets. This demand has sent prices skyrocketing and left an increasing number of old Porsche vehicles sequestered in garages, rarely or never seeing the light of day because they were bought purely as investments. Rare and exclusive Porsche vehicles are of course expensive items which increase in price as they age. This is absolutely natural. Yet the speculation in which many dealers are currently indulging is heading towards the downright immoral. As well as spoiling the market, they are causing an explosion in prices even for “normal” Porsche vehicles. Any buyer who wishes to opt out of this hype needs to look for alternatives. Luckily there is no shortage of these classic vehicles of the future – merely used cars today, but destined to join the the stable of sought-after classics and modern classics in just a few years, and already able to delight drivers just as much as a 964, 968 or 993 vehicle of the previous era. The Porsche Boxster 986 is one of these cars. Built between 1996 and 2004, many of us will soon be kicking ourselves for not buying one while they were still available for a reasonable price. The Porsche Klassik team has therefore taken one for the team — and bought a 986. You can read its story below. It might help you to track down similar vehicles for your driving enjoyment."

Edited version:

"There is no shortage of classic vehicles of the future – merely used cars today, but destined to join the the stable of sought-after classics and modern classics in just a few years, and already able to delight drivers just as much as a 964, 968 or 993 vehicle of the previous era. The Porsche Boxster 986 is one of these cars. Built between 1996 and 2004, many of us will soon be kicking ourselves for not buying one while they were still available for a reasonable price. The Porsche Klassik team has therefore taken one for the team — and bought a 986. You can read its story below. It might help you to track down similar vehicles for your driving enjoyment."

I imagine somebody got a bit of a bking. Ultimately, the market madness is brilliant for branding - doesn't sit well with the heritage spiel to imply the classic market is a load of balls. Story is odd in other ways, too, and I believe it appeared first in print in the official Porsche Klassic magazine, but anyway, amusing to see an official Porsche outlet publish comments like this and then rapidly think again. Link to story here:

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/history/porsche-98...

SRT Hellcat

6,305 posts

171 months

Sunday 20th May 2018
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interesting article cmoose. But Porsche would not have their own classic restoration division if there was not any money in it. Restoring a pre 73 long hood 911 costs in excess of £100,000. Not much point in contemplating that exercise if the car is only worth £40,000 which really makes the S models the only truly viable proposition. To build a competitive 65 911 FIA race car is north of £200,000 but at least they get to be used in anger. Imagine taking you early Boxter in for some major surgery and getting a bill for £40,000. What niggles me is that the invoice always seems to be commensurate with the value of the car. The ideology that being hit with a £25,000 bill should be acceptable as you own a classic worth north of £200,000. It's bks

cmoose

Original Poster:

47,540 posts

183 months

Sunday 20th May 2018
quotequote all
Absolutely. Porsche is very much invested in the whole thing on every level. It was just amusing to see those sentiments published on an official site and then removed. You would think it's fairly obvious to anyone writing for an official Porsche publication would that it would make for bad PR.

And I agree about the nonsense resto costs inflating in line with vehicle value inflation. It's a massive turn off.

200Plus Club

7,145 posts

232 months

Sunday 20th May 2018
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Apparently parts costs are rising too at OPC for aircooled such as the 993 as Porsche have obviously jumped onto the rising prices of these and other classics.

Du1point8

21,150 posts

146 months

Monday 21st May 2018
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I remember when I saw a Red 964 for 10k back a good few years ago (8 or so) and it had had a sympathetic restore and was shown the receipts, etc. It was circa 5k for a lot of work.

I suspect now that it would be worth 45k the restore would be closer to 20-25k.

This would be assuming that the work was the same and the extra 8 years did not create any more issues.

Why would this be the case?

Double gauche

296 posts

51 months

Monday 21st May 2018
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I restored a decent 964.
It owes me 70 k at least and I don’t feel I went to town on it.
Well maybe a little !!

Maxym

1,004 posts

190 months

Monday 21st May 2018
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Second version of the article was much better than the incoherent ramble of the first. Not surprised v1 got pulled.

Porsche911R

19,130 posts

219 months

Monday 21st May 2018
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993 calipers have gone up 4x at OPC

ask for a proper paint JOB ie on a car you want to keep not blow over flip it's now £20k

a engine rebuild is £20k

body work is £20k

every one is cashing in on the older cars values.

The money is not in a 986 to do up imo and never will be, a 986 will cost as much to do as a 911S, but like the 964 issue atm

£60k to buy £60k to do up the cars not worth £120k !!! the right money was in the 911S,, that filters down the the E then T as people try and cash in. but who wants a T ? in fact the T name has been st from day one to the current day lol




Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 21st May 09:07

Fastlane

597 posts

171 months

Monday 21st May 2018
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I find this constant criticism of Porsche for their strategy to be rather odd - they are part of VW, which is a business with shareholders, and so have a duty to make money when the opportunity arises. All the other companies associated with them (including restorers) are doing the same - they'd be bonkers not to. People aren't forced to buy old Porsches, nor are they forced to spend money on restoring them.

