Mobile phone law revisions
Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54578607
Looks like they're getting stricter on mobile phone use - Good! - It expands beyond the exising bar to "interactive communications functions" to include things like people filming at the wheel.
There's still exemptions for use of hands free (which makes sense) - As well as use in a cradle, which whilst I can appreciate their utility, usually leads to "problems" imo...
Looks like they're getting stricter on mobile phone use - Good! - It expands beyond the exising bar to "interactive communications functions" to include things like people filming at the wheel.
There's still exemptions for use of hands free (which makes sense) - As well as use in a cradle, which whilst I can appreciate their utility, usually leads to "problems" imo...
Dr Jekyll said:
If existing laws don't cover it why not have a specific law about filming or photographing at the wheel?
Am I OK to use a camcorder at the wheel? If so, what's the difference? If not, why do we need a new law?
Because then there would have to be specific laws for other things like selecting music etc. Am I OK to use a camcorder at the wheel? If so, what's the difference? If not, why do we need a new law?
I assume this means you would still be allowed to use the navigation function (ie Google Maps) on your handset provided you can set it with the engine off or before you get in your vehicle. My employer uses a dispatch system with integrated Google Maps to direct us to the customer's address.
There would have to be significant infrastructure changes if they plan gantries and covert cameras to catch people in the act. Though one wonders if it will just be more reliance on cameras or more traffic police to enforce this?
6 points will see a lot off the road - especially new drivers within their first 2 years
There would have to be significant infrastructure changes if they plan gantries and covert cameras to catch people in the act. Though one wonders if it will just be more reliance on cameras or more traffic police to enforce this?
6 points will see a lot off the road - especially new drivers within their first 2 years
Dr Jekyll said:
If existing laws don't cover it why not have a specific law about filming or photographing at the wheel?
Am I OK to use a camcorder at the wheel? If so, what's the difference? If not, why do we need a new law?
It’s not a new Law it’s revising the existing one which defines the offence as being the use of “an interactive communication function”.Am I OK to use a camcorder at the wheel? If so, what's the difference? If not, why do we need a new law?
Basically the Law hasn’t kept pace with the times. The change seeks to cover using the phone at all hand held, e.g. taking photos, playing games, etc that would previously (and currently) have to be charged with driving without due care.
Frankly I’m surprised it’s taken this long to address this loophole.
CourtAgain said:
I assume this means you would still be allowed to use the navigation function (ie Google Maps) on your handset provided you can set it with the engine off or before you get in your vehicle. My employer uses a dispatch system with integrated Google Maps to direct us to the customer's address.
There would have to be significant infrastructure changes if they plan gantries and covert cameras to catch people in the act. Though one wonders if it will just be more reliance on cameras or more traffic police to enforce this?
6 points will see a lot off the road - especially new drivers within their first 2 years
So long as you’re not holding it you can still do that, with the caveat being if you are spotted and appear sufficiently distracted then you could get a pull and charged with DWDCA.There would have to be significant infrastructure changes if they plan gantries and covert cameras to catch people in the act. Though one wonders if it will just be more reliance on cameras or more traffic police to enforce this?
6 points will see a lot off the road - especially new drivers within their first 2 years
Durzel said:
It’s not a new Law it’s revising the existing one which defines the offence as being the use of “an interactive communication function”.
Basically the Law hasn’t kept pace with the times. The change seeks to cover using the phone at all hand held, e.g. taking photos, playing games, etc that would previously (and currently) have to be charged with driving without due care.
Frankly I’m surprised it’s taken this long to address this loophole.
It isn't a loophole. Just that people who should have been charged with DWDCA were charged with phoning at the wheel when they were filming. If drive along using my super 8 movie camera in one hand while using a walkie talkie with the other and a copper decides to charge me under phone use instead of DWDCA. My defence that I can't be convicted of telephoning because I wasn't telephoning is not exploiting a loophole.Basically the Law hasn’t kept pace with the times. The change seeks to cover using the phone at all hand held, e.g. taking photos, playing games, etc that would previously (and currently) have to be charged with driving without due care.
Frankly I’m surprised it’s taken this long to address this loophole.
If you were charged under the phone law when you were using a super8 camera and walkie talkie then obviously that would be incorrect and you shouldn’t be prosecuted.
