XH558...

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Discussion

Alex Z

1,140 posts

77 months

Thursday 18th August 2022
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Seight_Returns said:
Does the Southend Vulcan live permanently outside ?

You can see it on Google Maps just by the flying clubs, just South of the runway midpoint - not sure if that's where it's permanently kept or just happened to be outside when the aerial photo was taken.
They have just agreed use of a hangar that they are fitting out, and then it’ll be back under cover.

Seight_Returns

1,640 posts

202 months

Thursday 18th August 2022
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ecsrobin said:
mcdjl said:
I'd join the shortest queue as I'm fairly sure they'd all look about the same inside.
This. To the average museum visitor the history of the airframe is irrelevant just seeing one is good enough.
Me too.

I finally got to climb into a Vulcan cockpit at the very tired B2 nose section at Bournemouth Aviation Museum.

I think I paid about a tenner for my daughter and I to spend a very pleasant couple of hours crawling around a selection of equally tired but adequately well preserved aircraft.

It was a great experience - but I don't feel inclined to spend orders of magnitude more for a 558 tour .

Tony1963

4,789 posts

163 months

Thursday 18th August 2022
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I think a few here would be surprised at how tired some aircraft look while they’re in service!
When I first had a look in a C-17’s cockpit in 2018 I chuckled. It looked worn out and in need of some TLC. But Joe Public doesn’t see that, just the presentable exterior.

LukeBrown66

4,479 posts

47 months

Thursday 18th August 2022
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It was an achievement yes, but they managed to put one bomb, just about onto the tarmac,! it probably cost a bloody fortune, was a logistical nightmare, were they not about 15 tankers involved, and the fuel to help them, it was pretty ridiculous if you ask me

It was a long time ago linked to a war with a withering Prime Minister who we would have been better off without! Certainly in most of the country.

But on here I would imagine IO am preaching to the converted!!

yellowjack

17,080 posts

167 months

Thursday 18th August 2022
quotequote all
LukeBrown66 said:
It was an achievement yes, but they managed to put one bomb, just about onto the tarmac,! it probably cost a bloody fortune, was a logistical nightmare, were they not about 15 tankers involved, and the fuel to help them, it was pretty ridiculous if you ask me

It was a long time ago linked to a war with a withering Prime Minister who we would have been better off without! Certainly in most of the country.

But on here I would imagine IO am preaching to the converted!!
Show of force. Demonstration of political will. Proof of logistical capability. It would have been nice to have got a few more bombs on juicier targets, but it didn't need to. It just needed to show the Argentinians that we could do it if required/desired, and they needn't know how difficult it was, nor how close it was to failure it all came. It came down to creating, or exaggerating, a threat to Fuerza Aérea Argentina operations from Stanley, thereby limiting said operations.

aeropilot

34,685 posts

228 months

Friday 19th August 2022
quotequote all
yellowjack said:
LukeBrown66 said:
It was an achievement yes, but they managed to put one bomb, just about onto the tarmac,! it probably cost a bloody fortune, was a logistical nightmare, were they not about 15 tankers involved, and the fuel to help them, it was pretty ridiculous if you ask me

It was a long time ago linked to a war with a withering Prime Minister who we would have been better off without! Certainly in most of the country.

But on here I would imagine IO am preaching to the converted!!
Show of force. Demonstration of political will. Proof of logistical capability. It would have been nice to have got a few more bombs on juicier targets, but it didn't need to. It just needed to show the Argentinians that we could do it if required/desired, and they needn't know how difficult it was, nor how close it was to failure it all came. It came down to creating, or exaggerating, a threat to Fuerza Aérea Argentina operations from Stanley, thereby limiting said operations.
And forced them to divert aircraft further north away from the FI to protect BA.

They only needed to get one bomb on the runway......that was the whole point, and why they did the run on the diagonal.

All this info has been freely available for decades.

The fact that you use the phrase 'withering Prime Minister who we could have done without' shows that you are not looking at it with any objectivity. And the alternative at the time doesn't bear thinking about as to what state the UK would have been in, given the mess that the 70's were.....but I guess you're too young to know what that was like.

Kitchski

6,516 posts

232 months

Friday 19th August 2022
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Tony1963 said:
If you could line up the surviving Vulcans on a dispersal at Scampton, which aircraft would have the longest queues for cockpit and bomb bay tours?

My guess would be the Black Buck tail numbers.
That's another hypothetical question that isn't really relevant, as it would never happen. I can only base my opinions on what has happened.

