Notification of Speeding offence by Recorded Delivery

[Chequred Demon]

I have read on other threads that if you are sent a speeding notification that it must now be delivered to you within 14 days? And that the law has been recently changed to this effect?

If the speeding notification is sent by Recorded Delivery and nobody is at the property to sign for the letter within 14 days and it is returned twice to the issuing office (Post offices return recorded letters after 7 days) is it now deemed to be served, or not ?

Thanks

[vonhosen]

Chequred Demon said:

I have read on other threads that if you are sent a speeding notification that it must now be delivered to you within 14 days? And that the law has been recently changed to this effect?

The law hasn't been changed. It has to be served within 14 days.

Chequred Demon said:

If the speeding notification is sent by Recorded Delivery and nobody is at the property to sign for the letter within 14 days and it is returned twice to the issuing office (Post offices return recorded letters after 7 days) is it now deemed to be served, or not ?

Thanks

Yep, served.

[Chequred Demon]

OK

How are you supposed to know the letter has been sent in the first place ?

[vonhosen]

Chequred Demon said:

OK

How are you supposed to know the letter has been sent in the first place ?

The prosecution will show evidence that it was served (by recorded delivery if that's what you are talking about) & that satisfies the law.

The law is designed to show that all reasonable attempts were made to inform the registered keeper within a reasonable time frame that prosecution was being considered against a driver of the vehicle for a listed offence on <date/time> at <place>. It isn't a requirement that the actual driver be informed within 14 days.

[Chequred Demon]

OK so what happens if you are unable to reply in the given time frame, due to the fact you had no knowledge of the letter; Will you receive a more severe punishment?

Will it have to go to court for instance and therefore will the costs be greater ?
If you do not receive the notification of the court summons via recorded delivery what happens?

Is the "final solution" to have your licence revoked without your knowledge. Then could you get prosecuted for driving without a valid licence, therefore no insurance etc, have your car crushed and a driving ban enforced?

...and all because you can't get to the door in time for example ?

[JustinP1]

Chequred Demon said:

OK so what happens if you are unable to reply in the given time frame, due to the fact you had no knowledge of the letter; Will you receive a more severe punishment?

Will it have to go to court for instance and therefore will the costs be greater ?
If you do not receive the notification of the court summons via recorded delivery what happens?

Is the "final solution" to have your licence revoked without your knowledge. Then could you get prosecuted for driving without a valid licence, therefore no insurance etc, have your car crushed and a driving ban enforced?

...and all because you can't get to the door in time for example ?

You best not be using a public toilet either, or you are sure to get AIDS for your trouble. With the greatest of respect, it's a load of rubbish.

To get to that stage you would have to ignore at least 6 letters.

And in ANY case, no matter what case is brought against you and you are tried in your absence, the law provides you to provide a Statutory Declaration that you were unaware of the case against you and it is instantly reversed.

[vonhosen]

Chequred Demon said:

OK so what happens if you are unable to reply in the given time frame, due to the fact you had no knowledge of the letter; Will you receive a more severe punishment?

Will it have to go to court for instance and therefore will the costs be greater ?
If you do not receive the notification of the court summons via recorded delivery what happens?

Is the "final solution" to have your licence revoked without your knowledge. Then could you get prosecuted for driving without a valid licence, therefore no insurance etc, have your car crushed and a driving ban enforced?

...and all because you can't get to the door in time for example ?

The NIP must be served within 14 days.
The section 172 notice need not be sent with it, but often is.
You have 28 days to reply to the Sec 172.

In respect of the offence itself (once the driver is identified) they don't 'have' to offer a fixed penalty or issue a summons depending on when the reply was made. Whether they proceed by offer of course, warning, fpn or summons is totally at their discretion. You aren't 'entitled' to one of those options based on the fact you returned within a certain time frame.

If a summons is issued/served & you don't turn up, then likely the case will be heard in your absence.

It's my experience that if a recorded delivery attempt is made, the Post person leaves me a note letting me they tried to deliver but were unsuccessful. I then contact them to arrange getting said letter/parcel.

[Chequred Demon]

Thank you very much for your replies.

I am however looking at the "big picture" here and simply exploring my "Human Rights" on this point of law.

Is the issuing body able to take me to court without my knowledge? the result of which is that eventually I will be arrested at the side of the road as a common criminal by the police using ANPR, have my property destroyed, my livelyhood ruined and my family forced to walk, maybe miles?

... and I really would have no idea that I had done anything wrong, due to the fact that I don't wish to collect unsolicited mail from a sorting office miles away?

Yes or No ?

[vonhosen]

If they have done what was reasonable (& required in law) in attempting to contact/inform the registered keeper, then they've done their part & what is required of them.
Your choice of action/inaction is yours, but it may have consequences that you don't like & are not of your choosing.

[Chequred Demon]

Why should I be forced to travel miles at inconvenient times to get mail I do not want, just in case it may contain a notification of speeding?

It really is time the motorist forced a change in the law in this country. There are millions of us after all and this kind of "unreasonable" behaviour has to be stopped!

