Support apology for treatment of Alan Turing

[fadeaway]

Someone's setup a petition on the Number 10 site to call for an apology for way Alan Turing was treated. Thought people here might like to support it.

petition said:

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to apologize for the prosecution of Alan Turing that led to his untimely death

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/turing/

For those that don't know, Alan Turing is the father of computer science. Amongst his other achievements he worked at Bletchley Park during the second world war, and was instrumental in breaking the Enigma. After the war he was stripped of his security clearance because he refused to lie about his sexuality, which led him into depression and taking his own life. A true genius and great Britain. You can read about him here:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_turing

[grumbledoak]

Has Gordon ever said 'Sorry' for anything? God knows, he's had enough reason to.

Edited by grumbledoak on Tuesday 18th August 17:51

[dcb]

fadeaway said:

Someone's setup a petition on the Number 10 site to call for an apology for way Alan Turing was treated.

Ah, the modern world. Is it August again ?

I fail to understand any advantage of doing this.

The PM is a busy man with a *lot* of problems to solve and
how can it be useful for him or his workers to spend even
ten minutes apologising for the past ?

Yes AMT got treated badly, but it was as per the rules at
that time, some sixty years ago.

While AMT was a *brilliant* individual, he travelled far faster and
further than any other team member, which might explain
why the NPL Pilot ACE was a "technically unique machine" as soon as
it was constructed.

Which is to say nothing about AMT's prewar work or Bletchley Park
work.

Much more detail in Simon Lavington's Early British Computers book
and Andrew Hodges's Turing biography.

[Nolar Dog]

He's got a main road named after him what more does he bloody want!

[CommanderJameson]

dcb said:

The PM is a busy man with a *lot* of problems to solve

FFS, if he's got time to ring up a fat Scottish woman who drank a bit too much gin then he's got time to say sorry for fking over one of the finest minds this country's ever produced.

ETA: The bd's got 82 days off. He's got time.

Edited by CommanderJameson on Tuesday 18th August 20:33

[PJR]

grumbledoak said:

Has Gordon ever said 'Sorry' for anything? God knows, he's had enough reason to.

He couldn't care less for government petitions either. We've known that much for a while.

Nolar Dog said:

He's got a main road named after him what more does he bloody want!

The famous Apple computer logo (an Apple with a bite taken out) is supposedly also a tribute to Alan Turing. He supposedly committed suicide by taking a bite from a cyanide laced Apple, which was discovered beside his body.

P,

Edited by PJR on Tuesday 18th August 20:52

[King Herald]

Who are 'they' going to apologise to?

They've demanded Gordon Brown to apologise for trashing the UK economy.

WTF good will that do anybody?

[Lord Pikey]

It appears to be ramping up a little now.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8226509.stm

[Quick silver]

King Herald said:

Who are 'they' going to apologise to?

They've demanded Gordon Brown to apologise for trashing the UK economy.

WTF good will that do anybody?

+1

[onlynik]

He's only gone and done it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8249792.stm

[mybrainhurts]

The Pope won't like this....

[King Herald]

"Gordie has issued an apology to a Second World War code-breaker who committed suicide after being found guilty of gross indecency with another man."

I thought the guy had died years ago?

Maybe Gordie is so far out of touch with reality he hasn't realised?

[roadsweeper]

As someone who signed the petition and also urged others to do so, I think this is a good thing.

I suspect Turing did far more for this country than most of the people questioning the worth of the government issuing a formal apology. Perhaps it means something to his family (if he has any), or other gay people who've been treated badly? Certainly, it can't do any harm and at least it is on the public record now.

[Don]

Whilst my respect for Turing and his achievements is very great I'm afraid this modern habit of issuing apologies for previous generations is pointless and hollow.

Recognition that previous generations did not think as we do is fine...an understanding of history is important so that we do not make the same mistakes again. But "Apologies"? Why?

[Nolar Dog]

I agree with Don.

[grumbledoak]

Don said:

pointless and hollow.

And just to add to the irony, now the only apology Brown has ever 'issued' is for something he wasn't responsible for.

[Olivero]

Don said:

Whilst my respect for Turing and his achievements is very great I'm afraid this modern habit of issuing apologies for previous generations is pointless and hollow.

