Please help me wire my garage lights
Discussion
Hi there,
So I've completed the structural work on my garage (late 80s/early 90s) and now I want to first fix the 16 LED downlight I'm planning for the ceiling before the plasterer arrives to board and plaster the ceiling.
Here's the current lay out.
1 = The light switch
A = The original 3 wire ceiling boss
B = A spur ceiling boss that comes from A and works together with A from switch 1
Red Beam = A structural beam that cannot be routed around
Green Beam = A structure beam that CAN be routed around (at the south end) or over (at the north end).
Hope that all makes sense. I want to replace the current two bosses with 16 LED downlights as well as adding a second switch by the second door. I have 1.5mm twin and earth, as well as clips to securely mount it, and Wagos and a Wago box for the connection to 'A'. I will leave nice long loops for each downlight so I can cut the roof, pull it down, snip, install the LED and push all back up again.
So, my plan to do the first fix is below...
HOWEVER, I have questions.
- Is this the best way to wire it or am I being thick?
- I don't know how to go about adding new switch '2' to the system. Where/how should that be wired in? (to A or to 1?)
- What if I wanted to add a third switch by the front garage door?
To make things easier for anyone replying, I've also got a blank layout that you can edit directly!
I'm not overly concerned with the actual wiring up at the end.. I can always get an electrician in if I get stuck, and I have a brand-new modern fuse box so if I get something wrong I won't die. However, I want to make sure I have all the first fix in the right places so that I'm not needing to run cables after the ceiling is up and plastered.
Thanks in advance!
PS... I'm doing this next week so speed is of the essence
So I've completed the structural work on my garage (late 80s/early 90s) and now I want to first fix the 16 LED downlight I'm planning for the ceiling before the plasterer arrives to board and plaster the ceiling.
Here's the current lay out.
1 = The light switch
A = The original 3 wire ceiling boss
B = A spur ceiling boss that comes from A and works together with A from switch 1
Red Beam = A structural beam that cannot be routed around
Green Beam = A structure beam that CAN be routed around (at the south end) or over (at the north end).
Hope that all makes sense. I want to replace the current two bosses with 16 LED downlights as well as adding a second switch by the second door. I have 1.5mm twin and earth, as well as clips to securely mount it, and Wagos and a Wago box for the connection to 'A'. I will leave nice long loops for each downlight so I can cut the roof, pull it down, snip, install the LED and push all back up again.
So, my plan to do the first fix is below...
HOWEVER, I have questions.
- Is this the best way to wire it or am I being thick?
- I don't know how to go about adding new switch '2' to the system. Where/how should that be wired in? (to A or to 1?)
- What if I wanted to add a third switch by the front garage door?
To make things easier for anyone replying, I've also got a blank layout that you can edit directly!
I'm not overly concerned with the actual wiring up at the end.. I can always get an electrician in if I get stuck, and I have a brand-new modern fuse box so if I get something wrong I won't die. However, I want to make sure I have all the first fix in the right places so that I'm not needing to run cables after the ceiling is up and plastered.
Thanks in advance!
PS... I'm doing this next week so speed is of the essence
Appreciate this isn't answering your question, but at this stage it's perhaps worth considering whether you wish to have the ability to only light a proportion of the garage for certain tasks. My garage is split in to the 3 zones with a 3 gang switch, so when I want to pop in to one side of the garage to get something I can just light up a third of the space which enough to see what I need to without having every light on. When I'm out doing general work I will leave the middle off as left and right is enough, but can switch the final switch on if I need super lighting across the whole space.
Chipstick said:
Appreciate this isn't answering your question, but at this stage it's perhaps worth considering whether you wish to have the ability to only light a proportion of the garage for certain tasks. My garage is split in to the 3 zones with a 3 gang switch, so when I want to pop in to one side of the garage to get something I can just light up a third of the space which enough to see what I need to without having every light on. When I'm out doing general work I will leave the middle off as left and right is enough, but can switch the final switch on if I need super lighting across the whole space.
Cheers - great thought and in the days of incandescent bulbs I'd have probably agreed with you - but with the low energy usage of LEDs I'm a fan of 'you can't have too much light' so I'll just be having the whole thing on. I've done my sums and 16 LEDs is still well within the acceptable limits. Appreciate the comment though, thank you. My overall thoughts are two fold.
- If doing that, rather than have them all in a line, have a couple of lights with three cables.
- Dont use downlighters, and instead use 600mm pannel and or led battern lights because the light is miles better.
In addition
- Why are you keeping ceiling rose A if the plaster has not been yet.
- You need a 3+E cable from one switch to the other for double switching.
- Dont bother with zoning for a single open plan garage as its just over complicating it.
- There is certainly scope for PIR, but ensure you have a way to overide it to on when doing project work.