If you want an affordable Porsche, buy a 996 or 986 (as Porsche have suggested) and stop moaning...

ooid

1,811 posts

54 months

Monday 21st May 2018
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old cars cost, especially the badly built old porkers!, no news there! but the deleted part of the comments were more interesting

"the questionable interest-rate policy of the European Central Bank (ECB) and the resulting demand for tangible assets. This demand has sent prices skyrocketing and left an increasing number of old Porsche vehicles sequestered in garages, rarely or never seeing the light of day because they were bought purely as investments. "

Quite brave public comment on global finance, I wonder if the guy who wrote this still employed there? hehe


Porsche911R

19,130 posts

219 months

Monday 21st May 2018
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Fastlane said:
I find this constant criticism of Porsche for their strategy to be rather odd - they are part of VW, which is a business with shareholders, and so have a duty to make money when the opportunity arises. All the other companies associated with them (including restorers) are doing the same - they'd be bonkers not to. People aren't forced to buy old Porsches, nor are they forced to spend money on restoring them.

If you want an affordable Porsche, buy a 996 or 986 (as Porsche have suggested) and stop moaning...
Porsche are there to make money not cars.

EGTE

943 posts

136 months

Monday 21st May 2018
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Porsche are part of VAG, alright. That's the Diesel-gate company, isn't it? You know, the one that deliberately set out to hide the fact its diesels will pump millions of tons of NOx into the atmosphere (knowing that it's up to 300 times worse than CO2 as a greenhouse gas) illegally.

Therefore any lecture on morals from them are about the most hypocritical thing in the known universe.

Mogul

2,463 posts

177 months

Monday 21st May 2018
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What a curious article! I don't know much about Porsche Klassik or Thomas Fuths but he must be pretty close to Porsche for the publication does appear to come out with the the official blessing of Stuttgart - although I guess Herr Fuths' editorial leash will have been shortened by several centimetres after this lead balloon.

The article mentions that Text first published in the magazine "Porsche Klassik 12" in print form. I have found a couple of copies on eBay [02/17 Ausgabe 12] that the lawyers haven't managed to snap-up yet, or perhaps the fiasco was just with the English translation that was subbed-out to someone with a sense of humour/who is now looking for new work?

Anyway, as a 2002 Lapis blue 2.7 owner, I would have doffed my 2003 retrofitted soft top (and frame) to Herr Fuths as he is clearly a man of impeccable taste but sadly, I let mine go last year after 15 years but I would buy another in a heartbeat.

cmoose

Original Poster:

47,540 posts

183 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
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Yes, I imagine Porsche Klassik is normally relatively low priority within the Porsche PR empire and isn't typically the subject of intense scrutiny nor the source of much by way of controversy.

I would think the editor of the Newsroom website is the one who got the biggest bking!

cmoose

Original Poster:

47,540 posts

183 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
quotequote all
Fastlane said:
I find this constant criticism of Porsche for their strategy to be rather odd - they are part of VW, which is a business with shareholders, and so have a duty to make money when the opportunity arises. All the other companies associated with them (including restorers) are doing the same - they'd be bonkers not to. People aren't forced to buy old Porsches, nor are they forced to spend money on restoring them.

If you want an affordable Porsche, buy a 996 or 986 (as Porsche have suggested) and stop moaning...
Without getting into a debate about corporate ethics, while providing a return to shareholders is obviously the first priority, morally it doesn't follow that anything goes so long as it makes money.

Personally, I think moral objections to the market madness are probably a bit rich. It's all ultimately underpinned by punters paying too much money. As you say, nobody is forcing them to overpay, they do it willingly. But I do find the current state of the market a fairly major turn off.

But I also think Porsche deserves some criticism. The company has frequently paid lip service to their objections to the flipping of late model specials, but at the same time done nothing to stop it. Porsche could easily place contractual limitations on resale, as Ford did recently with its GT.

I likewise think ramping up the prices on official replacement parts, some of which are effectively monopolised, is distasteful and borderline immoral. Unfortunately, old Porsches are not a particularly big market. Governments do step in on occasion when a customer base represents a large proportion of the population and companies are taking advantage of an effective monopoly to charge what are seen as 'immoral' prices. Shareholder returns are not deemed sufficient cause in those cases.

R8Steve

4,150 posts

129 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
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Excellent, i've recently bought a 986S so glad to see Porsche is doing it's best to push up prices on them as well. hehe

cmoose

Original Poster:

47,540 posts

183 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
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And then wish the value hadn't gone up when the parts prices for your 986 suddenly triple!