Shell station @ Gatwick - parking charge
Discussion
It's funny, at the time i had a feeling this would happen so for the first time in my life, i kept a receipt.
i was picking my sister up from the airport and i was 45 minutes early so i decided to go fill the car up, get it washed and hoovered out.
Half the forecourt was coned off due to them jetwashing the ground
I queued for around 15 minutes, got my fuel, went in and paid. Purchased a token for the jet wash then preceded to clean the car (timed foam brush, hot wax all that rubbish) then went into the vacuum bay, hoovered the car out and went on my way.
Euro car park w
kers have sent me a fine stating that i was in the station more than 20 minutes.
well yes, SPENDING MONEY and WAITING FOR THE PUMP and CASHIER !
this 'auto fine and if you don't take 3 hours out of your life proving your innocence we'll just keep ramping the fine up until we take you to court and remove your belongings' bullst is really starting to frustrate me.
What happened to innocent until proven guilty? what ever happened to humans reviewing evidence ? what happened to just basic fairness. fking cocksockets!
i was picking my sister up from the airport and i was 45 minutes early so i decided to go fill the car up, get it washed and hoovered out.
Half the forecourt was coned off due to them jetwashing the ground
I queued for around 15 minutes, got my fuel, went in and paid. Purchased a token for the jet wash then preceded to clean the car (timed foam brush, hot wax all that rubbish) then went into the vacuum bay, hoovered the car out and went on my way.
Euro car park w
kers have sent me a fine stating that i was in the station more than 20 minutes. well yes, SPENDING MONEY and WAITING FOR THE PUMP and CASHIER !
this 'auto fine and if you don't take 3 hours out of your life proving your innocence we'll just keep ramping the fine up until we take you to court and remove your belongings' bulls
t is really starting to frustrate me.What happened to innocent until proven guilty? what ever happened to humans reviewing evidence ? what happened to just basic fairness. f
king cocksockets! PurpleMoonlight said:
Presumably it's ANPR on entry and exit. They don't know what you have been doing on site in between.
Explain to them like you have to us and report back if they don't cancel the charge.
Bit daft having ANPR checking if the garage has a carwash that takes longer than the time allowed on site!Explain to them like you have to us and report back if they don't cancel the charge.
The garage staff are pretty good at getting them cancelled - we have a site a few hundred yards from there and regularly get tickets for rental vehicles being fuelled and washed that exceed the 20 minutes.
Show the staff your receipt, and let them know the PCN number and reg, they can get ECP to cancel it.
Failing that, ECP notice to keeper doesn't comply with POFA 2012, and they hardly ever take anyone to court. They will pass it to Debt Recovery Plus who send lots of letters with red ink if that kind of thing scares you.
If you want to go through the whole POPLA appeal rigmarole, there is an example here of a successful appeal at that site, but you will need to wade through some pseudo-legalese - http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=1157...
It's well intentioned, but but I find that appeals written in plain english are just as effective, and less likely to look like Freeman nonsense.
It's far easier to get it cancelled at the source though.
Show the staff your receipt, and let them know the PCN number and reg, they can get ECP to cancel it.
Failing that, ECP notice to keeper doesn't comply with POFA 2012, and they hardly ever take anyone to court. They will pass it to Debt Recovery Plus who send lots of letters with red ink if that kind of thing scares you.
If you want to go through the whole POPLA appeal rigmarole, there is an example here of a successful appeal at that site, but you will need to wade through some pseudo-legalese - http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=1157...
It's well intentioned, but but I find that appeals written in plain english are just as effective, and less likely to look like Freeman nonsense.
It's far easier to get it cancelled at the source though.
Edited by S11Steve on Friday 29th June 10:11
S11Steve said:
The garage staff are pretty good at getting them cancelled - we have a site a few hundred yards from there and regularly get tickets for rental vehicles being fuelled and washed that exceed the 20 minutes.
Show the staff your receipt, and let them know the PCN number and reg, they can get ECP to cancel it.
Failing that, ECP notice to keeper doesn't comply with POFA 2012, and they hardly ever take anyone to court. They will pass it to Debt Recovery Plus who send lots of letters with red ink if that kind of thing scares you.
Maybe it would be worth not doing anything to see if they indeed pass everything on to DRP. DRP would not have access to DVLA through KADOE contract to get keeper details so it would only leave one option. Euro Car Parks passing on your data to DRP for a nice GDPR breach. Show the staff your receipt, and let them know the PCN number and reg, they can get ECP to cancel it.
Failing that, ECP notice to keeper doesn't comply with POFA 2012, and they hardly ever take anyone to court. They will pass it to Debt Recovery Plus who send lots of letters with red ink if that kind of thing scares you.
Non-compliant NTK so they shouldnt be accessing DVLA in the first place and then passing on the personal information without consent. Could this be the thing that ultimately grinds PPCs to a halt?
pavarotti1980 said:
Maybe it would be worth not doing anything to see if they indeed pass everything on to DRP. DRP would not have access to DVLA through KADOE contract to get keeper details so it would only leave one option. Euro Car Parks passing on your data to DRP for a nice GDPR breach.