I’m not sure what that has to do with using a phone for the multitude of things that aren’t currently covered (e.g. not interactive communication functions), and it being a loophole or not.
In your hypothetical situation that would simply be the wrong offence being prosecuted entirely, since you weren’t using a phone at all.
I’m not sure what that has to do with using a phone for the multitude of things that aren’t currently covered (e.g. not interactive communication functions), and it being a loophole or not.
In your hypothetical situation that would simply be the wrong offence being prosecuted entirely, since you weren’t using a phone at all.
Durzel said:
If you were charged under the phone law when you were using a super8 camera and walkie talkie then obviously that would be incorrect and you shouldn’t be prosecuted.
I’m not sure what that has to do with using a phone for the multitude of things that aren’t currently covered (e.g. not interactive communication functions), and it being a loophole or not.
In your hypothetical situation that would simply be the wrong offence being prosecuted entirely, since you weren’t using a phone at all.
Exactly the same as charging someone under the interactive communications functions when they are filming not phoning.I’m not sure what that has to do with using a phone for the multitude of things that aren’t currently covered (e.g. not interactive communication functions), and it being a loophole or not.
In your hypothetical situation that would simply be the wrong offence being prosecuted entirely, since you weren’t using a phone at all.
Dr Jekyll said:
Exactly the same as charging someone under the interactive communications functions when they are filming not phoning.
So what’s the problem with me calling it a loophole?Obviously any right minded person would consider that using your phone to film things as you’re driving. or playing games, should be treated the same as if you are “performing an interactive communications function“. That it doesn’t, and the Law as it exists now does not cover it, and allows people to get off if they are doing these things (or if they simply say they were), is not what most people would consider to be “right”.
Legally and pedantically speaking - yes - the Law doesn’t explicitly say you can’t play Minecraft whilst driving, so prosecuting someone for the mobile phone law instead of DWDCA would be a mistake, and a get out for someone who is bang to rights doing something they know they shouldn’t be doing whilst driving, and society at large would abhor.
I would say therefore that use of the word “loophole” is subjectively correct. If you believe that people shouldn’t be t
tting about with their phones whilst driving, in any way, then you’d probably agree with the use of the word. If you’re inclined to use them, support the use of them whilst driving, or whatever, on the basis that the Law doesn’t explicitly tell you everything you shouldn’t be doing (but is really common sense) then maybe you think it’s wrong.Even with the risk of 6 points and a £200 fine the amount of drivers I still see happily chatting away with the phone to their ear is multiple times a day,these are drivers of all ages not just young ones!
Had a car follow me for 5/6 miles on my commute home yesterday with the man driving happily chatting on his phone (held to his ear),out of the 3 roundabouts and 2 junctions during that 5/6 miles not once did he indicate.
Had a car follow me for 5/6 miles on my commute home yesterday with the man driving happily chatting on his phone (held to his ear),out of the 3 roundabouts and 2 junctions during that 5/6 miles not once did he indicate.
Saleen836 said:
Even with the risk of 6 points and a £200 fine the amount of drivers I still see happily chatting away with the phone to their ear is multiple times a day,these are drivers of all ages not just young ones!
Had a car follow me for 5/6 miles on my commute home yesterday with the man driving happily chatting on his phone (held to his ear),out of the 3 roundabouts and 2 junctions during that 5/6 miles not once did he indicate.
It’s a numbers game like everything else. People know there are precious few actual Police on the road, and no meaningful automated enforcement, so they take the risk.Had a car follow me for 5/6 miles on my commute home yesterday with the man driving happily chatting on his phone (held to his ear),out of the 3 roundabouts and 2 junctions during that 5/6 miles not once did he indicate.
Saleen836 said:
Even with the risk of 6 points and a £200 fine the amount of drivers I still see happily chatting away with the phone to their ear is multiple times a day,these are drivers of all ages not just young ones!
Had a car follow me for 5/6 miles on my commute home yesterday with the man driving happily chatting on his phone (held to his ear),out of the 3 roundabouts and 2 junctions during that 5/6 miles not once did he indicate.
They do not feel there is any real police presence on the roads = low risk of being caught. Had a car follow me for 5/6 miles on my commute home yesterday with the man driving happily chatting on his phone (held to his ear),out of the 3 roundabouts and 2 junctions during that 5/6 miles not once did he indicate.
