Crossed the hatch markings to join the motorway - Careless driving?
Discussion
After 5 years of not a single point on my licence I got pulled today driving to work.
I was joining the motorway (m1 j46 southbound from Leeds) and the clown in front in his v8 TD Range Rover was doing 40mph. Being in my almost dangerously slow 1.4 ZX I've got a little bit sensitive about people doing this, as it leaves me struggling to get up to speed while they speed up at the last second and mince off into the distance.
So I looked, clocked a lorry in lane 1 with another lorry in lane 2 over talking about 2-3 lorry lengths back, nothing in lane 3. As it looked perfectly safe, I decided to pull into lane 1 across the solid white lines and hatch markings.
As a result of this I got pulled and 3 points for careless driving.
Now that leaves me confused about a few things. One, do I need to tell my insurance? Copper says no but that sounds a little unlikely to me.
Second how much would it affect my insurance? Again copper says hardly any but those words careless driving say otherwise to me.
Finally, is careless driving not a bit harsh for the circumstances? Would there be any value in going to court to try get it knocked down to a lesser charge?
As a side note, I feel a little bit like a victim of the speed camera/everyone gets points culture. I really don't see why he couldn't have just had a word.
I was joining the motorway (m1 j46 southbound from Leeds) and the clown in front in his v8 TD Range Rover was doing 40mph. Being in my almost dangerously slow 1.4 ZX I've got a little bit sensitive about people doing this, as it leaves me struggling to get up to speed while they speed up at the last second and mince off into the distance.
So I looked, clocked a lorry in lane 1 with another lorry in lane 2 over talking about 2-3 lorry lengths back, nothing in lane 3. As it looked perfectly safe, I decided to pull into lane 1 across the solid white lines and hatch markings.
As a result of this I got pulled and 3 points for careless driving.
Now that leaves me confused about a few things. One, do I need to tell my insurance? Copper says no but that sounds a little unlikely to me.
Second how much would it affect my insurance? Again copper says hardly any but those words careless driving say otherwise to me.
Finally, is careless driving not a bit harsh for the circumstances? Would there be any value in going to court to try get it knocked down to a lesser charge?
As a side note, I feel a little bit like a victim of the speed camera/everyone gets points culture. I really don't see why he couldn't have just had a word.
Is careless driving a fixed penalty now?
Is this one of these discretionary things which everyone was worried was going to happen - if the officers having a bad day you get a ticket.
I'd have thought it would only be careless if youve caused someone else to do avoiding action or similar. If everuone else was ok with your manoeuvre, then theres not really a problem.
Were the hatcted lines over long at this junction for this to happen? I cant think of many where I cant just slide out into the motorway if its clear.
White lines arent as solid as they used to be.
They used to be dont cross in any circumstances but theyve been extending double white lines into safe areas so much that crossing them has become commonplace. I thought you were now able to cross them to overtake relatively slow vehicles such as tractors cyclists pedestrians, slow trucks if its clear to do so.
If someone's driving too slowly up a slip road, It could be said they were driving without due care and you did the right thing by passing them to resolve a situation.
Not over helpful I know
Is this one of these discretionary things which everyone was worried was going to happen - if the officers having a bad day you get a ticket.
I'd have thought it would only be careless if youve caused someone else to do avoiding action or similar. If everuone else was ok with your manoeuvre, then theres not really a problem.
Were the hatcted lines over long at this junction for this to happen? I cant think of many where I cant just slide out into the motorway if its clear.
White lines arent as solid as they used to be.
They used to be dont cross in any circumstances but theyve been extending double white lines into safe areas so much that crossing them has become commonplace. I thought you were now able to cross them to overtake relatively slow vehicles such as tractors cyclists pedestrians, slow trucks if its clear to do so.
If someone's driving too slowly up a slip road, It could be said they were driving without due care and you did the right thing by passing them to resolve a situation.
Not over helpful I know
Solid whites around hatch markings or chevrons?
There is a big difference, if it's the former you can probably get away with it. Unfortunately motorway junctions are usually chevrons so it's an automatic 3 points. I thought it was an offence in itself though rather than careless driving.
There is a big difference, if it's the former you can probably get away with it. Unfortunately motorway junctions are usually chevrons so it's an automatic 3 points. I thought it was an offence in itself though rather than careless driving.
saaby93 said:
Is careless driving a fixed penalty now?