Non-compliant NTK so they shouldnt be accessing DVLA in the first place and then passing on the personal information without consent. Could this be the thing that ultimately grinds PPCs to a halt?
Er, no. A lot of people seem to fundamentally misunderstand GDPR and in reality very little has changed over the DPA - you have a few more rights over who uses your data and for what purpose, but that's about it. Certainly in the general case there are no laws against companies passing your details around presuming that both parties are GDPR compliant.Non-compliant NTK so they shouldnt be accessing DVLA in the first place and then passing on the personal information without consent. Could this be the thing that ultimately grinds PPCs to a halt?
deckster said:
Er, no. A lot of people seem to fundamentally misunderstand GDPR and in reality very little has changed over the DPA - you have a few more rights over who uses your data and for what purpose, but that's about it. Certainly in the general case there are no laws against companies passing your details around presuming that both parties are GDPR compliant.
Check the DVLA position on the passing on personal information for confirmation it shouldn't be happening. pavarotti1980 said:
deckster said:
Er, no. A lot of people seem to fundamentally misunderstand GDPR and in reality very little has changed over the DPA - you have a few more rights over who uses your data and for what purpose, but that's about it. Certainly in the general case there are no laws against companies passing your details around presuming that both parties are GDPR compliant.
Check the DVLA position on the passing on personal information for confirmation it shouldn't be happening. DVLA said:
It is the motorist’s choice to park a vehicle on private land and their responsibility to ensure that they do so in accordance with the terms and conditions set out on signage at the entrance and around the car park. The DVLA considers it to be a reasonable cause for businesses and landowners to receive vehicle keeper details where there has been an alleged breach of these terms and conditions. I am sure you will appreciate that if this were not the case, motorists would be able to park with disregard for the law or the rights of the landowner without fear of being held to account for their actions.
which doesn't exactly seem to to support your position.deckster said:
which doesn't exactly seem to to support your position.
Sorry i couldnt link it on my phone while i was outhttps://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/kadoe_syste...
The DVLA has issued a statement to the Trade Associations on the matter of Debt Assignment
You will be aware that DVLA has been considering whether to permit private parking companies passing on DVLA vehicle keeper data to third parties as part of the assignment of unpaid alleged private parking charges. The term used in this context to describe this activity is "debt assignment."
The KADOE contract does not provide for the onward disclosure of vehicle keeper data by parking companies for debt assignment, and any proposals to do so require the parking company to seek written authorisation from DVLA. However, following representations from the sector, DVLA agreed to consider its position further.
I can now advise that the Agency has concluded that it will not be changing its position on this matter. As was the case with previous requests from parking companies, DVLA will not allow vehicle keeper data originating from DVLA records to be provided to third parties as part of a debt assignment arrangement. The Agency will consider disclosure of data obtained from DVLA to third parties as part of a debt assignment arrangement as a breach of contract which could result in suspension.
pavarotti1980 said:
Sorry i couldnt link it on my phone while i was out
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/kadoe_syste...
The DVLA has issued a statement to the Trade Associations on the matter of Debt Assignment
You will be aware that DVLA has been considering whether to permit private parking companies passing on DVLA vehicle keeper data to third parties as part of the assignment of unpaid alleged private parking charges. The term used in this context to describe this activity is "debt assignment."
The KADOE contract does not provide for the onward disclosure of vehicle keeper data by parking companies for debt assignment, and any proposals to do so require the parking company to seek written authorisation from DVLA. However, following representations from the sector, DVLA agreed to consider its position further.
I can now advise that the Agency has concluded that it will not be changing its position on this matter. As was the case with previous requests from parking companies, DVLA will not allow vehicle keeper data originating from DVLA records to be provided to third parties as part of a debt assignment arrangement. The Agency will consider disclosure of data obtained from DVLA to third parties as part of a debt assignment arrangement as a breach of contract which could result in suspension.
Debt assignment is different to utilising a debt collector.https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/kadoe_syste...
The DVLA has issued a statement to the Trade Associations on the matter of Debt Assignment
You will be aware that DVLA has been considering whether to permit private parking companies passing on DVLA vehicle keeper data to third parties as part of the assignment of unpaid alleged private parking charges. The term used in this context to describe this activity is "debt assignment."
The KADOE contract does not provide for the onward disclosure of vehicle keeper data by parking companies for debt assignment, and any proposals to do so require the parking company to seek written authorisation from DVLA. However, following representations from the sector, DVLA agreed to consider its position further.
I can now advise that the Agency has concluded that it will not be changing its position on this matter. As was the case with previous requests from parking companies, DVLA will not allow vehicle keeper data originating from DVLA records to be provided to third parties as part of a debt assignment arrangement. The Agency will consider disclosure of data obtained from DVLA to third parties as part of a debt assignment arrangement as a breach of contract which could result in suspension.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Debt assignment is different to utilising a debt collector.
they assign the debt to the collector (they sell it). If they dont assign it then the debt collector cant do anything at all. not even send a letterhave a look at MIL collections
Edited by pavarotti1980 on Friday 29th June 14:36
pavarotti1980 said:
Sorry i couldnt link it on my phone while i was out
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/kadoe_syste...
