Anyone know anything about the Marcos Mantula/Spider?
Discussion
Hi,
I'm sure I'll become one of the most prolific posters on here before I actually buy anything, but....
Can anyone tell me a bit about the Marcos Mantula?
They seem to fall into my sub-£7k budget and thats about all I know. I presume they've got the Ford V6 in (or is it Rover V8?) I've always thought Marcos's were aimed at people who thought TVRs were for wimps - what are they like to drive? I'd immagine a bit of a handful, but I'm ready to be corrected on that.
Chris
I'm sure I'll become one of the most prolific posters on here before I actually buy anything, but....
Can anyone tell me a bit about the Marcos Mantula?
They seem to fall into my sub-£7k budget and thats about all I know. I presume they've got the Ford V6 in (or is it Rover V8?) I've always thought Marcos's were aimed at people who thought TVRs were for wimps - what are they like to drive? I'd immagine a bit of a handful, but I'm ready to be corrected on that.
Chris
The Marcos Mantula also came with 3.9 V8 from rover, there is one for sale in NL too
a nice one...it says 3.5L but I think its a 3.9 too...
http://auto.marktplaats.nl/overige-au
GTRene
a nice one...it says 3.5L but I think its a 3.9 too... http://auto.marktplaats.nl/overige-au
GTRene
I bought a Mantula a few months back. There are many engine options the most popular being the rover v8 but they are available with the essex v6 and many more. I went for a 2ltr pinto for reliability and insurance although its still got plenty of power! I test drove a 3ltr v6 it was a lovely car with bags of power and noise, the only problem was the bump steer, hitting anything bigger than an ant made the car feel unstable! There is an anti bump steer kit available for a few hunded pounds, but afer a test drive you will know if you need one. Look out for ill fitting bodywork joins and rotting frames.
All together i'm very pleased with mine its quick good handeling and in my opinion one of the best looking cars ever made!
check out www.redlinesportscars.com there are some cracking examples on this site and Jeremy knows everything you'll ever need to know!
Oh and no cortina in my one its all triumph and sierra
i think the Martina was cortina based.
All together i'm very pleased with mine its quick good handeling and in my opinion one of the best looking cars ever made!
check out www.redlinesportscars.com there are some cracking examples on this site and Jeremy knows everything you'll ever need to know!
Oh and no cortina in my one its all triumph and sierra
i think the Martina was cortina based.
Edited by bookemdanno on Wednesday 25th October 18:34
bookemdanno said:
I bought a Mantula a few months back. There are many engine options the most popular being the rover v8 but they are available with the essex v6 and many more. I went for a 2ltr pinto for reliability and insurance although its still got plenty of power! I test drove a 3ltr v6 it was a lovely car with bags of power and noise, the only problem was the bump steer, hitting anything bigger than an ant made the car feel unstable! There is an anti bump steer kit available for a few hunded pounds, but afer a test drive you will know if you need one. Look out for ill fitting bodywork joins and rotting frames.
All together i'm very pleased with mine its quick good handeling and in my opinion one of the best looking cars ever made!
check out www.redlinesportscars.com there are some cracking examples on this site and Jeremy knows everything you'll ever need to know!
Oh and no cortina in my one its all triumph and sierra
i think the Martina was cortina based.
All together i'm very pleased with mine its quick good handeling and in my opinion one of the best looking cars ever made!
check out www.redlinesportscars.com there are some cracking examples on this site and Jeremy knows everything you'll ever need to know!
Oh and no cortina in my one its all triumph and sierra
i think the Martina was cortina based.
Edited by bookemdanno on Wednesday 25th October 18:34
Any idea what the price range would be? Think they're out of my budget to be honest.
Well, I'll start with IMO, YMMV, E&OE.....
I had an '86 Mantula Spyder some years back. It started as 'factory built'. What they didn't say was that the original owner had suppplied all the mechanical parts for them to build it with...
Agree, panel fit varies from bad to simply shocking. I got pretty p155ed off with people shouting out 'Oy, your door isn't shut properly'. Like anything, it can be fixed but takes a bit of effort.