Is this one of these discretionary things which everyone was worried was going to happen - if the officers having a bad day you get a ticket.
I'd have thought it would only be careless if youve caused someone else to do avoiding action or similar. If everuone else was ok with your manoeuvre, then theres not really a problem.
Were the hatcted lines over long at this junction for this to happen? I cant think of many where I cant just slide out into the motorway if its clear.
White lines arent as solid as they used to be.
They used to be dont cross in any circumstances but theyve been extending double white lines into safe areas so much that crossing them has become commonplace. I thought you were now able to cross them to overtake relatively slow vehicles such as tractors cyclists pedestrians, slow trucks if its clear to do so.
If someone's driving too slowly up a slip road, It could be said they were driving without due care and you did the right thing by passing them to resolve a situation.
Not over helpful I know
HC says..Is this one of these discretionary things which everyone was worried was going to happen - if the officers having a bad day you get a ticket.
I'd have thought it would only be careless if youve caused someone else to do avoiding action or similar. If everuone else was ok with your manoeuvre, then theres not really a problem.
Were the hatcted lines over long at this junction for this to happen? I cant think of many where I cant just slide out into the motorway if its clear.
White lines arent as solid as they used to be.
They used to be dont cross in any circumstances but theyve been extending double white lines into safe areas so much that crossing them has become commonplace. I thought you were now able to cross them to overtake relatively slow vehicles such as tractors cyclists pedestrians, slow trucks if its clear to do so.
If someone's driving too slowly up a slip road, It could be said they were driving without due care and you did the right thing by passing them to resolve a situation.
Not over helpful I know
"Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less....
and
"..if the area is marked with chevrons and bordered by solid white lines you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency.."
Sections 129 and 130..
blank said:
Solid whites around hatch markings or chevrons?
There is a big difference, if it's the former you can probably get away with it. Unfortunately motorway junctions are usually chevrons so it's an automatic 3 points. I thought it was an offence in itself though rather than careless driving.
I would assume that it was chevrons as opposed to hatch markings.There is a big difference, if it's the former you can probably get away with it. Unfortunately motorway junctions are usually chevrons so it's an automatic 3 points. I thought it was an offence in itself though rather than careless driving.
Well as we've established that I've been done fairly enough does anyone know about the impact on my insurance or whether I need to tell them now?
saaby93 said:
If someone's driving too slowly up a slip road, It could be said they were driving without due care and you did the right thing by passing them to resolve a situation.
I think you would struggle to get any court to agree with that interpretation, unless they were practically stopped. I see some truly atrocious driving on slip roads from time to time, with drivers undertaking, overtaking, barging in and generally making life awkward and sometimes dangerous for people around them. In this case it sounds as if the OP got impatient, jumped across the painted island to get onto the main carriageway and then overtook (or tried to overtake) the vehicle in front as it was trying to move out. That's a very bad way to deal with the situation and if it was done in front of BiB I'm not surprised they took a dim view of it.Diagram 1013.1 TSGD is the double white line which can be an offence if crossed or straddled depending on whether continuous or dotted drivers side.
The width between the two can be increased but if so then to emphasis then there will be DIAGONAL LINES between them.
That mention has CHEVRON between them so they do not comply as a DWL.
That mentioned in this post DWL with chevrons between applies to Motorways as part of the verge or hardshoulder between the main carriageways and a slip road where traffic passes on either side in the same direction and where traffic must not enter EXCEPT in an EMERGENCY. They are there to maintain lane discipline.
So one can now see why they went for careless driving as opposed to failing to conform to traffic sign.
dvd
The width between the two can be increased but if so then to emphasis then there will be DIAGONAL LINES between them.
That mention has CHEVRON between them so they do not comply as a DWL.
That mentioned in this post DWL with chevrons between applies to Motorways as part of the verge or hardshoulder between the main carriageways and a slip road where traffic passes on either side in the same direction and where traffic must not enter EXCEPT in an EMERGENCY. They are there to maintain lane discipline.
So one can now see why they went for careless driving as opposed to failing to conform to traffic sign.
dvd
GreenV8S said:
saaby93 said:
If someone's driving too slowly up a slip road, It could be said they were driving without due care and you did the right thing by passing them to resolve a situation.