- If doing that, rather than have them all in a line, have a couple of lights with three cables.
- Dont use downlighters, and instead use 600mm pannel and or led battern lights because the light is miles better.
In addition
- Why are you keeping ceiling rose A if the plaster has not been yet.
- You need a 3+E cable from one switch to the other for double switching.
- Dont bother with zoning for a single open plan garage as its just over complicating it.
- There is certainly scope for PIR, but ensure you have a way to overide it to on when doing project work.
dhutch said:
My overall thoughts are two fold.
- If doing that, rather than have them all in a line, have a couple of lights with three cables.
- Dont use downlighters, and instead use 600mm pannel and or led battern lights because the light is miles better.
In addition
- Why are you keeping ceiling rose A if the plaster has not been yet.
- You need a 3+E cable from one switch to the other for double switching.
- Dont bother with zoning for a single open plan garage as its just over complicating it.
- There is certainly scope for PIR, but ensure you have a way to overide it to on when doing project work.
Thanks very much for replying, I really appreciate it... some questions/comments below... - If doing that, rather than have them all in a line, have a couple of lights with three cables.
- Dont use downlighters, and instead use 600mm pannel and or led battern lights because the light is miles better.
In addition
- Why are you keeping ceiling rose A if the plaster has not been yet.
- You need a 3+E cable from one switch to the other for double switching.
- Dont bother with zoning for a single open plan garage as its just over complicating it.
- There is certainly scope for PIR, but ensure you have a way to overide it to on when doing project work.
- If doing that, rather than have them all in a line, have a couple of lights with three cables.
I'm afraid I don't understand this one at all.. can you explain as if I was an idiot?
- Dont use downlighters, and instead use 600mm pannel and or led battern lights because the light is miles better.
I would, but what's not in this diagram is the joist layout. On the right of the main beam they run north to south. On the left and north of the main beam they run north to south. But on the left and south of the main beam they run east to west... so any regular layout for recessed panels is impossible and much the same for recessed batons... and I want to recess everything. Do you really think the lights will be an issue?
- Why are you keeping ceiling rose A if the plaster has not been yet.
Ah, not actually keeping 'A', il'll replace it with a wago box and tuck it up into the roof space.
- You need a 3+E cable from one switch to the other for double switching.
Ah, okay so it's switch to switch and I need 1.5mm 3 core + Earth between the two? I don't suppose you could explain how I wire that (or point me to a diagram somewhere?)
Thanks so much!
For switching look at the Quinetic products:
https://www.quinetic.co.uk/#products
They have wire-free switches which send a control signal to a receiver mounted in the switch or up in the cieling which actually does the switching. Note there two ranges of products - RF & Wi-Fi & the RF type are just stand alone don't work off a wi-fi router. you can have multiple switches all controlling the same receiver & you can have multiple receivers if necessary. They even have a wire-free PIR unit which will control the receivers via RF.
https://www.quinetic.co.uk/#products
They have wire-free switches which send a control signal to a receiver mounted in the switch or up in the cieling which actually does the switching. Note there two ranges of products - RF & Wi-Fi & the RF type are just stand alone don't work off a wi-fi router. you can have multiple switches all controlling the same receiver & you can have multiple receivers if necessary. They even have a wire-free PIR unit which will control the receivers via RF.
Mr Pointy said:
For switching look at the Quinetic products:
https://www.quinetic.co.uk/#products
They have wire-free switches which send a control signal to a receiver mounted in the switch or up in the cieling which actually does the switching. Note there two ranges of products - RF & Wi-Fi & the RF type are just stand alone don't work off a wi-fi router. you can have multiple switches all controlling the same receiver & you can have multiple receivers if necessary. They even have a wire-free PIR unit which will control the receivers via RF.
Ah, interesting! I'll take a look, thank you. Seems a shame not to just wire everything since I've got the chance, but would give me the flexibility to change things later if it doesn't work out. Cheers!https://www.quinetic.co.uk/#products
They have wire-free switches which send a control signal to a receiver mounted in the switch or up in the cieling which actually does the switching. Note there two ranges of products - RF & Wi-Fi & the RF type are just stand alone don't work off a wi-fi router. you can have multiple switches all controlling the same receiver & you can have multiple receivers if necessary. They even have a wire-free PIR unit which will control the receivers via RF.
For 2 switches, google "3 way switch". The general gist though is you give a live to the common terminal of one switch, which puts that live on to one of the two "travelers", the other switch then connects one of the travelers to the common of that switch, then on the lights and on to neutral. You can also use a crossover switch in the middle and have 3 switches, meaning you could have one in the house as well.
I agree with the comment above about LED panels rather than downlighters, the bigger the area of the light panel the less shadow you get.
