Starting in accountancy - advice please
Discussion
Ok, I could google this but not sure I know enough yet to sort the gems from the rubbish, so....
Can anyone give me some pointers/advice towards retraining to be an accountant? (or maybe book-keeper, at least to start with)
I'll be 40 in a couple of months, and my profession up till now - pharmacist - is getting to be less and less fun. Coupled with a serious falling out about a load of stuff at work which means my notice is going in next week, I'm having a bit of a mid-life re-think.
My better half reckons I'd make a good accountant - the same things that make me a good pharmacist: pedantry and being massively anally retentive (if those aren't the same things anyway
), also good at learning and (sometimes creatively) applying rules, regs and systems. She might be right!
Anyhow, I'll probably be going self-employed (again) for now, so I could have the freedom/time to add another string to my bow.... I could even evenually mix and match work if I were to set-up as self-employed for both.
Thanks in advance for your help folks!
Can anyone give me some pointers/advice towards retraining to be an accountant? (or maybe book-keeper, at least to start with)
I'll be 40 in a couple of months, and my profession up till now - pharmacist - is getting to be less and less fun. Coupled with a serious falling out about a load of stuff at work which means my notice is going in next week, I'm having a bit of a mid-life re-think.
My better half reckons I'd make a good accountant - the same things that make me a good pharmacist: pedantry and being massively anally retentive (if those aren't the same things anyway
), also good at learning and (sometimes creatively) applying rules, regs and systems. She might be right!Anyhow, I'll probably be going self-employed (again) for now, so I could have the freedom/time to add another string to my bow.... I could even evenually mix and match work if I were to set-up as self-employed for both.
Thanks in advance for your help folks!
Best route is probably to train for the AAT qualification, then if you want to go further look at ACCA or CIMA. Doing AAT will give you a good starting point and reduce the number of exams you need to pass to qualify as ACCA/CIMA. You could miss out AAT and go straight for the professional qualification, but if you have no accountancy experience I'd recommend AAT first.
JBM78 said:
Best route is probably to train for the AAT qualification, then if you want to go further look at ACCA or CIMA. Doing AAT will give you a good starting point and reduce the number of exams you need to pass to qualify as ACCA/CIMA. You could miss out AAT and go straight for the professional qualification, but if you have no accountancy experience I'd recommend AAT first.
This is good advice. Sounds like you could breeze through AAT.
ClintonB said:
I'd agree with everyone else (and sounds like you do as well). A good grounding and also gives you chance to see if it's really for you without too much by way of effort/expense. While you might in theory have the right personality type for beanydom, it doesn't always follow.
Apart from being retentive you also need to be quite flexible because the knowledge required changes almost daily - especially if you work in ptractice.The two atributes are actually a little contradictory - which is why good accountants are rare.
It can be rewarding though and not just finacially.
Tell me about it, in practice in the last couple of years we have had a new Companies Act, new International Auditing Standards, new IFRSs, iXBRL looming, major changes to UK GAAP coming and those don't even touch changes to tax laws etc. Then you have to keep clients happy by giving them great service and knowing what they expect from you, you have to motivate your staff, keep up to date with technology, carry out effective marketing, make sure and attend courses for CPD requirements, manage your risk, make sure your audit opinions and audit files are sound, have ICAEW regulators review your files and process, negotiate and then collect fees from clients and somehow manage to have your own life...
Yesterday a 70'something year old chairman of a client told me I need to get out more....funny....
Seriously though, it is not boring and is enjoyable (or else I wouldn't be doing it).
Oh, it is also great to be able to mentor younger staff and see them develop during their time with you, both in the profession and in life.
Yesterday a 70'something year old chairman of a client told me I need to get out more....funny....
Seriously though, it is not boring and is enjoyable (or else I wouldn't be doing it).
Oh, it is also great to be able to mentor younger staff and see them develop during their time with you, both in the profession and in life.