The DVLA has issued a statement to the Trade Associations on the matter of Debt Assignment
You will be aware that DVLA has been considering whether to permit private parking companies passing on DVLA vehicle keeper data to third parties as part of the assignment of unpaid alleged private parking charges. The term used in this context to describe this activity is "debt assignment."
The KADOE contract does not provide for the onward disclosure of vehicle keeper data by parking companies for debt assignment, and any proposals to do so require the parking company to seek written authorisation from DVLA. However, following representations from the sector, DVLA agreed to consider its position further.
I can now advise that the Agency has concluded that it will not be changing its position on this matter. As was the case with previous requests from parking companies, DVLA will not allow vehicle keeper data originating from DVLA records to be provided to third parties as part of a debt assignment arrangement. The Agency will consider disclosure of data obtained from DVLA to third parties as part of a debt assignment arrangement as a breach of contract which could result in suspension.
Thank you, that supercedes my find which was a similar FOI request but dating back to 2012. Good to see them taking this stance, anything which makes life more difficult for the PPCs is a positive in my book!https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/kadoe_syste...
The DVLA has issued a statement to the Trade Associations on the matter of Debt Assignment
You will be aware that DVLA has been considering whether to permit private parking companies passing on DVLA vehicle keeper data to third parties as part of the assignment of unpaid alleged private parking charges. The term used in this context to describe this activity is "debt assignment."
The KADOE contract does not provide for the onward disclosure of vehicle keeper data by parking companies for debt assignment, and any proposals to do so require the parking company to seek written authorisation from DVLA. However, following representations from the sector, DVLA agreed to consider its position further.
I can now advise that the Agency has concluded that it will not be changing its position on this matter. As was the case with previous requests from parking companies, DVLA will not allow vehicle keeper data originating from DVLA records to be provided to third parties as part of a debt assignment arrangement. The Agency will consider disclosure of data obtained from DVLA to third parties as part of a debt assignment arrangement as a breach of contract which could result in suspension.
However as this appears to be an internal policy decision dating back to 2016 at least, I maintain that it is nothing to do with GDPR
deckster said:
Thank you, that supercedes my find which was a similar FOI request but dating back to 2012. Good to see them taking this stance, anything which makes life more difficult for the PPCs is a positive in my book!
However as this appears to be an internal policy decision dating back to 2016 at least, I maintain that it is nothing to do with GDPR
No it was at that time DPA 1998 which has been superceded by GDPR and DPA 2018. DPA 2018 merely allows the UK to implement local legislation which is not covered by GDPRHowever as this appears to be an internal policy decision dating back to 2016 at least, I maintain that it is nothing to do with GDPR
What else does the DPA 2018 cover not included in GDPR?
1)The DPA 2018 has a part dealing with processing that does not fall within EU law, for example, where it is related to immigration. It applies GDPR standards but it has been amended to adjust those that would not work in the national context.
2)It also has a part that transposes the EU Data Protection Directive 2016/680 (Law Enforcement Directive) into domestic UK law. The Directive complements the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and Part 3 of the DPA 2018sets out the requirements for the processing of personal data for criminal ‘law enforcement purposes’. The ICO has produced a detailed Guide to Law Enforcement Processing in addition to a helpful 12 step guide for quick reference.
3)National security is also outside the scope of EU law. The Government has decided that it is important the intelligence services are required to comply with internationally recognised data protection standards, so there are provisions based on Council of Europe Data Protection Convention 108 that apply to them.
4)There are also separate parts to cover the ICO and our duties, functions and powers plus the enforcement provisions. The Data Protection Act 1998 is being repealed so it makes the changes necessary to deal with the interaction between FOIA/EIR and the DPA.
Edited by pavarotti1980 on Friday 29th June 14:40
PurpleMoonlight said:
Who says they can't pass details to a debt collector to act on their behalf?
Because if you read the letters from the likes of DRP they say they have been assigned the debt! Therefore by some miracle that means it is debt assignment from PPC to third party. Not withstanding that in this example Euro Car Parks are not POFA compliant with their NTK so in essence they have no reason to be obtaining keeper details in the first place. It all comes back to the incompetence of the PPCs
S11Steve said:
...
It's well intentioned, but I find that appeals written in plain english are just as effective, and less likely to look like Freeman nonsense.
It's far easier to get it cancelled at the source though.
This, all day long. It's well intentioned, but I find that appeals written in plain english are just as effective, and less likely to look like Freeman nonsense.
It's far easier to get it cancelled at the source though.
Just write a calm and sensible letter or two. Do not get shouty. Do not cite all the made up Hogwarts unicorn pixie dust mumbo jumbo that is posted on those parking-weirdo websites. Just write words.
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