I'm also not saying that there is anything like the attraction for 558 that there was when it was in the air, I'm just saying that 558 is - for the reasons I outlined - the most significant Vulcan in existance.

Put it another way; You line up all the F1 cars from the 1993 season. The Williams FW15C is undoubtedly the star of the show, and the car that won everything. Would it have a bigger crowd around it? Or would everybody just be dispersed evenly around the entire grid so they could see more easily?

NM62

952 posts

151 months

Friday 19th August 2022
quotequote all
LukeBrown66 said:
It was an achievement yes, but they managed to put one bomb, just about onto the tarmac,! it probably cost a bloody fortune, was a logistical nightmare, were they not about 15 tankers involved, and the fuel to help them, it was pretty ridiculous if you ask me

It was a long time ago linked to a war with a withering Prime Minister who we would have been better off without! Certainly in most of the country.

But on here I would imagine IO am preaching to the converted!!
The withering prime Minister who was re elected in 1983 with landslide victory following the events down south, that Prime Minister?

RacingPete

8,884 posts

205 months

Friday 19th August 2022
quotequote all
Tony1963 said:
I think a few here would be surprised at how tired some aircraft look while they’re in service!
When I first had a look in a C-17’s cockpit in 2018 I chuckled. It looked worn out and in need of some TLC. But Joe Public doesn’t see that, just the presentable exterior.
I grew up at RAF Finingley as my dad was a squadron leader, house behind was Wither’s - not that I knew much at 8 years old. But I did get to sit in a lot of planes at airshows and the unique smell of an RAF cockpit and how worn they felt is an enduring memory. I would have to look up which Vulcan I was in, but spent a lot of time in one at either 1984 or 1986 air show there.

magpie215

4,407 posts

190 months

Friday 19th August 2022
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RacingPete said:
I would have to look up which Vulcan I was in, but spent a lot of time in one at either 1984 or 1986 air show there.
86 would have been 558 as the display aircraft.

Might have been another in the static park for visitors to chamber around.



Edited by magpie215 on Friday 19th August 09:52

LukeBrown66

4,479 posts

47 months

Friday 19th August 2022
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Wars always win elections, that is why she did it.

I come from an area decimated by that hag, so although I have some time for the people involved in the Falklands war and the local people there, it was relatively pointless as most recent wars have been and was largely an electoral campaign.

Quite why hundreds of millions were wasted on that and not on conflicts far more relevant I have never got. But hey I am not a war monger

ecsrobin

17,146 posts

166 months

Friday 19th August 2022
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Kitchski said:
I'm just saying that 558 is - for the reasons I outlined - the most significant Vulcan in existance.
You’re looking at this with your heart or your empty wallet but 558 is not the most significant Vulcan in existence and soon won’t exist in its current form.

5 In a Row

1,493 posts

228 months

Friday 19th August 2022
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Last time I was at Newark they had the Vulcan open but as there was a queue I went to see inside the Shackleton instead. Unfortunately when I went by the Vulcan later it was shut.
I can't remember without looking if there's anything significant about Newark's Vulcan but I'd be happy to see inside it.
To me the significance of these is what they were designed and built to do rather than what an individual airframe did, in some ways I'd be more wary about going inside one of significance in case I altered it in some way - the same as when you have shiny new wheels you're scared of kerbing them but once your wife has taken the gloss of them you can relax.

Anyway I was out with the tape measure last night and 558 will fit in my garden.
They could fly it up to Leuchars and then I reckon get it here by road so long as the wings come off, there aren't any low bridges on one of the routes.
I might have to get the electric cable that goes across the garden raised though.

Alternatively there's a visitor centre near me that acquired a Buccaneer last year (the one that used to be at a petrol station in Elgin) so maybe they'd take it? They could use the same route from Leuchars......

aeropilot

34,685 posts

228 months

Friday 19th August 2022
quotequote all
LukeBrown66 said:
I come from an area decimated by that hag, so although I have some time for the people involved in the Falklands war and the local people there, it was relatively pointless as most recent wars have been and was largely an electoral campaign.
Not really relevant to this thread then......probably best take yourself off to NPE.


aeropilot

34,685 posts

228 months

Friday 19th August 2022
quotequote all
magpie215 said:
RacingPete said:
I would have to look up which Vulcan I was in, but spent a lot of time in one at either 1984 or 1986 air show there.
86 would have been 558 as the display aircraft.

