RE: Projekt Grenadier to get BMW engines

RE: Projekt Grenadier to get BMW engines

Monday 18th March

Projekt Grenadier to get BMW engines

No longer just a Defender clone, INEOS's plan for an all-new old-school off-roader is finally taking shape



When plans for the curiously named Projekt Grenadier first came out it's fair to say that they seemed more eccentric than grounded in reality. In a nutshell, billionaire Jim Ratcliffe, founder of the vast INEOS chemical empire, was so upset by the axing of the Land Rover Defender that he decided to build his own replacement. Originally this was pitched as being a near-clone - something which displeased Land Rover with its own new Defender in the works - the plan then shifting to the idea of creating a new rugged off-roader in its own right.

But now things are getting increasingly serious. Last year we were told that MBTech, an engineering consultancy spun from Mercedes Benz in 1995, was working on productionizing a vehicle. Now the Projekt Grenadier have announced that the finished product will use BMW engines, and has also released a single teaser image of what appears to be a GRENADIER embossed bonnet pressing.


PH also got to chat with Grenadier's commercial director Mark Tennant, who added some extra details to the modest tally that have been officially released. The most significant of which being that INEOS has dedicated no less than £600m to the creation of this new model - pretty much exactly what a big carmaker would spend on a fresh offering. So properly serious, then.

Beyond confirming the fact it plans to use both petrol and diesel BMW engines, Grenadier hasn't given any more details, although the Tennant's assertion that the finished vehicle should be seen as a proper utility makes it likely we're talking about four-cylinder power rather than full-fat V8s. The finished Grenadier will be sold around the world, Tennant confirming it will definitely be homologated for both Europe and the U.S.

On this side of the Atlantic the ambition is to provide an alternative to the separate chassis pickups that have taken over from old-school off-roaders and with similar pricing; in the U.S. Tennant admits that the buying profile is likely to be more affluent and "lifestyle". But in other parts of the world the plan is that a bare bones version will offer rugged transport suited to low infrastructure environments; a decent percentage of production might end up in UN white.

 

While the classic Land Rover remains on the list of influences, we've also been told to think in terms of the Jeep Wrangler, early Land Cruiser and Mercedes G-Wagen. There's no confirmation on there being more than one version, but punchy volumes predictions - Tennant says the plan is to make up to 25,000 a year - suggest there will be a variety of body styles and probably also wheelbases. For context, the Defender sold substantially less than that for the last decade of its existence, albeit without any American sales.

The single teaser shot isn't giving much away, beyond the fact that Grenadier looks to have a raised bonnet - which could also mean Defender style flat front wings - and also that the paint finish of what is certain to be an early prototype seems a little, let's say, rugged. Given the drip feed of news there will be plenty more details to come before we eventually see the finished vehicle.

Author
Discussion

loskie

Original Poster:

1,227 posts

60 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
the company owns oil refineries? So must build a V8 surely!
I am hugely interested to see how this pans out, not another Zenos I hope.

Good luck Projekt Grenadier.

Nerdherder

556 posts

37 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
Really hope this pans out beautifully!
Making a bare bones version available globally will give them huge market. I'd make it a separate model to the luxo/lifestyle version.

wab172uk

1,254 posts

167 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
loskie said:
the company owns oil refineries? So must build a V8 surely!
I am hugely interested to see how this pans out, not another Zenos I hope.

Good luck Projekt Grenadier.
A project that's not going to run out of cash for once.

HerniaHotline

4 posts

3 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
Surely a complicated and expensive (multi-turbo?) BMW setup is going to be impractical in the "low infrastructure" environments they would like to market to?

JxJ Jr.

56 posts

10 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
HerniaHotline said:
Surely a complicated and expensive (multi-turbo?) BMW setup is going to be impractical in the "low infrastructure" environments they would like to market to?
Exactly, how widespread are BMW parts, diagnostic equipment and expertise amongst the towns in the Outback, or across Africa, or indeed the Scottish Highlands?

To me it smacks of what they could get rather than what they might have wanted. Far more obvious choices are Ford, Mercedes, Fiat, Toyota, etc. but they have vehicles (off road and/or commercial vehicles) that this would compete with, so they wouldn't be keen to supply. BMW doesn't so nothing to lose there plus this is amongst the most credible vehicle start ups so they'll be able to pay their bills.
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Zumbruk

4,979 posts

200 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
Hopefully the Brexitard knobhead will fail spectacularly and expensively.

camel_landy

2,544 posts

123 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
Zumbruk said:
Hopefully the Brexitard knobhead will fail spectacularly and expensively.
Thank you for your valued contribution... rolleyes

M

W12AAM

19 posts

21 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
As much as I admire this chap & when this "New Defender" was announced about 3-4 years ago, I did think it would be good to have a true British replacement, as LR were not sure when the replacement would be & where it would be built.

Since then; A few years have slipped by & the new LR replacement will be ready very soon (eclipsing this model). I also see there is a German Project Manage for Project Grenadier; It may be built in Portugal (rather than Blighty - Wales?) and now its being fitted with German engines.