If you decide on PIR then you might want to consider one with an override to allow you to force it on and to stay on, it'll be a bit annoying if you're doing some work under your car and the lights go off because the senor can't see you.
I agree with the comment above about LED panels rather than downlighters, the bigger the area of the light panel the less shadow you get.
If you decide on PIR then you might want to consider one with an override to allow you to force it on and to stay on, it'll be a bit annoying if you're doing some work under your car and the lights go off because the senor can't see you.
Edited by RizzoTheRat on Friday 11th April 14:03
Her's how to wire a two way & three way switch:
https://flameport.com/electric/lighting_circuits/l...
https://flameport.com/electric/lighting_circuits/l...
The Quinetic products remove the need for extra wiring though: if you put one of their in-line receiver switches where your current switch is then you can just add two more switches in the other positions & you are done with no need for addditional wiring.
https://flameport.com/electric/lighting_circuits/l...
https://flameport.com/electric/lighting_circuits/l...
The Quinetic products remove the need for extra wiring though: if you put one of their in-line receiver switches where your current switch is then you can just add two more switches in the other positions & you are done with no need for addditional wiring.
MDifficult said:
Oh, and one bonus question...
Anyone ever done a PIR in their garage to avoid needing all these bloody switches? Stupid idea? Or good idea?
If so.. where/how on earth would I do that?
Thanks!
(this question is less important than the main ones)
My Mum (aged 82, but the PIR has been there for years) has automated lighting in her garage. It's great from a security point of view. She can drive down the dark and quiet lane to the back of the house, press the electric door opener and drive into her now lit up garage without even getting out of the car. She can then close the door and get out of the car. She then opens the door to the garden and the light on the back of the house triggers. The lights in the garage go a bit off after she has closed the pedestrian door.Anyone ever done a PIR in their garage to avoid needing all these bloody switches? Stupid idea? Or good idea?
If so.. where/how on earth would I do that?
Thanks!
(this question is less important than the main ones)
Very re-assuring for a spritely but at the end of the day, elderly lady. The PIR is set so the garage door sets it off as it opens, thete is also a manual override button by the pedestrian door.
MDifficult said:
- If doing that, rather than have them all in a line, have a couple of lights with three cables.
I'm afraid I don't understand this one at all.. can you explain as if I was an idiot?
So sort of something like this:I'm afraid I don't understand this one at all.. can you explain as if I was an idiot?
- Blue is 2+E to lights, and switch(es).
- Green 3+E between the two switch.
- Red 2+E feed/loop bringing the power.
You might well be able to move the incoming feed from 'A' to sw '1' and stick the associated wagos in the back of the switch box even if you have to swap it for a slightly deeper box. A lot of light switches now have a neutral terminal in these days too, as bring the feed/loop into the switch rather than the light fitting is increasingly common.
I wouldnt hide a junction box inside the middle of a sheet of plasterboard, even if it was wagos in a suitable enclosure.
LastPoster said:
PIR ... it's great from a security point of view
On a related topic, I have opted to avoid PIR control flood lights in our house.- However I do have warm white PIR wall lights both front and rear.
- And I do have some Osram LEDvance warm white floodlights on a switch.
MDifficult said:
- Dont use downlighters, and instead use 600mm panel and or led batten lights because the light is miles better.
I would, but what's not in this diagram is the joist layout. On the right of the main beam they run north to south. On the left and north of the main beam they run north to south. But on the left and south of the main beam they run east to west... so any regular layout for recessed panels is impossible and much the same for recessed batons... and I want to recess everything. Do you really think the lights will be an issue?
I thought you were pasterboarding the ceiling? What does the joist direction matter?I would, but what's not in this diagram is the joist layout. On the right of the main beam they run north to south. On the left and north of the main beam they run north to south. But on the left and south of the main beam they run east to west... so any regular layout for recessed panels is impossible and much the same for recessed batons... and I want to recess everything. Do you really think the lights will be an issue?
As said, i would opt for LED panels and or strip batten lights as they give a much wider angle light.
However if you want round fittings, I would be looking at the 6" dia frosted diffuser type lights (basically small round panel lights) rather than smaller GU10 based type downlighters which just sent all the light downwards!
RizzoTheRat said:
For 2 switches, google "3 way switch". The general gist though is you give a live to the common terminal of one switch, which puts that live on to one of the two "travelers", the other switch then connects one of the travelers to the common of that switch, then on the lights and on to neutral. You can also use a crossover switch in the middle and have 3 switches, meaning you could have one in the house as well.
I agree with the comment above about LED panels rather than downlighters, the bigger the area of the light panel the less shadow you get.
If you decide on PIR then you might want to consider one with an override to allow you to force it on and to stay on, it'll be a bit annoying if you're doing some work under your car and the lights go off because the senor can't see you.