Recognition that previous generations did not think as we do is fine...an understanding of history is important so that we do not make the same mistakes again. But "Apologies"? Why?

"In 1952, he was convicted of ‘gross indecency’ – in effect, tried for being gay. His sentence – and he was faced with the miserable choice of this or prison - was chemical
castration by a series of injections of female hormones. He took his own life just two years later."

My thinking is that the 'apology' is about clearing a mans name and putting the (official) record straight. History books can now firmly record his part in the war effort while also recognize that how he was treated was not right and would (or certainly should) not happen happen in the Britain of today.

"So on behalf of the British government, and all those who live freely thanks to Alan’s work I am very proud to say: we’re sorry, you deserved so much better."

[dcb]

Olivero said:

how he was treated was not right

According to today's rules yes, but according to the rules at the time, he
got exactly what he deserved.

Homosexuality wasn't legalised until about 1968, which indicates Turing
was about forty years before his time at least.

I'd be interested to see what Brown does about the other folks convicted
of this crime at that time.

If Brown does nothing, it will speak volumes for his pathetic attempt
to fish for votes, to say nothing of the modern desire to rewrite history.

I seem to remember a very similar debate around the abolition of
slavery - the fact that England was the first country to ban it
wasn't really mentioned.

Anyone want to set up a petition about the way the UK and USA ostensibly
fought for freedom in WW2, but then let the countries of Eastern Europe
fall into communist slavery in the late 1940s ?

Thought not.

[King Herald]

Olivero said:

Don said:

Whilst my respect for Turing and his achievements is very great I'm afraid this modern habit of issuing apologies for previous generations is pointless and hollow.

Recognition that previous generations did not think as we do is fine...an understanding of history is important so that we do not make the same mistakes again. But "Apologies"? Why?

"In 1952, he was convicted of ‘gross indecency’ – in effect, tried for being gay. His sentence – and he was faced with the miserable choice of this or prison - was chemical
castration by a series of injections of female hormones. He took his own life just two years later."

My thinking is that the 'apology' is about clearing a mans name and putting the (official) record straight. History books can now firmly record his part in the war effort while also recognize that how he was treated was not right and would (or certainly should) not happen happen in the Britain of today.

"So on behalf of the British government, and all those who live freely thanks to Alan’s work I am very proud to say: we’re sorry, you deserved so much better."

The Kray twins would get six months community service if they were convicted today, so does somebody now need to apologise to them about spending their whole lives in jail?

[Olivero]

dcb said:

Olivero said:

how he was treated was not right

According to today's rules yes, but according to the rules at the time, he got exactly what he deserved.

Yes it was right according to the law at the time and I suppose to the general social mood of the time. However I am quite sure there would have been a sizable number of people who knew it was the wrong thing to do, even if they only voiced their views in private.

I would say he got what was expected of the time, not what was deserved.

dcb said:

I seem to remember a very similar debate around the abolition of slavery - the fact that England was the first country to ban it wasn't really mentioned.

A very good comparison, as it is now also unthinkable that this very much a part of society at the time. There were people at the time who talked about what they felt was morally and wanted the rules/law to be changed.
The reason England is not credited with outlawing slavery first is that (IMO) they were hesitant to 'rewrite' history or at least draw attention to the past.

dcb said:

If Brown does nothing, it will speak volumes for his pathetic attempt
to fish for votes, to say nothing of the modern desire to rewrite history.

Agreed.

dcb said:

Anyone want to set up a petition about the way the UK and USA ostensibly
fought for freedom in WW2, but then let the countries of Eastern Europe
fall into communist slavery in the late 1940s ?

Thought not.

Ah, but you can set up a petition right now on just such a subject, whether now is the 'right' time to admit to mistakes/actions of the past is another matter. That the subject can be discussed should be seen for what it is, freedom of thought, freedom to Analise the past.

Do I think the Government of the day should apologise for events of the past, no. I do think that it is important to openly acknowledge how and why events took place. For them to be clearly and accurately recorded. To just say for instance that 'war is bad' is a bit obvious and of no help to anyone. To admit to mistakes, errors and wrong doings is useful for future generations, as we can then hope they will not repeat history.

I personally feel it was correct to officially apologise for the treatment of Turing for the benefit of his and his family's name. History is not being rewritten, but rather officially acknowledged.