You might as well wait for the Slovakian built LR replacement at this rate...and this "Project" is certainly not what I thought it would be :-A truly British, Designed and built replacement for LR's Defender.

smn159

5,473 posts

157 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
wab172uk said:
loskie said:
the company owns oil refineries? So must build a V8 surely!
I am hugely interested to see how this pans out, not another Zenos I hope.

Good luck Projekt Grenadier.
A project that's not going to run out of cash for once.
Well here's £4bn for a start

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/17/b...


fido

13,867 posts

195 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
Well they have a good selection of unreliable engines to choose from.

Kawasicki

5,946 posts

175 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
fido said:
Well they have a good selection of unreliable engines to choose from.
Yeah, the engine in my brothers 520d developed timing chain issues....at 400,000km.

Rod200SX

6,926 posts

116 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
I'm waiting to get a phone call back from my mechanic to hear if my N54 has lunched itself... I don't have much trust in BMW engines hehe

wab172uk

1,254 posts

167 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
smn159 said:
wab172uk said:
loskie said:
the company owns oil refineries? So must build a V8 surely!
I am hugely interested to see how this pans out, not another Zenos I hope.

Good luck Projekt Grenadier.
A project that's not going to run out of cash for once.
Well here's £4bn for a start

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/17/b...
And you wouldn't do the same? Think we all accept we all have to pay Tax (which he will as well) but if your accountant said if you do `X` you can save `Y` amount of annual tax, I think we would all take their advice.

Edited by wab172uk on Monday 18th March 15:13

IknowJoseph

519 posts

80 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
W12AAM said:
As much as I admire this chap & when this "New Defender" was announced about 3-4 years ago, I did think it would be good to have a true British replacement, as LR were not sure when the replacement would be & where it would be built.

Since then; A few years have slipped by & the new LR replacement will be ready very soon (eclipsing this model). I also see there is a German Project Manage for Project Grenadier; It may be built in Portugal (rather than Blighty - Wales?) and now its being fitted with German engines.

You might as well wait for the Slovakian built LR replacement at this rate...and this "Project" is certainly not what I thought it would be :-A truly British, Designed and built replacement for LR's Defender.
A German Project Manager and German Engines?! Outrageous! Portugal and Slovakia? Third world sh!t holes more like!

But seriously, your comment reads like the Basil Fawlty Motoring News.

The truth is, globalisation has happened, and getting upset about "English" this and that just doesn't make any sense. Even the most ardent Brexit pusher is going to employ Europeans, buy European products and manufacture in Europe if it's the best for their business. The mistake many people are making at the moment is to believe that globalisation can either be undone, or that industry leaders want it undone.



loveice

442 posts

187 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
All the mentioning of Land Cruiser, reliability, utility ect, why not just get a brand new Australia imported LC76? It'll definitely be cheaper and with tons of aftermarket support. If a Toyota isn't good enough for some people, then they can always get an again brand new Australia imported G-Class Professional which btw would probably be cheaper than some small scale product. The "huge' market they are talking about has already been filled. Unless you can do it better than Toyota, MB, Jeep, Nissan and Suzuki, I can't see a point here.

sgtBerbatov

1,141 posts

21 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
loveice said:
All the mentioning of Land Cruiser, reliability, utility ect, why not just get a brand new Australia imported LC76? It'll definitely be cheaper and with tons of aftermarket support. If a Toyota isn't good enough for some people, then they can always get an again brand new Australia imported G-Class Professional which btw would probably be cheaper than some small scale product. The "huge' market they are talking about has already been filled. Unless you can do it better than Toyota, MB, Jeep, Nissan and Suzuki, I can't see a point here.
Thing is, those who don't think Toyota is good enough for them are always the ones that end up getting rescued by one.

Gilhooligan

1,495 posts

84 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
Rod200SX said:
I'm waiting to get a phone call back from my mechanic to hear if my N54 has lunched itself... I don't have much trust in BMW engines hehe
Swithered about buying a 1 series with that engine. Didn’t bother in the end due to the ridiculous amount of expensive things that can go wrong with it laugh Lovely engine when everything is working though.

JustinF

6,134 posts

143 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
Team cars for Team Ineos nee.Sky

smn159

5,473 posts

157 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
wab172uk said:
And you wouldn't do the same?
Would I use my position to lobby for all sorts of things that affect people living in this country before fking off to live in an overseas tax haven to save a bit of cash for myself?

No, I don't believe that I would.

R8Steve

3,838 posts

115 months

Monday 18th March
quotequote all
smn159 said:
wab172uk said:
loskie said:
the company owns oil refineries? So must build a V8 surely!
I am hugely interested to see how this pans out, not another Zenos I hope.

Good luck Projekt Grenadier.
A project that's not going to run out of cash for once.
Well here's £4bn for a start

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/17/b...
"Ratcliffe was ranked the UK’s richest person in May after he contacted the editor of the Sunday Times rich list to complain that his wealth had been drastically underestimated."

That's pretty cringeworthy reading.