Momentum limit rather than speed limit
Discussion
Fed up reading yet another article on PH with an EV or ICE looking like a tank, and capable of 0-60 in 3 seconds, or top speed of two hundred mph to be used by the masses as a shopping car. Considering where the world is heading the car manufacturers seem to be headed in completely the wrong direction. These big heavy SUV vehicles with massive power are daft for the weekly shop and completely pedestrian unfriendly.
So what about a momentum limit on roads? Its kinda there already. We don't let HGVs do ninety down the motorway because we can all se the problems with that. Why not limit the car depending on its ability to stop just like we do with HGVs
So motorcycles can do ninety down motorways and a similarly raised speed limit elsewhere. Cars have to be limited to their stopping ability. So if you have a light sports car capable of stopping on a sixpence its allowed to do eighty, but if you have a giant suv with a giant engine its limited to its ability to stop with twice the weight of the sportscar and is only allowed to do sixty on the motorway.
The speed limits for other roads would be similarly adjusted and cars would have a disc in the window in a simple traffic light system showing their capability. Nothing needed for a motorcycle. Green for lightweight sportscar, amber for SUV etc. motorcycle can do 10mph above any speed limit, green can do the speed limit and amber 10mph less and red 20mph less, to balance the risk of each type of transport out.
In a flash the world is greener, safer for pedestrians, and no more daft articles about SUVs with 700hp win win ?
So what about a momentum limit on roads? Its kinda there already. We don't let HGVs do ninety down the motorway because we can all se the problems with that. Why not limit the car depending on its ability to stop just like we do with HGVs
So motorcycles can do ninety down motorways and a similarly raised speed limit elsewhere. Cars have to be limited to their stopping ability. So if you have a light sports car capable of stopping on a sixpence its allowed to do eighty, but if you have a giant suv with a giant engine its limited to its ability to stop with twice the weight of the sportscar and is only allowed to do sixty on the motorway.
The speed limits for other roads would be similarly adjusted and cars would have a disc in the window in a simple traffic light system showing their capability. Nothing needed for a motorcycle. Green for lightweight sportscar, amber for SUV etc. motorcycle can do 10mph above any speed limit, green can do the speed limit and amber 10mph less and red 20mph less, to balance the risk of each type of transport out.
In a flash the world is greener, safer for pedestrians, and no more daft articles about SUVs with 700hp win win ?
julian64 said:
Fed up reading yet another article on PH with an EV or ICE looking like a tank, and capable of 0-60 in 3 seconds, or top speed of two hundred mph to be used by the masses as a shopping car. Considering where the world is heading the car manufacturers seem to be headed in completely the wrong direction. These big heavy SUV vehicles with massive power are daft for the weekly shop and completely pedestrian unfriendly.
So what about a momentum limit on roads? Its kinda there already. We don't let HGVs do ninety down the motorway because we can all se the problems with that. Why not limit the car depending on its ability to stop just like we do with HGVs
So motorcycles can do ninety down motorways and a similarly raised speed limit elsewhere. Cars have to be limited to their stopping ability. So if you have a light sports car capable of stopping on a sixpence its allowed to do eighty, but if you have a giant suv with a giant engine its limited to its ability to stop with twice the weight of the sportscar and is only allowed to do sixty on the motorway.
The speed limits for other roads would be similarly adjusted and cars would have a disc in the window in a simple traffic light system showing their capability. Nothing needed for a motorcycle. Green for lightweight sportscar, amber for SUV etc. motorcycle can do 10mph above any speed limit, green can do the speed limit and amber 10mph less and red 20mph less, to balance the risk of each type of transport out.
In a flash the world is greener, safer for pedestrians, and no more daft articles about SUVs with 700hp win win ?