Might have been another in the static park for visitors to chamber around.
Would not have been '86 then, as you don't allow job public into display aircraft, as they are not parked in the static.

'84 would be possible, as the stop-gap tanker conversion Vulcan's were not finally withdrawn from service until March 31st 1984, and the handful left were handed over to the Waddo Station Flight and gradually flown off to museums etc in the next few months, so there would have been a servicable Vulcan in the static in '84 which would have been the last time.
It might have even been 607, which had only stopped flying a year earlier.


mcdjl

5,451 posts

196 months

Friday 19th August 2022
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Kitchski said:
That's another hypothetical question that isn't really relevant, as it would never happen. I can only base my opinions on what has happened.

I'm also not saying that there is anything like the attraction for 558 that there was when it was in the air, I'm just saying that 558 is - for the reasons I outlined - the most significant Vulcan in existance.

Put it another way; You line up all the F1 cars from the 1993 season. The Williams FW15C is undoubtedly the star of the show, and the car that won everything. Would it have a bigger crowd around it? Or would everybody just be dispersed evenly around the entire grid so they could see more easily?
558 is only significant for being the last Vulcan flying. Going for retired aircraft za463 was the last RAF tornado to fly. Does that make it more significant than any other?
A fairer F1 car comparison would be to get how ever many fw15c were built and line them up and see if the championship winning car (or the one that William run occasionally) has a longer queue than the others. Put it alongside modern machinery or a lotus 79 and you'd have people scattered across the lot with the digital media stars heading for lewis' car.

Kitchski

6,516 posts

232 months

Friday 19th August 2022
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ecsrobin said:
Kitchski said:
I'm just saying that 558 is - for the reasons I outlined - the most significant Vulcan in existance.
You’re looking at this with your heart or your empty wallet but 558 is not the most significant Vulcan in existence and soon won’t exist in its current form.
So you're saying if you pulled every Tom, Dick & Harry in off the street and asked them if, firstly, they were familiar with the Vulcan as an aircraft, and secondly if they could name one, or recount the tail number from one, that XH558 wouldn't be the most common answer?

Seight_Returns

1,640 posts

202 months

Friday 19th August 2022
quotequote all
Kitchski said:
So you're saying if you pulled every Tom, Dick & Harry in off the street and asked them if, firstly, they were familiar with the Vulcan as an aircraft, and secondly if they could name one, or recount the tail number from one, that XH558 wouldn't be the most common answer?
But if you then spoke to said Tom, Dick or Harriet for a further few minutes about the history of the 19 remaining Vulcans - which one do you think s/he would then conclude was the most historically significant - the one that made the (then) longest bombing raid in history - or the one that they remember making a lot of people on the beach at Bournemouth look up and point ?


Edited by Seight_Returns on Friday 19th August 15:47

aeropilot

34,685 posts

228 months

Friday 19th August 2022
quotequote all
Kitchski said:
ecsrobin said:
Kitchski said:
I'm just saying that 558 is - for the reasons I outlined - the most significant Vulcan in existance.
You’re looking at this with your heart or your empty wallet but 558 is not the most significant Vulcan in existence and soon won’t exist in its current form.
So you're saying if you pulled every Tom, Dick & Harry in off the street and asked them if, firstly, they were familiar with the Vulcan as an aircraft, and secondly if they could name one, or recount the tail number from one, that XH558 wouldn't be the most common answer?
Of course it would because it was the last one flying, just as Sea Vixen XP924 was the very last Sea Vixen flying until its wheels up landing, and now that is just another dead museum piece. Other than that, its no more significant than any other Sea Vixen still extant, and perhaps less so, as like '558, it's not in any way representative of an in-service example, due to its mods over the years for post service flying. Which is why they are struggling to find a home for it, and sadly that too may get scrapped/broken up.


andburg

7,296 posts

170 months

Friday 19th August 2022
quotequote all
Kitchski said:
ecsrobin said:
Kitchski said:
I'm just saying that 558 is - for the reasons I outlined - the most significant Vulcan in existance.
You’re looking at this with your heart or your empty wallet but 558 is not the most significant Vulcan in existence and soon won’t exist in its current form.
So you're saying if you pulled every Tom, Dick & Harry in off the street and asked them if, firstly, they were familiar with the Vulcan as an aircraft, and secondly if they could name one, or recount the tail number from one, that XH558 wouldn't be the most common answer?
If you polled 1000 people I doubt anybody would actually know a tail number