I think you would struggle to get any court to agree with that interpretation, unless they were practically stopped. I see some truly atrocious driving on slip roads from time to time, with drivers undertaking, overtaking, barging in and generally making life awkward and sometimes dangerous for people around them. In this case it sounds as if the OP got impatient, jumped across the painted island to get onto the main carriageway and then overtook (or tried to overtake) the vehicle in front as it was trying to move out. That's a very bad way to deal with the situation and if it was done in front of BiB I'm not surprised they took a dim view of it.In case anyone is interested, the copper said in that situation I should have dropped back from the car in front in order to have a gap to build up speed. Something which genuinely hadn't occured to me before but is now quite blindingly obvious.
Still sounds like a bad hair day, A good ticking off and telling about dropping back ought to have been sufficient.
What chance of phoning up the station, apologising profusely and saying that youve taken on board what was said about dropping back.
Are these things rescindable?
Dropping back is what I'd say given that someone is dawdling down the sliproad. It does make those behind wonder what you're up to, especailly when you next begin to accelerate to match speed with those in the inside lane.
What chance of phoning up the station, apologising profusely and saying that youve taken on board what was said about dropping back.
Are these things rescindable?
Dropping back is what I'd say given that someone is dawdling down the sliproad. It does make those behind wonder what you're up to, especailly when you next begin to accelerate to match speed with those in the inside lane.
T89 Callan said:
Well done, another motorist criminalised and punished for trying to drive safely.
Good Work.
Clap Clap Clap Clap
No - he broke the rules and got caught. Slow people on slip roads are idiots but hopping over the solid lines to dodge them is just as stupid. Motoring in this country can be done in two ways....stick to the rules and never get a problem (neither of my parents have ever had a ticket and only get above 70mph at heathrow as they go on holiday) or, drive just over the edge and accept the odd ticket. (third option is drive like a tGood Work.
Clap Clap Clap Clap
t but lets assume there are not many of those here!)There is a seperate FPN code for this, something about crossing a verge(still 3 pointer though).
i wouldn't do it, not only for the three points reason, but also because of what can be concealed on the chevrons - drains, gullies, tyre bits, glass, the odd car exhaust - all of which have severe detrimental effect on your own vehicle!!!!
i wouldn't do it, not only for the three points reason, but also because of what can be concealed on the chevrons - drains, gullies, tyre bits, glass, the odd car exhaust - all of which have severe detrimental effect on your own vehicle!!!!
GreenV8S said:
number2301 said:
I didn't overtake or attempt to over take the vehicle in front of me
How did the manoeuvre benefit you, if you stayed behind Mr. Slowcoach the whole time? Admittedly on reflection it wasn't the wisest thing to do, but in the situation in a car which was vastly slower than I'm used to it seemed like the safest way to go about things at the time. Lesson learnt I guess.
number2301 said:
GreenV8S said:
number2301 said:
I didn't overtake or attempt to over take the vehicle in front of me
How did the manoeuvre benefit you, if you stayed behind Mr. Slowcoach the whole time? Admittedly on reflection it wasn't the wisest thing to do, but in the situation in a car which was vastly slower than I'm used to it seemed like the safest way to go about things at the time. Lesson learnt I guess.
saaby93 said:
But he didnt perform a maneouvre collecting another driver ?
If he'd been one of those fair enough
The 'ticking off & hold back' should have been enough and would have been enough.
Having done that what penalty should be given to someone who does the collecting another motorist?
Saaby whilst i accept that and he may have done it perfectly "safely" how was the officer to know that he doesnt do it on a regular basis?? If the officer doesnt discourage it firmly then whats to stop him doing it again in the future and actually collect someone.If he'd been one of those fair enough
The 'ticking off & hold back' should have been enough and would have been enough.
Having done that what penalty should be given to someone who does the collecting another motorist?
It's to me a kinda of two minds situation. In one sense i also think he should simply have got a warning and been explained why its a bad idea etc and educated rather than simply given a ticket but on the other hand there are so many idiots out there who simply dont give a s
t that the officers are put in a rock and hard palce situation.jimmyb said:
Saaby whilst i accept that and he may have done it perfectly "safely" how was the officer to know that he doesnt do it on a regular basis?? If the officer doesnt discourage it firmly then whats to stop him doing it again in the future and actually collect someone.
Yeah I know its difficult and hindsight and all that but I'd assume it was a one off and wait there again next week.If he'd done the collecting manoeuvre then yes
Innocent until proven guilty etc and yes I know he was guilty of crossing the white line. Would it be on the computer that he'd been ticked off for it last week?
Maybe he had
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