Car stolen, Police say, It's a civil matter.................
Discussion
A trader comes into showroom to ask if we have any cheap PX's to clear. Tell him, there's a N reg BMW 320 tourer that can be £750. He says, can I have the keys to look around it. No problem, 5 minutes later, car drives away. He's been in a few times, so I think, no worries. He comes back 3 hours later and PLACES KEYS BACK ON SALESMANS DESK. He then haggles a deal. Tells salesman, he's just off to get money from bank. Salesman goes to move car and finds keys are gone..... Oh and so is car. 5 that evening after 50ish phone calls, guy says I'm on way back with money. Never turns up. We call Police to report it stolen the next morning after trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. The officers attending call the guy and he agrees to bring car back by 1 o'clock. 5 o'clock, still no car. I then call Police and
Police say, It's a civil matter and vehicle is not being circulated as stolen.......
I then go absolutely spastic over the phone to Sussex Police HQ. An inspector calls me back and says, yes of course it's theft.
Car is now recirculated as stolen but 4 days later, still no car.
If vehicle is not recovered, do you think I can sue the Police for value of car??
Police say, It's a civil matter and vehicle is not being circulated as stolen.......
I then go absolutely spastic over the phone to Sussex Police HQ. An inspector calls me back and says, yes of course it's theft.
Car is now recirculated as stolen but 4 days later, still no car.
If vehicle is not recovered, do you think I can sue the Police for value of car??
paoloh said:
Car is now recirculated as stolen but 4 days later, still no car.
If vehicle is not recovered, do you think I can sue the Police for value of car??
Good luck with that. What if they got straight on the case but didn't find it - would you still be looking to sue? If not, what makes you think they would definitely have found it but for their delay, and should therefore compensate you?If vehicle is not recovered, do you think I can sue the Police for value of car??
paoloh said:
As to the other question of why should I be able to sue, what if he sold it in the time the police had it not registered as stolen???
The police 'registering' it as stolen might not have prevented it from being sold, and any argument to the contrary must assume that they would definitely have marched immediately round there* and recovered the car to prevent it being sold. That strikes me as being a legally unsound assumption, ergo you don't have a case.*and let's face it, who knows where the car was taken?
Edited by minimoog on Saturday 29th September 19:59
paoloh said:
A trader comes into showroom to ask if we have any cheap PX's to clear. Tell him, there's a N reg BMW 320 tourer that can be £750. He says, can I have the keys to look around it. No problem, 5 minutes later, car drives away. He's been in a few times, so I think, no worries. He comes back 3 hours later and PLACES KEYS BACK ON SALESMANS DESK. He then haggles a deal. Tells salesman, he's just off to get money from bank. Salesman goes to move car and finds keys are gone..... Oh and so is car. 5 that evening after 50ish phone calls, guy says I'm on way back with money. Never turns up. We call Police to report it stolen the next morning after trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. The officers attending call the guy and he agrees to bring car back by 1 o'clock. 5 o'clock, still no car. I then call Police and
Police say, It's a civil matter and vehicle is not being circulated as stolen.......
I then go absolutely spastic over the phone to Sussex Police HQ. An inspector calls me back and says, yes of course it's theft.
Car is now recirculated as stolen but 4 days later, still no car.
If vehicle is not recovered, do you think I can sue the Police for value of car??
You have a number of problems to overcome before you can sue. Firstly, it is probable that the offender will say you said he could have the car pending payment: i.e. that you entered into a contract with him. There would, in these circumstances, be no criminal offence. No criminal offence, then no culpable conduct by police. The police inspector meant to say that, on the information given by you, it would appear that a case of theft might be disclosed. He will also say that he was trying to calm the situation at the time.Police say, It's a civil matter and vehicle is not being circulated as stolen.......
I then go absolutely spastic over the phone to Sussex Police HQ. An inspector calls me back and says, yes of course it's theft.
Car is now recirculated as stolen but 4 days later, still no car.
If vehicle is not recovered, do you think I can sue the Police for value of car??
Secondly, even if the chap says the wrong thing on first questioning - be it true or no - and leaves some doubt as to whether he had the necessary guilty intent, then the CPS would not support a prosecution as there would, it seems, be little chance of a conviction as, of course, the chap will have a brief who will tell him that what he meant to say was that he understood there was an agreement between him and you. After all, he had worked closely with you in the past, similar agreements, late payment, that sort of thing. Always been good for the money in the past but he took exception to your tone and . . . all that sort of thing.
Thirdly, the price of the car is very low. I don't know what this deal of yours was, but it was less than £750. If you ask an honest solicitor they will tell you not to bother.
Failing to enter a stolen vehicle on the PNC is not, of itself, sufficient to prove loss on your behalf. After all, the car was already stolen.
paoloh said:
If vehicle is not recovered, do you think I can sue the Police for value of car??
The Police don't have a 'duty of care' towards the public as far as protecting them from crime is concerned. If they fail to competently conduct an investigation and as a consequence you suffer a loss at the hands of a criminal they are immune from a claim of negligence.There may be other courses of action you can take against the Police but suing them isn't one of them.
VH, why when it is a police issue, you can't see both sides??
Lesson to be learned from this though. If you allow someone to test drive a vehicle and they say they have paid you or have agreed to pay you, the police will not get involved. That is not a slight on the police but it is just the way the law is set out. I'm just glad it wasn't a high value vehicle he took.
Sellers beware!!
Lesson to be learned from this though. If you allow someone to test drive a vehicle and they say they have paid you or have agreed to pay you, the police will not get involved. That is not a slight on the police but it is just the way the law is set out. I'm just glad it wasn't a high value vehicle he took.
Sellers beware!!
How long does the vehicle have to be in the "thief's" possession before there is an intent to permanently deprive?
Some similarities with the case of the (not) stolen handbag.
Streaky
Some similarities with the case of the (not) stolen handbag.
Streaky
paoloh said:
VH, why when it is a police issue, you can't see both sides??
Lesson to be learned from this though. If you allow someone to test drive a vehicle and they say they have paid you or have agreed to pay you, the police will not get involved. That is not a slight on the police but it is just the way the law is set out. I'm just glad it wasn't a high value vehicle he took.
Sellers beware!!
No, I didn't say that they wouldn't get involved at all in this case. I agreed that I can't see it getting inside a court room though. There is a difference.Lesson to be learned from this though. If you allow someone to test drive a vehicle and they say they have paid you or have agreed to pay you, the police will not get involved. That is not a slight on the police but it is just the way the law is set out. I'm just glad it wasn't a high value vehicle he took.
Sellers beware!!
streaky said:
How long does the vehicle have to be in the "thief's" possession before there is an intent to permanently deprive?
Some similarities with the case of the (not) stolen handbag.
Streaky
That depends on what he does with it.Some similarities with the case of the (not) stolen handbag.
Streaky
It's as soon as he treats it as his own to dispose of, regardless of the other's rights.
Points to prove for theft
Dishonest action.
Appropriation of property belonging to another.
Without consent.
Intent to permanently deprive.
Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 30th September 09:14
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