A320 engine nacelle failure
Discussion
More like 60 incidents in the history of the A320 family. Airbus never really taken it seriously, always blaming maintenance error. Unfortunately the design and human factors not really compatible. Pilots are supposed to check on walkround but that means getting down on hands & knees in a clean uniform and looking for something that isn't all that visually obvious on the ground.
Speed 3 said:
More like 60 incidents in the history of the A320 family. Airbus never really taken it seriously, always blaming maintenance error. Unfortunately the design and human factors not really compatible. Pilots are supposed to check on walkround but that means getting down on hands & knees in a clean uniform and looking for something that isn't all that visually obvious on the ground.
Didn't realize it was that many... There was a good report showing them unlatched and you can see how easily it is to miss if they are closed but unlatched. Wait to see the report come out on this one 
"Frontier Airlines flight #F9260 from Vegas to Tampa suffered serious engine cowling damage yesterday. The Airbus A320 (N227FR) safely returned to Las Vegas shortly after takeoff.
All passengers got a free breakfast voucher, a full refund and a $500 voucher for a future Frontier flight. They were also rebooked on other airlines, a spokesperson said."
All passengers got a free breakfast voucher, a full refund and a $500 voucher for a future Frontier flight. They were also rebooked on other airlines, a spokesperson said."
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: Apologies for what may be a dumb question but given even my car beeps like roadrunner if I try and drive off with a door or bonnet or boot open, does a modern aircraft really not have sensors on latches like this?
No aircraft I have worked on no. Only the pressure cell doors. I. E the bits required to be shut for pressurisation. Ie the ones open and closed all the time to get cargo/ passengers on/off. I used to work on hercs and know of someone who went out and opened the engine cowlings to do some work. Quick fasten down before lunch (night shift). Went back to finish off. The herd wasn’t there.
Turned out the rects control board had the wrong aircraft tail number against the wrong bay. Cpl went out and worked on wrong aircraft at 0300am.
We had to get ops to radio the aircraft back to land. Thankfully the Cpl did enough fasteners up for it to stay attached although the cowling was bent.
It’s easy to do when your very tired. (End of 5 days of 12 hour shifts 2 days/3 nights when under pressure.)
Like it’s always said though. It’s the Swiss cheese effect. It’s amazing how often those holes fate to join up.
What's the SOP for events like this? Presumably the crew only became aware of excessive noise/buffeting and the engine remained running (assuming the cowls didn't flap around and beat the crap outta the engine inside?
I guess the lift/drag on that side could have been reduced by the turbulence from the cowls as they flap around in the airstream leading to an asymmetrical handling aircraft?
I guess the lift/drag on that side could have been reduced by the turbulence from the cowls as they flap around in the airstream leading to an asymmetrical handling aircraft?
There is history on the latches not being fastened. I believe that I read that they are in an awkward position to view. A BA A320 family plane had a similar issue, but it damaged the engine - and they also had issues with the other engine, which was uncomfortable.
Seems it needs the mistake understanding and not the people making it being fired - especially as at least 3 people did not spot it (engineer, pilot on walk around, and gate supervisor )
Seems it needs the mistake understanding and not the people making it being fired - especially as at least 3 people did not spot it (engineer, pilot on walk around, and gate supervisor )
flatsix3.6 said:
Should that have been picked up on the pilot walk round ?.
I guess so but that means getting right down low. I’m not a pilot but bet they don’t get checked as often as they should. There is always something that can be missed easily. Complacency, tiredness, poor light etc are all factors. surveyor said:
There is history on the latches not being fastened. I believe that I read that they are in an awkward position to view. A BA A320 family plane had a similar issue, but it damaged the engine - and they also had issues with the other engine, which was uncomfortable.
Seems it needs the mistake understanding and not the people making it being fired - especially as at least 3 people did not spot it (engineer, pilot on walk around, and gate supervisor )
I used to work on taller aircraft and the latches were quite visible when left undone, but these smaller aircraft have the engines a lot lower to the ground and the latches are hard to see.Seems it needs the mistake understanding and not the people making it being fired - especially as at least 3 people did not spot it (engineer, pilot on walk around, and gate supervisor )
It's rare in the aircraft industry to have such an event happen so often, and I'm surprised it's still happening. We were told on one of our human factors training sessions that more safeguards had been put in place to stop this happening again, but it's obviously not working. Perhaps it is time to modify hundreds of aircraft to have cowling open warning lights.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Apologies for what may be a dumb question but given even my car beeps like roadrunner if I try and drive off with a door or bonnet or boot open, does a modern aircraft really not have sensors on latches like this?
The later NEO version of this does have sensors for the fan cowl doors. 3 sensors, any 2 show open and you get a warning.There's also a flag that pops out higher up the cowling to show it isn't latched properly.
As with all things, this reduces but doesn't entirely eliminate the possibility of it happening still. Humans are amazing after all.
Edited by Smiljan on Saturday 1st December 18:23
On Tornado, it was possible to close panels on the front fuselage with shoot-bolts with the whole shebang looking properly closed and secure. As we found out on ADV at Dhahran, just the once, they make a terrible mess of all the skin down the air intake before they hit the engine. Then all the bits get coughed forwards again, and then backwards etc etc.
Still, that won’t matter at all from next March/April.
Still, that won’t matter at all from next March/April.
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