EDIT: Having said that, this law will make wannabe coppers who send dashcam footage or phone videos of people breaking the law have a field day.
Dr Jekyll said:
If existing laws don't cover it why not have a specific law about filming or photographing at the wheel?
Am I OK to use a camcorder at the wheel? If so, what's the difference? If not, why do we need a new law?
If it were that simple to differentiate the uses and apply an alternative law, then that’s what would be occurring now. Am I OK to use a camcorder at the wheel? If so, what's the difference? If not, why do we need a new law?
This is not an argument against legislation to discourage mobile phone use whilst driving but I find it ironic that changing the temperature of the cabin in my wife’s A6 using the touch screen just above the gear selector is potentially more distracting than reading a text on my phone.
DeWar said:
This is not an argument against legislation to discourage mobile phone use whilst driving but I find it ironic that changing the temperature of the cabin in my wife’s A6 using the touch screen just above the gear selector is potentially more distracting than reading a text on my phone.
Try hitting a 3mm square search icon in the built-in Spotify app whilst driving your Volvo. It's like trying to find a clitoris whilst wearing boxing gloves. The level of tech and gadgets in cars is part of the problem. If you think of why you are in the car......
Ostensibly to get from A to B. The basic controls of steering, accelerator, brakes, mirrors, lights is really all you need.
Next, add on the extras......sound system, on board computer, climate control, satnav, any others you can think of.
How ESSENTIAL is it to access, adjust, playwith any of these whilst in traffic?
How easy are they to use to avoid distraction?
The extras are there so people will use them, sometimes when they shouldn’t. How about disabling adjustments when the engine is on? OK a passenger could do the adjustments but a seat sensor similar to seatbelt warning could enable them.
Business use of a phone/computer/dedicated unit should be kept to a minimum. Why have a long, protracted high content “meeting” whilst driving? If it’s that important pull over to give full attention.
Ostensibly to get from A to B. The basic controls of steering, accelerator, brakes, mirrors, lights is really all you need.
Next, add on the extras......sound system, on board computer, climate control, satnav, any others you can think of.
How ESSENTIAL is it to access, adjust, playwith any of these whilst in traffic?
How easy are they to use to avoid distraction?
The extras are there so people will use them, sometimes when they shouldn’t. How about disabling adjustments when the engine is on? OK a passenger could do the adjustments but a seat sensor similar to seatbelt warning could enable them.
Business use of a phone/computer/dedicated unit should be kept to a minimum. Why have a long, protracted high content “meeting” whilst driving? If it’s that important pull over to give full attention.
DeWar said:
This is not an argument against legislation to discourage mobile phone use whilst driving but I find it ironic that changing the temperature of the cabin in my wife’s A6 using the touch screen just above the gear selector is potentially more distracting than reading a text on my phone.
I would tend to agree, although that is still covered by DWDCA if your driving is obviously impaired.I sense the idea being strengthening this Law is that mobile phones have got nothing to do with the basic function of driving, but everyone carries them and more and more are glued to them, so it necessitates a specific Law that can be prosecuted quickly with fixed penalties that impose a significant burden on those caught.
There have been studies that show that even hands free has an effect on reaction speed and attentiveness, as I’m sure playing with ubiquitous touchscreens in cars do too, but it’s pretty hard to stop that and would cause issues with normal business functions (e.g. taxi drivers) if they tried.
I have Waze on my phone
Held in a cradle at the bottom RH corner of the Windscreen ( in effect out out the swept area ( They should have added ANY device fixed to the windscree that is in the swept area is a instant ban and car is crushed on the spot)
Back to the Waze it gives options the confirm or update info eg Car stopped on carriageway and asks still there? or Bot there?
All you need to do is just tap the answer that applies
Is this action now also banned under this new amendment?
Held in a cradle at the bottom RH corner of the Windscreen ( in effect out out the swept area ( They should have added ANY device fixed to the windscree that is in the swept area is a instant ban and car is crushed on the spot)
Back to the Waze it gives options the confirm or update info eg Car stopped on carriageway and asks still there? or Bot there?
All you need to do is just tap the answer that applies
Is this action now also banned under this new amendment?
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