If it's got the original Triumph wishbones & rack then the bump steer will be verging on the lethal. There was a mod developed by Steve Greenwood that involved cutting & welding the steering arms to lower them which did greatly help the problem. On my car, I got a modified rack (shorter bar), longer wishbones and new steering arms to take rose joints so I could easily move them up & down to dial out the bumpsteer (at the front). If it's a live axle car, it'll also bump steer something chronic at the back as well. I installed a cut-down Jauguar IRS in mine. Final iteration before I sold mine to a dealer in Holland was to remove the Triumph parts at the front and fit Ford Cortina uprights with suitable mods to the upper and lower wishbones/wishbones. Final iteration had zero bumpsteer, fine ride & handling and parts not likely to snap at embarrasing moments (one Triumph upright snapped clean through one day...yes, it was nicely greased, just not up to carrying a V8, 205 tyres and the forces involved)
The chassis on a standard car is WAY too flexible in torsion. Very prone to rot on the tubes that are to the front, bottom, outside corner of the footwells.
IRS cars are a bit better, but the chalk-line-on-the-floor chassis jigs tended to lead to a fair degree of variation in bracket locations. If it happens to be an after-market IRS conversion, Marcos tended to do these by cutting chunks out of the boot so aren't hugely accurate either.
I had a 4.2 in mine.
Loved the look of it (with the addition of Martina style flared front arches and wider track front 'bones), loved the V8 sounds. loved driving along on a fine summer day with the roof down. Hated it on a wet day with the roof up, hated it in town (steering very heavy). Hated the rubbish panel fit. Hated the original ride & handling and wobbly chassis.....but it was pretty much sorted by the time I sold it.
FWIW, the wooden cars are pretty nice (they copied the Triumph geometry properly on those). The later cars are much better (Mantara onward).
Other random recollections....factory fitted front springs coil-bound on ours. Gearbox always leaks oil despite assorted rebuilds. Spark plugs are a challenge to get at. Ground clearance is a real problem. Factory powder coat on chassis was very poor. Carpets WILL rot. Wiring loom is not the nicest out there. Footwell gets F hot even with lots of wrap/shielding.
Again....IMO, YMMV
If anyone is REALLY interested, I've still got all the pictures I took of the work I did.
I had an '86 Mantula Spyder some years back. It started as 'factory built'. What they didn't say was that the original owner had suppplied all the mechanical parts for them to build it with...
Agree, panel fit varies from bad to simply shocking. I got pretty p155ed off with people shouting out 'Oy, your door isn't shut properly'. Like anything, it can be fixed but takes a bit of effort.
If it's got the original Triumph wishbones & rack then the bump steer will be verging on the lethal. There was a mod developed by Steve Greenwood that involved cutting & welding the steering arms to lower them which did greatly help the problem. On my car, I got a modified rack (shorter bar), longer wishbones and new steering arms to take rose joints so I could easily move them up & down to dial out the bumpsteer (at the front). If it's a live axle car, it'll also bump steer something chronic at the back as well. I installed a cut-down Jauguar IRS in mine. Final iteration before I sold mine to a dealer in Holland was to remove the Triumph parts at the front and fit Ford Cortina uprights with suitable mods to the upper and lower wishbones/wishbones. Final iteration had zero bumpsteer, fine ride & handling and parts not likely to snap at embarrasing moments (one Triumph upright snapped clean through one day...yes, it was nicely greased, just not up to carrying a V8, 205 tyres and the forces involved)
The chassis on a standard car is WAY too flexible in torsion. Very prone to rot on the tubes that are to the front, bottom, outside corner of the footwells.
IRS cars are a bit better, but the chalk-line-on-the-floor chassis jigs tended to lead to a fair degree of variation in bracket locations. If it happens to be an after-market IRS conversion, Marcos tended to do these by cutting chunks out of the boot so aren't hugely accurate either.
I had a 4.2 in mine.
Loved the look of it (with the addition of Martina style flared front arches and wider track front 'bones), loved the V8 sounds. loved driving along on a fine summer day with the roof down. Hated it on a wet day with the roof up, hated it in town (steering very heavy). Hated the rubbish panel fit. Hated the original ride & handling and wobbly chassis.....but it was pretty much sorted by the time I sold it.