Edited by cailean on Saturday 19th March 11:40
Sorry for Hijacking your thread but I'm currently in 2nd year of an Accountancy degree at university, however I would rather "learn on the job". Would it be better for me to work part time and go down the AAT route? I'm sure in 3/4 years I'd end up in the same place CIMA/ACCA? but be a lot less in student debt and earning along the way?
That depends...mainly on where you want to end up i.e. with an ACCA, CIMA or ACA. I don't know much about CIMA so won't try and guess. If you have your heart set on ACA then it is best to have a good degree as most of the larger firms will want degrees for entry, we require at least a 2:1. If you want to do ACCA (which is at a similar level to ACA) then you could start it with A levels and work in industry or a smaller firm. I will not go into the differences between the 3 qualifications now, partly as I am falling asleep, also there were a few threads over the last few months discussing that topic.
chickenkebab said:
Sorry for Hijacking your thread but I'm currently in 2nd year of an Accountancy degree at university, however I would rather "learn on the job". Would it be better for me to work part time and go down the AAT route? I'm sure in 3/4 years I'd end up in the same place CIMA/ACCA? but be a lot less in student debt and earning along the way?
Given the stage you're at, I'd say don't jack the degree. If you can get some part time work that is relevant (and chip away at the debt, which is frankly rather scary compared to what I walked out with) then great, go for it. Otherwise, stick at it (and get a mundane job, if required). While people have & probably still will get there without having a degree, this is becoming less & less prevalent. I can't comment on the practice side of things but on the industry side, there are very few people in middle ground & beyond who don't have degree plus letters of whichever accountancy flavour they wandered down the road of.You'll also get some decent exemptions, so probably won't save all that much time wise.
Jacking the degree is a very serious decision, so you need to think very hard about the long term implications. I understand why you might not since (for entirely different reasons) I didn't either.
chickenkebab said:
Sorry for Hijacking your thread but I'm currently in 2nd year of an Accountancy degree at university, however I would rather "learn on the job". Would it be better for me to work part time and go down the AAT route? I'm sure in 3/4 years I'd end up in the same place CIMA/ACCA? but be a lot less in student debt and earning along the way?
As others have said, finish your degree and do the full professional exams. It's highly likely you'll get some exemptions which will make things easier. You'll be qualified in three years after graduating.chickenkebab said:
Sorry for Hijacking your thread but I'm currently in 2nd year of an Accountancy degree at university, however I would rather "learn on the job". Would it be better for me to work part time and go down the AAT route? I'm sure in 3/4 years I'd end up in the same place CIMA/ACCA? but be a lot less in student debt and earning along the way?
Given you are in year 2 of your degree, you may as well finish it. From the view point of an employer, it's an event you'll have to explain and you don't want to give the impression that you couldn't be bothered or hack the work, because the professional exams from all the 3 main bodies are both time consuming and quite tough.However, don't expect your degree to be that relevant, many employers don't always want you to take exemptions and I was shocked to hear that some degrees don't even cover things as fundamental as double entry, which underpin the whole of the records system.
But I would stick with it, because having the degree will open many non-accountancy related doors as well should you fancy a change later or not enjoy actually working in industry or practice.
Sorry to resurect, but if you're still interested I'd recommend doing the AAT (I've done it) and then going on to the Chartered Quals.
Doing the AAT first will take you longer than going straight into chartered, but it gives you a good grounding in accountancy and the last year does overlap with the middle stages of the Charted so you'll find it easier in the long run (you'll be exempt from the foundation stages of all the major charted bodies - CIMA/ACCA/ACA).
You'll also have a tangible qualification to your belt whilst studying for the charted exams and can use it if you decide not to finish. The AAT has a good members in practice scheme, which means you could set up your own accountancy practice and work for yourself if you've gained the relevant experience. This is not something which is easy to achieve with ACCA or ACA as you have to work in one of their accredited practices for 3 years before they give you a practicing certificate (note you don't need this certificate if you are employed). A lot of ACCA and ACA's give up their membership and use the AAT instead when going this route. CIMA doesn't have such strict requirements.