[Asbo rat]

I take it by the, "what ifs", and "buts", that you "may" be waiting on said "correspondance"? If so, why not say, instead of beating around the bush..?

If you've committed a speeding offence, but trying to think of ways of avoiding said penalty, youre more than likely to become worse off for "evading" the postie and his gifts..

[vonhosen]

Chequred Demon said:

Why should I be forced to travel miles at inconvenient times to get mail I do not want, just in case it may contain a notification of speeding?

It really is time the motorist forced a change in the law in this country. There are millions of us after all and this kind of "unreasonable" behaviour has to be stopped!

If you drive there are responsibilities & accountability, if you don't like them, don't drive & then you don't have to worry about them.

I personally want drivers to be responsible & accountable, so this motorist won't be joining your crusade call.

[saaby93]

Loads of stuff on s172 (tell us who was driving) and NIP
under search s172
eg http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
If you get it wrong you're in for 6 points

[Chequred Demon]

I am not expecting a speeding fine, I actually drive very little and walk 4 miles a day to and from work.

I am simply interested in my human rights and the process in which the English law "evolves".

My point is that you and I are not only supposed to somehow find the time to know every clause of a hopelessly complicated and ever changing legal system but also that without your knowledge you can become a criminal with extremely dire consequences.

Doesn't that worry you at all?

BTW This doesn't simply apply to motoring.

[JustinP1]

Chequred Demon said:

Why should I be forced to travel miles at inconvenient times to get mail I do not want, just in case it may contain a notification of speeding?

It really is time the motorist forced a change in the law in this country. There are millions of us after all and this kind of "unreasonable" behaviour has to be stopped!

Whats unreasonable?

All you need to do as a registered car owner is to provide a service address for mail. Where exactly would you be travelling miles from?

If for whatever reason you were physically not able to respond you have a legitimate defence.

You are not taken to court without being sent at least 4 letters. Then you receive a 5th letter from the court informing you of the decision.

At that point should you not have been aware, you can STILL get the whole thing nullified.

The sixth letter comes from the DVLA directly informing you to surrender your licence - and even THEN you can still get the whole thing nullified.


There is nothing unreasonable. If you keep the DVLA up to date with your address you will be given something like 4 months and 6 letters to respond to.

• From personal experience* I can tell you that even should your identity be stolen and someone physically ensured that you don't get mail intended for you - there is no way your car will be crushed. A short phone call to the DVLA and an appointment at the court reversed everything.

What you are talking about simply does not happen.

[Asbo rat]

Nope. Never ever ever speed. Ever... . It just seems strange that you pick a subject that your'e very interested in, and go to some depths to qualify the "ifs" and "buts". If your question was purely for "information" purposes, im sure you could have found your answer using the inter web face page thingy.. . Its not your worry as you hardly drive.

[Chequred Demon]

Whatever ASBO Rat. But ponder on the fact that I am a motorist - so go figure....

IMHO this is the best forum in the UK for this kind of stuff and the interweb is full of rubbish.

Thanks everyone for all your help.

It looks like there is a "catch all" legal defence in this circumstance and I can sleep happily in my bed.

Good Night!

[14-7]

Chequred Demon said:

I am simply interested in my human rights and the process in which the English law "evolves".

My point is that you and I are not only supposed to somehow find the time to know every clause of a hopelessly complicated and ever changing legal system but also that without your knowledge you can become a criminal with extremely dire consequences.

This matter has been done to death really on PH.

However, just to type it all out again - these issues were addressed by the House of Lords in Brown v Scott where their Lordships held that the crucial issues were whether Sec 172

- represented a disproportionate response to teh high incidence of death and injury on the roads by reason of the misuse of cars; and/or
- undermined the right to a fair trial when the drivers' admission was relied on at trial.

Their Lordships held that the European Convention had to be read as balancing community rights with individual rights. The answer to both issues was 'no' because (amongst other things):

- the answer required of a keeper by s 172 could not of itself incriminate the suspect since it was not an offence merely to drive a car.
- all those who owned or drove cars had subjected themselves to a regulatory regime of which sec 172 was a part.

As for how law evolves then simply put ignorance of the law is no defence.

You can't state that just because you shouldn't be expected to check or collect mail you shouldn't be held responsible. What if your insurance company cancelled your policy due to non-payment and sent you a letter but you couldn't be bothered opening it? Will you complain that it wasn't your fault you didn't read or open the letter hoping to get off that way?

[marshalla]

Chequred Demon said:

My point is that you and I are not only supposed to somehow find the time to know every clause of a hopelessly complicated and ever changing legal system but also that without your knowledge you can become a criminal with extremely dire consequences.

Doesn't that worry you at all?

Ignorantia Juris non excusat

[Asbo rat]

Chequred Demon said:

Whatever ASBO Rat. But ponder on the fact that I am a motorist - so go figure....

IMHO this is the best forum in the UK for this kind of stuff and the interweb is full of rubbish.

Thanks everyone for all your help.

It looks like there is a "catch all" legal defence in this circumstance and I can sleep happily in my bed.

Good Night!

If your a law abiding citizen, you have nothing to worry about. Hope you slept well. Simples.