Brilliant, thank you very much! I agree with the comment above about LED panels rather than downlighters, the bigger the area of the light panel the less shadow you get.
If you decide on PIR then you might want to consider one with an override to allow you to force it on and to stay on, it'll be a bit annoying if you're doing some work under your car and the lights go off because the senor can't see you.
Edited by RizzoTheRat on Friday 11th April 14:03
dhutch said:
So sort of something like this:
- Blue is 2+E to lights, and switch(es).
- Green 3+E between the two switch.
- Red 2+E feed/loop bringing the power.
You might well be able to move the incoming feed from 'A' to sw '1' and stick the associated wagos in the back of the switch box even if you have to swap it for a slightly deeper box. A lot of light switches now have a neutral terminal in these days too, as bring the feed/loop into the switch rather than the light fitting is increasingly common.
I wouldnt hide a junction box inside the middle of a sheet of plasterboard, even if it was wagos in a suitable enclosure.
Again, brilliant, thank you - food for thought- Blue is 2+E to lights, and switch(es).
- Green 3+E between the two switch.
- Red 2+E feed/loop bringing the power.
You might well be able to move the incoming feed from 'A' to sw '1' and stick the associated wagos in the back of the switch box even if you have to swap it for a slightly deeper box. A lot of light switches now have a neutral terminal in these days too, as bring the feed/loop into the switch rather than the light fitting is increasingly common.
I wouldnt hide a junction box inside the middle of a sheet of plasterboard, even if it was wagos in a suitable enclosure.
dhutch said:
I thought you were pasterboarding the ceiling? What does the joist direction matter?
As said, i would opt for LED panels and or strip batten lights as they give a much wider angle light.
However if you want round fittings, I would be looking at the 6" dia frosted diffuser type lights (basically small round panel lights) rather than smaller GU10 based type downlighters which just sent all the light downwards!
Hopefully I'm explaining this right.. every panel I've seen needs to be recessed into the ceiling (i.e. it's thicker than a sheet of plasterboard). Because of the variety in how my joists run, I can't create an even layout of panels. I would have to have some out of position to avoid the joists which would drive me nuts. Does that make sense? As said, i would opt for LED panels and or strip batten lights as they give a much wider angle light.
However if you want round fittings, I would be looking at the 6" dia frosted diffuser type lights (basically small round panel lights) rather than smaller GU10 based type downlighters which just sent all the light downwards!
However, you've got me questioning my choice of lights now so I may go back to the drawing board and look at other options - thank you
MDifficult said:
dhutch said:
I thought you were pasterboarding the ceiling? What does the joist direction matter?
As said, i would opt for LED panels and or strip batten lights as they give a much wider angle light.
However if you want round fittings, I would be looking at the 6" dia frosted diffuser type lights (basically small round panel lights) rather than smaller GU10 based type downlighters which just sent all the light downwards!
Hopefully I'm explaining this right.. every panel I've seen needs to be recessed into the ceiling (i.e. it's thicker than a sheet of plasterboard). Because of the variety in how my joists run, I can't create an even layout of panels. I would have to have some out of position to avoid the joists which would drive me nuts. Does that make sense? As said, i would opt for LED panels and or strip batten lights as they give a much wider angle light.
However if you want round fittings, I would be looking at the 6" dia frosted diffuser type lights (basically small round panel lights) rather than smaller GU10 based type downlighters which just sent all the light downwards!
However, you've got me questioning my choice of lights now so I may go back to the drawing board and look at other options - thank you
Else as said, batten lights, or smaller round panels.
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GLCPL18CT.ht...
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Lighting_M...
Its hard to have too much light in a garage.
I did mine on the super cheap and 6 years ago, so actually used reclaimed florescent fittings which have4x 18w T8 tubes in each.
Put up 9 in a 3x3 matrix in a 5x6m garage and while its ample its not overkill. You would LED now, but I got 12 od them for £25 so you can't complain on cost to buy and I can quickly swap them out later.
I literally just stuck a wood screw through the back wall into each joist (600 centres, no plasterboard) and binned off the reflectors.
I did mine on the super cheap and 6 years ago, so actually used reclaimed florescent fittings which have4x 18w T8 tubes in each.
Put up 9 in a 3x3 matrix in a 5x6m garage and while its ample its not overkill. You would LED now, but I got 12 od them for £25 so you can't complain on cost to buy and I can quickly swap them out later.
I literally just stuck a wood screw through the back wall into each joist (600 centres, no plasterboard) and binned off the reflectors.
Hmm.. I've given this some thought and I wonder if I could save myself a whole heap of bother and just use the existing wiring to install four 5ft LED battons (two off each existing connection) then add some of those quinetc wireless switches / PIRs to my heart's content. No wiring changes at all.
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