Also, to me once the basics in accountancy are grasped you can do pretty much anything in the profession with experience and continued development, however if you miss out on the basics it's struggle to apply more complex theories (like some of my colleagues who come out of uni with an accountancy degree and are exempt from lots of exams but can't pass the ones they have to do). The AAT is a more practical qualification with exams - you'll need at least 1 years applicable work experience to gain membership and will also need to continue with compulsory CPD (waved if you are studying for chartered tho).
The AAT is well recongnised but on the downside is not as lucrative as the chartered qualifications as a rule of thumb, however saying that once you have it you'll be "part qualified" and should earn about the same as a part qualified CIMA/ACCA if you have the right experience (not that bad, probably looking at 30-35k in London in this day and age, +10k once fully qualified). But there are exceptions, experience matters a lot on accountancy (just as important as qualifications, if not more).
Which brings me on to my last point, getting into the profession can be difficult with no experience. It's not impossible but you may end up taking something that doesn't pay that well to start with (i think i had £15k, but that was 8 years ago!). Write to practices - this is where you're most likely to exposed to nuts and bolts accountancy. Alternatively try and find local bookkeepers or accountants that you can help out part time to build experience. Industry i.e. companies, you're more likely to start off on a sales ledger or purchase ledger function, which is quite focused to one specific area and not so good at helping you build the practical skills for the qualifications. However get into a decent company and you could progress with exams/exp to more senior positions where you'll get the experience you need.
Hope that's helpful, PM if you want any other info.
Cheers,
Matt
Doing the AAT first will take you longer than going straight into chartered, but it gives you a good grounding in accountancy and the last year does overlap with the middle stages of the Charted so you'll find it easier in the long run (you'll be exempt from the foundation stages of all the major charted bodies - CIMA/ACCA/ACA).
You'll also have a tangible qualification to your belt whilst studying for the charted exams and can use it if you decide not to finish. The AAT has a good members in practice scheme, which means you could set up your own accountancy practice and work for yourself if you've gained the relevant experience. This is not something which is easy to achieve with ACCA or ACA as you have to work in one of their accredited practices for 3 years before they give you a practicing certificate (note you don't need this certificate if you are employed). A lot of ACCA and ACA's give up their membership and use the AAT instead when going this route. CIMA doesn't have such strict requirements.
Also, to me once the basics in accountancy are grasped you can do pretty much anything in the profession with experience and continued development, however if you miss out on the basics it's struggle to apply more complex theories (like some of my colleagues who come out of uni with an accountancy degree and are exempt from lots of exams but can't pass the ones they have to do). The AAT is a more practical qualification with exams - you'll need at least 1 years applicable work experience to gain membership and will also need to continue with compulsory CPD (waved if you are studying for chartered tho).
The AAT is well recongnised but on the downside is not as lucrative as the chartered qualifications as a rule of thumb, however saying that once you have it you'll be "part qualified" and should earn about the same as a part qualified CIMA/ACCA if you have the right experience (not that bad, probably looking at 30-35k in London in this day and age, +10k once fully qualified). But there are exceptions, experience matters a lot on accountancy (just as important as qualifications, if not more).
Which brings me on to my last point, getting into the profession can be difficult with no experience. It's not impossible but you may end up taking something that doesn't pay that well to start with (i think i had £15k, but that was 8 years ago!). Write to practices - this is where you're most likely to exposed to nuts and bolts accountancy. Alternatively try and find local bookkeepers or accountants that you can help out part time to build experience. Industry i.e. companies, you're more likely to start off on a sales ledger or purchase ledger function, which is quite focused to one specific area and not so good at helping you build the practical skills for the qualifications. However get into a decent company and you could progress with exams/exp to more senior positions where you'll get the experience you need.
Hope that's helpful, PM if you want any other info.
Cheers,
Matt
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