FWIW, the wooden cars are pretty nice (they copied the Triumph geometry properly on those). The later cars are much better (Mantara onward).
Other random recollections....factory fitted front springs coil-bound on ours. Gearbox always leaks oil despite assorted rebuilds. Spark plugs are a challenge to get at. Ground clearance is a real problem. Factory powder coat on chassis was very poor. Carpets WILL rot. Wiring loom is not the nicest out there. Footwell gets F hot even with lots of wrap/shielding.
Again....IMO, YMMV
If anyone is REALLY interested, I've still got all the pictures I took of the work I did.
For me personally (same disclaimers apply as above!) It seems to have the same basic appeal as TVR, but even more 'idiosyncrasees' and a bigger price tag.
You do wonder who designs these suspension systems. Even a Meccano mock up would show roughly what's happening and anyone with some trig knowledge and preferably a computer could do a reasonable job. That's not a dig at Marcos specifically, loads of low volume and kit manufacturers seem to have it. The main car I'm looking at a bit further down the line is the GTM K3 and that's renowned for it too. The thing is that costs less than half the price of an entry level Marcos, so I can justify spending time to move the steering rack mounting points and stuff......
You do wonder who designs these suspension systems. Even a Meccano mock up would show roughly what's happening and anyone with some trig knowledge and preferably a computer could do a reasonable job. That's not a dig at Marcos specifically, loads of low volume and kit manufacturers seem to have it. The main car I'm looking at a bit further down the line is the GTM K3 and that's renowned for it too. The thing is that costs less than half the price of an entry level Marcos, so I can justify spending time to move the steering rack mounting points and stuff......
I must say I was mortified when I took the body off to reveal the chassis......I added loads of additional fillets at joints, plated the sides, stuff like that. Funny thing was, while looking at a much later car at a gathering some time after...I spotted loads of features almost identical to the ones I'd installed. Seems I wasn't far wrong in identifying problem areas and what to do about them.
FWIW, despite all the agro and reservations, I'm glad we owned one. If I was doing it again, I'd probably go for a late Mantara and stuff an LS-1 motor in it or maybe repeat what I did with the Mantual and go for the Jaguar IRS again. I'd definatley go for power steering of some sort and A/C for sure.
FWIW, despite all the agro and reservations, I'm glad we owned one. If I was doing it again, I'd probably go for a late Mantara and stuff an LS-1 motor in it or maybe repeat what I did with the Mantual and go for the Jaguar IRS again. I'd definatley go for power steering of some sort and A/C for sure.
Hey, Chris - I may need to ask your advice for my mate's Mantula Spyder that I will need to start work on soon. It needs a hefty chassis modification (possible remake), so if there's anything that is worth doing, it'll be useful to know.
However, I won't really know what's necessary until I take the body off (probably looking at doing this some time next year)
However, I won't really know what's necessary until I take the body off (probably looking at doing this some time next year)
If the chassis is getting rebuilt / replaced, then I can suggest adding additional members in the rear to increase the stiffness, assuming the car is live axled.
Not too sure exactly where to suggest as my own car (live axle Mantula Coupe) is going through an extensive rebuild, and quite a few things are changing from standard.
Ones I can recommend are in the sections where the chassis heads rearwards for the rear trailing arm mounts, add a diagonal in there between the two parrallel rails running at the side of the boot, suggest the high end of the diagonal at the rear.
Then add diagonals, running roughly from the front of the above mentioned diagonals, towards the back of the tunnel, running under the axle tubes.
The body is due to come off my car in the next month or so, I should have a better idea what's going to happen with the chassis then.
Good luck!
Not too sure exactly where to suggest as my own car (live axle Mantula Coupe) is going through an extensive rebuild, and quite a few things are changing from standard.
Ones I can recommend are in the sections where the chassis heads rearwards for the rear trailing arm mounts, add a diagonal in there between the two parrallel rails running at the side of the boot, suggest the high end of the diagonal at the rear.