Wouldn't this better be solved by taxing by weight or requiring a different (more difficult to get) license class for larger passenger vehicles? So what about a momentum limit on roads? Its kinda there already. We don't let HGVs do ninety down the motorway because we can all se the problems with that. Why not limit the car depending on its ability to stop just like we do with HGVs
So motorcycles can do ninety down motorways and a similarly raised speed limit elsewhere. Cars have to be limited to their stopping ability. So if you have a light sports car capable of stopping on a sixpence its allowed to do eighty, but if you have a giant suv with a giant engine its limited to its ability to stop with twice the weight of the sportscar and is only allowed to do sixty on the motorway.
The speed limits for other roads would be similarly adjusted and cars would have a disc in the window in a simple traffic light system showing their capability. Nothing needed for a motorcycle. Green for lightweight sportscar, amber for SUV etc. motorcycle can do 10mph above any speed limit, green can do the speed limit and amber 10mph less and red 20mph less, to balance the risk of each type of transport out.
In a flash the world is greener, safer for pedestrians, and no more daft articles about SUVs with 700hp win win ?
Limits (speed or momentum) are pretty limited in what they can discourage. I bombed down the M40 at 90 the other week, despite the limit being 70 because the chances of me getting a ticket are minimal (which had it happened, I would have accepted). If any kind of speed limit is to have an effect, it needs to be enforced at a draconian level and I'm pretty sure most motorists don't want that.
Also given the prevalence of 20/30/40 everywhere drivers who cant get that different roads have different speed limits, how could they possibly manage with different car types.
The big problem is that SUVs are huge money spinners for manufacturers. Take the cheapest hatch, jack it up a bit, then add a ghastly body kit and sell it for 10-20% or more extra. It's so bad that some manufacturers are culling non SUV models.
So as you drive along, you can't make the estimate of what's happening based on size of vehicles like trucks at 56 and cars etc at 70, but you have to use a spreadsheet and input each vehicle to know whats happening?
1000s of vehicles all with different speed limits?
What about for example an EV with standard battery pack versus one with an extended pack, and therefore much have heavier?
What about a car with a 1L 100bhp engine versus a different model of the same car with a 500bhp engine
Can't see all that being very easy
1000s of vehicles all with different speed limits?
What about for example an EV with standard battery pack versus one with an extended pack, and therefore much have heavier?
What about a car with a 1L 100bhp engine versus a different model of the same car with a 500bhp engine
Can't see all that being very easy
TikTak said:
I get the point, because all these 700bhp EVs floating about now when Karen couldn't park her 1.4 Golf. Yeah I don't trust her with that power, size and weight either ...
but it'll be far far too hard to implement and police, even with broad categories.
I may be a little uninformed, but I'm also in the market for a new car. Could you tell me what 700hp SUV, comparable in price I assume, to a 1.4 Golf you're referring to? Sounds like something I should consider.but it'll be far far too hard to implement and police, even with broad categories.
I keep waiting for this apocalypse of uncontrolled acceleration events and accidents from these super fast EVs that seems likely, given the incompetence of the typical driver and the potency of these EVs, but it's yet to happen. Most seem to start in eco mode that makes them sluggish, and most EV drivers seem more concerned with range maybe.
In any case, deal with the problem if it ever happens? In all likelihood the accident avoidance features in any new EV probably makes them much less likely to get into an accident than a 2010 car, they make it very hard for dozy NPCs to drive into each other.
In any case, deal with the problem if it ever happens? In all likelihood the accident avoidance features in any new EV probably makes them much less likely to get into an accident than a 2010 car, they make it very hard for dozy NPCs to drive into each other.
I really don't understand where the thought that bikes can out-brake cars comes from... (before we even account for reaction times, varying road conditions etc.)
If you want to put a weight limit on cars via a tax, fine, but any thought that it would somehow rid the world of SUV's is a fallacy. A T-Roc weighs at most 40kg more than an equivalent Golf. So there won't be anything in it.
If you want to put a weight limit on cars via a tax, fine, but any thought that it would somehow rid the world of SUV's is a fallacy. A T-Roc weighs at most 40kg more than an equivalent Golf. So there won't be anything in it.
