80 in a 70 - Pointless question

80 in a 70 - Pointless question

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LotsOfLaughs

Original Poster:

188 posts

17 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
Just had an NIP for 80 in a 70 an a particularly sneaky bit of the A55, average speed camera zone.
Looks like the printer wasnt having the best day when printing my NIP, Im presuming not, but just in case, can this be grounds for ignoring the letter? Its still easilly legible but still certainly defective.

Also something that Im sure has been covered before - I noticed it says that you MUST tell them who was driving. Does this mean we dont have the right to remain silent?

Thanks

Mr Pointy

11,341 posts

161 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
LotsOfLaughs said:
Just had an NIP for 80 in a 70 an a particularly sneaky bit of the A55, average speed camera zone.
Looks like the printer wasnt having the best day when printing my NIP, Im presuming not, but just in case, can this be grounds for ignoring the letter? Its still easilly legible but still certainly defective.

Also something that Im sure has been covered before - I noticed it says that you MUST tell them who was driving. Does this mean we dont have the right to remain silent?
Yep you're fine, if it hasn't printed properly just ignore it.

Nothing bad will happen.

ingenieur

4,097 posts

183 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
Well technically it hasn't been served.

Not sure whether or not you should tell them. But if you were to tell them the ideal time to do it would be within your response window so it doesn't escalate but not leaving enough time for them to reissue it.

This way it does not escalate as the escalation will mean you'll have to do it through court whereas if you tell them and they can't reissue it within the time allowed then the whole thing is invalidated and you don't have to bother with the court bit.

DickyC

50,000 posts

200 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
Mr Pointy said:
Yep you're fine, if it hasn't printed properly just ignore it.

Nothing bad will happen.
But he will be able to sue for pain and suffering caused by the uncertainty.

LotsOfLaughs

Original Poster:

188 posts

17 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
ingenieur said:
Well technically it hasn't been served.

Not sure whether or not you should tell them. But if you were to tell them the ideal time to do it would be within your response window so it doesn't escalate but not leaving enough time for them to reissue it.

This way it does not escalate as the escalation will mean you'll have to do it through court whereas if you tell them and they can't reissue it within the time allowed then the whole thing is invalidated and you don't have to bother with the court bit.
Well yeah exactly, it arrived today. Im either posting it tomorrow or not at all, 80 in a 70 will just be a SAC - Is there a £100 fine too if I get a SAC?
But yeah, for arguments sake really, if the NIP is deffective but not illegible is it still valid? If not, do I HAVE to tell someone that its deffective so that they send me another?

Super Sonic

5,188 posts

56 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
LotsOfLaughs said:
Well yeah exactly, it arrived today. Im either posting it tomorrow or not at all, 80 in a 70 will just be a SAC - Is there a £100 fine too if I get a SAC?
But yeah, for arguments sake really, if the NIP is deffective but not illegible is it still valid? If not, do I HAVE to tell someone that its deffective so that they send me another?
If you get a sac there's no fine, but there's a £100 fee.
You do not have to inform your insurance.

LotsOfLaughs

Original Poster:

188 posts

17 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
Super Sonic said:
If you get a sac there's no fine, but there's a £100 fee.
You do not have to inform your insurance.
Alright, thanks. I guess Ill just fill it in and post it.

semisane

861 posts

84 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
LotsOfLaughs said:
Just had an NIP for 80 in a 70 an a particularly sneaky bit of the A55, average speed camera zone.
Looks like the printer wasnt having the best day when printing my NIP, Im presuming not, but just in case, can this be grounds for ignoring the letter? Its still easilly legible but still certainly defective.

Also something that Im sure has been covered before - I noticed it says that you MUST tell them who was driving. Does this mean we dont have the right to remain silent?

Thanks
If you ignore they will not know its is potentially a 'defective' notice and their processes will continue.

Yes you have the 'right' to remain silent, but I suspect you will end up in court.

I would recommend you engage with the process.

ingenieur

4,097 posts

183 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
LotsOfLaughs said:
Super Sonic said:
If you get a sac there's no fine, but there's a £100 fee.
You do not have to inform your insurance.
Alright, thanks. I guess Ill just fill it in and post it.
Usually the best thing if your license and insurance premiums aren't under threat. But you do use up a chance and the next time it'll be points and fine if you've not learnt to go slower near the cameras.

Sebring440

2,066 posts

98 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
ingenieur said:
Well technically it hasn't been served.
In what way has it "not been served" if "Its still easilly legible"?

Super Sonic

5,188 posts

56 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
ingenieur said:
Usually the best thing if your license and insurance premiums aren't under threat. But you do use up a chance and the next time it'll be points and fine if you've not learnt to go slower near the cameras.
Will not affect insurance premiums.
Will not put points on license.

NFT

1,324 posts

24 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
With it being defective, ensure you also reply after the 14 days period, adding date you received it to be after the 14 days, just to build the wall up with a hint of potential rebuttal on both grounds.

Also, is it defective because it must have been like that when posted?

This would be as opposed to ink washed by Postie dropping in puddle before delivering it????

DaveTheRave87

2,111 posts

91 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
LotsOfLaughs said:
Also something that Im sure has been covered before - I noticed it says that you MUST tell them who was driving. Does this mean we dont have the right to remain silent?

Thanks
The right to remain silent kicks in once the driver has been identified and accused of an offence.

At present, all you've been sent is a letter saying that your car has been seen being driven over the speed limit and asking if you could identify the driver so that they can be charged (and given the right to remain silent) for the offence.

NFT

1,324 posts

24 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
DaveTheRave87 said:
LotsOfLaughs said:
Also something that Im sure has been covered before - I noticed it says that you MUST tell them who was driving. Does this mean we dont have the right to remain silent?

Thanks
The right to remain silent kicks in once the driver has been identified and accused of an offence.

At present, all you've been sent is a letter saying that your car has been seen being driven over the speed limit and asking if you could identify the driver so that they can be charged (and given the right to remain silent) for the offence.
The letter being under 172 designed to smash your kneecaps for ignoring it though, with an almost certain conviction for remaining silent so it's not just a random ignorable letter.

And it essentially says a car appearing to display your registration, these days they don't even know if the car is the one it should be and commonly fail to even have drivers face, let alone who driver is, fishing at it's finest IMO.

LotsOfLaughs

Original Poster:

188 posts

17 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
DaveTheRave87 said:
The right to remain silent kicks in once the driver has been identified and accused of an offence.

At present, all you've been sent is a letter saying that your car has been seen being driven over the speed limit and asking if you could identify the driver so that they can be charged (and given the right to remain silent) for the offence.
Okay, so it sounds like you legally MUST assist the police with their enquery, you dont have the option to remain silent. (I.e. the act of remaining silent is an offence in its self)

LotsOfLaughs

Original Poster:

188 posts

17 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
NFT said:
With it being defective, ensure you also reply after the 14 days period, adding date you received it to be after the 14 days, just to build the wall up with a hint of potential rebuttal on both grounds.

Also, is it defective because it must have been like that when posted?

This would be as opposed to ink washed by Postie dropping in puddle before delivering it????
No, its definetely defective in the manner of a printer running low on ink, or the page being forced out of the machine too quickly. Not been dropped in a puddle or eaten by snails.

Super Sonic

5,188 posts

56 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
I'm assuming this is your first nip and you didn't get one for the trailer thing.

Gary C

12,585 posts

181 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
LotsOfLaughs said:
NFT said:
With it being defective, ensure you also reply after the 14 days period, adding date you received it to be after the 14 days, just to build the wall up with a hint of potential rebuttal on both grounds.

Also, is it defective because it must have been like that when posted?

This would be as opposed to ink washed by Postie dropping in puddle before delivering it????
No, its definetely defective in the manner of a printer running low on ink, or the page being forced out of the machine too quickly. Not been dropped in a puddle or eaten by snails.
Just send it back now and say you cant read it. They will either send another or won't

Worth a punt.

SS2.

14,485 posts

240 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
LotsOfLaughs said:
Just had an NIP for 80 in a 70 an a particularly sneaky bit of the A55, average speed camera zone.
It would appear the alleged offence has been described clearly and you have not been confused or prejudiced by the warning. That would suggest it is not defective.

LotsOfLaughs said:
Also something that Im sure has been covered before - I noticed it says that you MUST tell them who was driving. Does this mean we dont have the right to remain silent?
It has been covered before - by the ECHR - where it was decided you do not have the right to silence when it comes to s.172 requests.

Worth noting that if you fail to respond to a valid s.172 request, you could find yourself on the worng end of 6 points, a hefty fine and ramped insurance premiums for the next 5 years.

Edited by SS2. on Thursday 9th November 15:33

Super Sonic

5,188 posts

56 months

Thursday 9th November 2023
quotequote all
Bear in mind the police are not obliged to offer a sac. If they think you are taking the piss they may go straight to fine/points.