Then add diagonals, running roughly from the front of the above mentioned diagonals, towards the back of the tunnel, running under the axle tubes.
The body is due to come off my car in the next month or so, I should have a better idea what's going to happen with the chassis then.
Good luck!
Edited by chrisj on Monday 13th November 12:39
Rightyho - I think you're possibly a bit to far away to pop up for a visit to see what state's yours in (I'm in Guildford), but if you can take some pictures, that may help me tremendously.
I don't exactly know what axle he's got; I've only looked at the front part of the chassis when he hit a rock and cracked the sump (so I'll probably be making some form of sump guard while I'm at it). The chassis did look fairly rusty, and it failed its recent MOT (4 sheets worth of faults & warnings) so my feeling is that a fairly extensive rebuild is required.
I don't exactly know what axle he's got; I've only looked at the front part of the chassis when he hit a rock and cracked the sump (so I'll probably be making some form of sump guard while I'm at it). The chassis did look fairly rusty, and it failed its recent MOT (4 sheets worth of faults & warnings) so my feeling is that a fairly extensive rebuild is required.
If it's any help Tribbles, PM me your e-mail and I'll sort out a few scans of photos I took when doing my car. I added lots of joint braces etc and if you are doing as extensive a re-work as seems likely, then adding a few kilos of steel at that stage is a smart move. Probably the biggest addition to stiffness came from plating the tunnel in the Spyder (Coupe didn't have this as the body was stronger....). I added plating to the outer rails as I mentioned and that helped too. One thing I considerd before I did mine with the cut-down Jag IRS was a unit that had tubular wishbones and a Sierra diff in a neat, compact tubular cradle that I'm sure would have slotted in to the live axle chassis with little effort.
The bracing around the rear Chris suggests sounds ideal if you are keeping a live axle.
The bracing around the rear Chris suggests sounds ideal if you are keeping a live axle.
I was planning on putting some additional bracing in the rear anyway, but when we set too trying to seperate the body from the chassis, levering the body on the boot box against the rear stays, you could actually see the chassis flexing. At first I thought it was just a trick of the light and it was the body flexing but no, checked again and the chassis was deflecting several mm's!!
Probably the biggest stiffening brace I'm adding is the 6 point rollcage, with bolt in stays to link the rearmost suspension mounts to the back of the rollcage.
Quite a bit more weight, but it should add quite a bit in terms of stiffness, not to mention the obvious benefits should I manage to flip the car...
Probably the biggest stiffening brace I'm adding is the 6 point rollcage, with bolt in stays to link the rearmost suspension mounts to the back of the rollcage.
Quite a bit more weight, but it should add quite a bit in terms of stiffness, not to mention the obvious benefits should I manage to flip the car...
chrisj said:
I was planning on putting some additional bracing in the rear anyway, but when we set too trying to seperate the body from the chassis, levering the body on the boot box against the rear stays, you could actually see the chassis flexing. At first I thought it was just a trick of the light and it was the body flexing but no, checked again and the chassis was deflecting several mm's!!
Probably the biggest stiffening brace I'm adding is the 6 point rollcage, with bolt in stays to link the rearmost suspension mounts to the back of the rollcage.
Quite a bit more weight, but it should add quite a bit in terms of stiffness, not to mention the obvious benefits should I manage to flip the car...
Probably the biggest stiffening brace I'm adding is the 6 point rollcage, with bolt in stays to link the rearmost suspension mounts to the back of the rollcage.
Quite a bit more weight, but it should add quite a bit in terms of stiffness, not to mention the obvious benefits should I manage to flip the car...
That deflection you observed doesn't surprise me at all, sad to say. How a simple un-braced square is supose to carry loads is beyond me......it would be fair to say that the body shell is a stressed member on those cars. Whether it was intended that way is quite another question. The Spyder body is increadibly weak at the back just above/forward of the rear arches. Great care required when lifting off to avoid damage, so clearly there isn't much strength to be had from the Spyder tub. Coupe is better because of the roof of course.
I suspect you cage will indeed be a significant factor! Top plan.
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