Not sure people even understand the van speed limits here. I suppose you could do something broad brush, maybe by weight rather than iconography. This is Egypt I think but I've seen it elsewhere, Iraq for one. (Yes, slow lanes exist).
It's not going to happen though, there's no money in it and the knobbers in that there London with their private jets on one side of the house or business class plane tickets on the other side couldn't care less about the little people using roads.
It's not going to happen though, there's no money in it and the knobbers in that there London with their private jets on one side of the house or business class plane tickets on the other side couldn't care less about the little people using roads.
GeniusOfLove said:
I keep waiting for this apocalypse of uncontrolled acceleration events and accidents from these super fast EVs that seems likely, given the incompetence of the typical driver and the potency of these EVs, but it's yet to happen. Most seem to start in eco mode that makes them sluggish, and most EV drivers seem more concerned with range maybe.
In any case, deal with the problem if it ever happens? In all likelihood the accident avoidance features in any new EV probably makes them much less likely to get into an accident than a 2010 car, they make it very hard for dozy NPCs to drive into each other.
My wife keeps dinging her mustang mach-e, every time at about 4 mph, can't see her having huge accidents at 200 mphIn any case, deal with the problem if it ever happens? In all likelihood the accident avoidance features in any new EV probably makes them much less likely to get into an accident than a 2010 car, they make it very hard for dozy NPCs to drive into each other.
kambites said:
I don't think it makes any practical sense. My 800kg Elise traveling at 70mph takes a damned slight longer to stop than a 2000kg SUV traveling at 45mph, despite the fact they are carrying the same kinetic energy.
Think of it this way your elise and a two tonne SUV are going down a high street at 40mph. A child runs out. Which car avoids the child?3GGy said:
TikTak said:
I get the point, because all these 700bhp EVs floating about now when Karen couldn't park her 1.4 Golf. Yeah I don't trust her with that power, size and weight either ...
but it'll be far far too hard to implement and police, even with broad categories.
I may be a little uninformed, but I'm also in the market for a new car. Could you tell me what 700hp SUV, comparable in price I assume, to a 1.4 Golf you're referring to? Sounds like something I should consider.but it'll be far far too hard to implement and police, even with broad categories.
That said, if you want examples of EVs I can't walk 2 streets away without seeing that have at least triple the power. Model X/Y Dual Motors common as anything here, they're all 500hp upwards. I-Paces, 400bhp, Q8's 400bhp. Not to mention dozens of Taycans, Model 3s and recently Audi e-tron GTs.
Anyway ... on topic. As I said I think it's hard to police and probably not that reasonable. It definitely remains to be seen how taxing, other charges, parking etc will change as the vehicles do. You'd assume that some road rules would too.
3GGy said:
TikTak said:
I get the point, because all these 700bhp EVs floating about now when Karen couldn't park her 1.4 Golf. Yeah I don't trust her with that power, size and weight either ...
but it'll be far far too hard to implement and police, even with broad categories.
I may be a little uninformed, but I'm also in the market for a new car. Could you tell me what 700hp SUV, comparable in price I assume, to a 1.4 Golf you're referring to? Sounds like something I should consider.but it'll be far far too hard to implement and police, even with broad categories.
MustangGT said:
3GGy said:
TikTak said:
I get the point, because all these 700bhp EVs floating about now when Karen couldn't park her 1.4 Golf. Yeah I don't trust her with that power, size and weight either ...
but it'll be far far too hard to implement and police, even with broad categories.
I may be a little uninformed, but I'm also in the market for a new car. Could you tell me what 700hp SUV, comparable in price I assume, to a 1.4 Golf you're referring to? Sounds like something I should consider.but it'll be far far too hard to implement and police, even with broad categories.
julian64 said:
kambites said:
I don't think it makes any practical sense. My 800kg Elise traveling at 70mph takes a damned slight longer to stop than a 2000kg SUV traveling at 45mph, despite the fact they are carrying the same kinetic energy.
Think of it this way your elise and a two tonne SUV are going down a high street at 40mph. A child runs out. Which car avoids the child?Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff