Time limit for NIP - can I now relax?

[anonymous-user]

Friday 23rd July I was doing somewhere between 55 and 59 (reading on speedo vs GPS) in a 50 limit when I realised a scamera van could see me. Once I saw it I slowed so not sure of the speed when he would have zapped me.

Today is 17 days later and I have not received a NIP.

Can I now relax in the knowledge that, as it's well past 14 days, one is not coming?

[PintOfKittens]

Are you the registered keeper? Regged to you and not a company?

[TuxRacer]

So long as you've been checking the mail at the registered keeper's address, yes.

[SS2.]

If you are the RK and your details are correct on the V5C, then you should be able to relax (probably)..

If a NIP relating to the July incident does arrive outwith 14 days, make a note on the envelope and the NIP itself of the time and the date and, if possible, get this endorsed by an independent witness.

[blueg33]

Are you the registered keeper? If it is a company car or a lease car the 14 day rule may not apply.

[streaky]

One thing I can't recall us having discussed, is the possibility of misdelivery by the Royal Mail and what effect this would have should it be later delivered, say by hand, to the addressee. This sometimes happens to me, where my mail is delivered to a lesser numbered house or one with the same number in a road with a similar name (and v.v.).

The only independent witness to a delivery is likely to be the post person; and if you're not at home when the mail arrives, or you open the mail some time after delivery, when the post person has left the area ...

Streaky

[shakotan]

garyhun said:

Friday 23rd July I was doing somewhere between 55 and 59 (reading on speedo vs GPS) in a 50 limit when I realised a scamera van could see me. Once I saw it I slowed so not sure of the speed when he would have zapped me.

Today is 17 days later and I have not received a NIP.

Can I now relax in the knowledge that, as it's well past 14 days, one is not coming?

Depends, it only has to be sent so that it would arrive within 14 days, not actually received in that time period, to be classed as served.

So if it gets mis-routed or delayed, it still counts.

[SS2.]

shakotan said:

Depends, it only has to be sent so that it would arrive within 14 days, not actually received in that time period, to be classed as served.

So if it gets mis-routed or delayed, it still counts.

It has to be delivered within 14 days..

[SS2.]

streaky said:

One thing I can't recall us having discussed, is the possibility of misdelivery by the Royal Mail and what effect this would have should it be later delivered, say by hand, to the addressee. This sometimes happens to me, where my mail is delivered to a lesser numbered house or one with the same number in a road with a similar name (and v.v.).

If you were to give credible testimony to the court (and were able to demonstrate similar occurrences in the past, even if you were unable to provide concrete 'proof' in this instance), and if the court believed you, then the NIP should nonetheless be regarded as defective.

Edited by SS2. on Monday 9th August 16:49

[anonymous-user]

It's my car, I am the registered keeper, all documents are in my name at my current address so there is no "normal"reason for any docs not to reach me directly.

[anonymous-user]

streaky said:

One thing I can't recall us having discussed, is the possibility of misdelivery by the Royal Mail and what effect this would have should it be later delivered, say by hand, to the addressee. This sometimes happens to me, where my mail is delivered to a lesser numbered house or one with the same number in a road with a similar name (and v.v.).

The only independent witness to a delivery is likely to be the post person; and if you're not at home when the mail arrives, or you open the mail some time after delivery, when the post person has left the area ...

Streaky

Working form home I am always here to collect from the postman. Also I have NEVER had any post go astray and the postman knows who I am.

[maser_spyder]

garyhun said:

streaky said:

One thing I can't recall us having discussed, is the possibility of misdelivery by the Royal Mail and what effect this would have should it be later delivered, say by hand, to the addressee. This sometimes happens to me, where my mail is delivered to a lesser numbered house or one with the same number in a road with a similar name (and v.v.).

The only independent witness to a delivery is likely to be the post person; and if you're not at home when the mail arrives, or you open the mail some time after delivery, when the post person has left the area ...

Streaky

Working form home I am always here to collect from the postman. Also I have NEVER had any post go astray and the postman knows who I am.

In which case, I would tentatively;



and be more careful in future!

[Lonely]

I know I've only been on here a short while but there really is some poor advice handed out by 'pub lawyers' on a regular basis; non more so than with the ever present issues over NIP's. Unfortunately posters needing advice will not know who to believe and the legislation surrounding the matter is not entirely clear (as is usual).

This site is one the best I've come across for giving a full and honest explanation of the NIP system.

You're not really in the clear until the statute of limitations has expired, which in the case of speeding is 6 months or we mess up the initial issue!

[SS2.]

Lonely said:

Unfortunately posters needing advice will not know who to believe and the legislation surrounding the matter is not entirely clear (as is usual).

It is completely clear, IMO, and recent case law has reinforced the clarity.

Subject to certain statutory exceptions (none of which appeared to apply in the present case), the initial Notice of Intended Prosecution (or a summons) must be served upon the registered keeper of the vehicle within 14 days of an alleged offence.

And a NIP sent by first class post will be presumed to have been 'served' two business days after posting, unless and until the contrary is proven.

Conversely, a notice sent by a registered or recorded delivery service will be deemed as served, even if it is not delivered.

Lonely said:

This site is one the best I've come across for giving a full and honest explanation of the NIP system.

Some of the information on that site is incorrect..

For instance -

website said:

The Police do not have to prove that the Notice reached its intended recipient within 14 days, merely that in the normal course of events, it should have arrived.

Is not correct.

Posting the notice by first class mail creates a presumption of service which can be rebutted ie if it can be proven that the notice arrived outwith 14 days, then it will be deemed as being defective.

And a defective notice is a bar to conviction of any person to which the NIP applies.

Lonely said:

You're not really in the clear until the statute of limitations has expired, which in the case of speeding is 6 months or we mess up the initial issue!

If the police / SCP fail to satisfy the requirements of s.1 RTOA 1988, then prosecution of the alleged offence to which the NIP applies is likely to be doomed to failure.

Edited by SS2. on Monday 9th August 19:19

[SS2.]

website said:

If you are the registered keeper of the vehicle and the ISSUE date on the Notice of Intended Prosecution is more than 14 days after the offence, then you can reject it.

And this is misleading.

You can't 'reject' a NIP..

A NIP is a warning; it's an advisory and requires no action on the part of the recipient. It requires no response, acceptance or challenge.

Normally annexed to / combined with the NIP is a request for driver details pursuant to s.172 Road Traffic Act 1988. This DOES require action on the part of the recipient; indeed, an offence is committed if the request is ignored, or returned incomplete, unsigned*, without driver nominated, etc.

And even if the NIP is defective (through late service, for instance), then this does not automatically absolve the recipient of complying with a valid s.172 request and providing the details of the driver within 28 days of its receipt.

* - In England & Wales, certainly. In Scotland, maybe.

Edited by SS2. on Monday 9th August 19:30

[Pcot]

OP, i think its safe to say, you can now relax.

[Lonely]

SS2. said:

Conversely, a notice sent by a registered or recorded delivery service will be deemed as served, even if it is not delivered.

Can we be certain this hasn't happened and the NIP is lost?

Lonely said:

You're not really in the clear until the statute of limitations has expired, which in the case of speeding is 6 months or we mess up the initial issue!

SS2. said:

If the police / SCP fail to satisfy the requirements of s.1 RTOA 1988, then prosecution of the alleged offence to which the NIP applies is likely to be doomed to failure.

Exactly!

Case law only stands until it is challenged again and some other judges make a different decision just like appeal courts in the latest test cases for NIP's

[SS2.]

Lonely said:

SS2. said:

Conversely, a notice sent by a registered or recorded delivery service will be deemed as served, even if it is not delivered.

Can we be certain this hasn't happened and the NIP is lost?

And if it has, then it has failed to be served in accordance with s.1 RTOA 1988.

Lonely said:

You're not really in the clear until the statute of limitations has expired, which in the case of speeding is 6 months or we mess up the initial issue!

Does not need 'you' to mess it up.

The NIP may well be posted in sufficient time, but if it arrives later than 14 days after the alleged offence then case law provides that it should be regarded as defective.

Lonely said:

Case law only stands until it is challenged again and some other judges make a different decision just like appeal courts in the latest test cases for NIP's

Trying to predict how case law might stand in the future is pointless - we can only take as it stands today.

Edited by SS2. on Monday 9th August 20:50

[Lonely]

SS2. said:

Lonely said:

SS2. said:

Conversely, a notice sent by a registered or recorded delivery service will be deemed as served, even if it is not delivered.

Can we be certain this hasn't happened and the NIP is lost?

And if it has, then it has failed to be served in accordance with s.1 RTOA 1988.

You've well and truly lost me now. The two bits above appear to contradict each other

[vonhosen]

Lonely said:

SS2. said:

Lonely said:

SS2. said:

Conversely, a notice sent by a registered or recorded delivery service will be deemed as served, even if it is not delivered.

Can we be certain this hasn't happened and the NIP is lost?

And if it has, then it has failed to be served in accordance with s.1 RTOA 1988.

You've well and truly lost me now. The two bits above appear to contradict each other

Registered shouldn't be lost. It'll be signed for or returned, not lost.

Edited by vonhosen on Monday 9th August 21:23