Parking Eye @McDonald's (Equality Act?)
Discussion
Bit of a convoluted backstory (mother in hospital coming out for an afternoon to see family for birthday etc), but basically myself and my sister have just received 'reminder' PCNs from Parking Eye. It's the first we've both heard of the matter.
We visited a particular (relatively quiet) McDonald's as a party of 14 earlier this month, for one of the younger family members' birthday meet up. We chose the location simply because it's child/disabled friendly (they have a lift), and it's adjacent to the hospital where Mum was an inpatient. She couldn't travel far but the doctor said she'd be OK to nip out for an hour or two if it was local. So, McDonald's it was.
It was dark, driving with rain (pardon the pun) and we saw no signage on arrival. We parked in a disabled bay using our blue badges, and spent a total of 2.5 hours there (explained later on). Our party spent well over £200 in two stages - mains and desserts, such as they were. Service was slow, they were very busy and we ordered to the table using their app (due to disabilities etc). At no point did anyone tell us we'd stayed too long or spent too much, and would incur charges if we didn't leave. They just kept on smiling and bringing food.
We received 'reminder' PCNs today saying we have until 14 days from the date of the notice to pay the reduced amount, or else £100. The date the discount elapses is today - the date the first and only letter, a 'reminder', arrived. That's the case for both 'reminder' PCNs. The PCN 'reminders' themselves have photos of the cars with a place, a date and times. There is, however, no reason for any alleged contravention and nothing except a demand for payment. My own car is Motability, but my sister's is privately owned. I can understand Motability may have received the original PCN for my car, but not in my sister's case.
McDonald's head office is closed for the weekend, so I sent an off-the-cuff DM on Twitter explaining the disability issues, the fact we'd seen no signage, we were blue badge users etc, and I enclosed receipts for the visit. I got a scripted reply saying not their problem, they can't cancel tickets so speak to Parking Eye.
Aside from any issues with their notices' compliance etc (which I often see cited on here), surely there's an Equality Act angle? As disabled customers we genuinely needed the 2.5 hours to finish eating. I personally have a muscle disease and dysphagia (I can't swallow properly, and it takes me forever to eat and I need to drink between every small mouthful), plus the kids are diagnosed Autistic and take a lot longer than your average bear to focus and eat, and so on. I feel like we literally spent £200 on food then received additional £200 in invoices because our disabilities caused us to stay half an hour longer than allowed. [Edit: This is an assumption based on the 2.5 hour stay - as I said, the PCN has no contravention listed, just a demand for payment.]
Surely McDonald's have to make reasonable adjustments, and if they're happy to take our money for food they shouldn't then penalise us for taking longer to eat it for reasons we can't control? I wonder how to approach the 'appeal' from the drivers to Parking Eye with that in mind. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
We visited a particular (relatively quiet) McDonald's as a party of 14 earlier this month, for one of the younger family members' birthday meet up. We chose the location simply because it's child/disabled friendly (they have a lift), and it's adjacent to the hospital where Mum was an inpatient. She couldn't travel far but the doctor said she'd be OK to nip out for an hour or two if it was local. So, McDonald's it was.
It was dark, driving with rain (pardon the pun) and we saw no signage on arrival. We parked in a disabled bay using our blue badges, and spent a total of 2.5 hours there (explained later on). Our party spent well over £200 in two stages - mains and desserts, such as they were. Service was slow, they were very busy and we ordered to the table using their app (due to disabilities etc). At no point did anyone tell us we'd stayed too long or spent too much, and would incur charges if we didn't leave. They just kept on smiling and bringing food.
We received 'reminder' PCNs today saying we have until 14 days from the date of the notice to pay the reduced amount, or else £100. The date the discount elapses is today - the date the first and only letter, a 'reminder', arrived. That's the case for both 'reminder' PCNs. The PCN 'reminders' themselves have photos of the cars with a place, a date and times. There is, however, no reason for any alleged contravention and nothing except a demand for payment. My own car is Motability, but my sister's is privately owned. I can understand Motability may have received the original PCN for my car, but not in my sister's case.
McDonald's head office is closed for the weekend, so I sent an off-the-cuff DM on Twitter explaining the disability issues, the fact we'd seen no signage, we were blue badge users etc, and I enclosed receipts for the visit. I got a scripted reply saying not their problem, they can't cancel tickets so speak to Parking Eye.
Aside from any issues with their notices' compliance etc (which I often see cited on here), surely there's an Equality Act angle? As disabled customers we genuinely needed the 2.5 hours to finish eating. I personally have a muscle disease and dysphagia (I can't swallow properly, and it takes me forever to eat and I need to drink between every small mouthful), plus the kids are diagnosed Autistic and take a lot longer than your average bear to focus and eat, and so on. I feel like we literally spent £200 on food then received additional £200 in invoices because our disabilities caused us to stay half an hour longer than allowed. [Edit: This is an assumption based on the 2.5 hour stay - as I said, the PCN has no contravention listed, just a demand for payment.]
Surely McDonald's have to make reasonable adjustments, and if they're happy to take our money for food they shouldn't then penalise us for taking longer to eat it for reasons we can't control? I wonder how to approach the 'appeal' from the drivers to Parking Eye with that in mind. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
Edited by rainmakerraw on Saturday 18th November 15:20
Forget the blue badge - its a private car park with a private company making the rules. Many privately owned car parks make no allowance for blue badges and you have to pay / comply with their rules (my mother in law has a blue badge and we regularly take her out and always check car parks.
I would suggest the first thing you need to redo is revisit the car park, and see what terms and conditions are displayed and also where the signs are displayed.
Many McDonalds are actually operated under a franchise system so the car park may not even by owned or controlled by McDonalds themselves - check with the manager rather than waiting for a response from head office
I would suggest the first thing you need to redo is revisit the car park, and see what terms and conditions are displayed and also where the signs are displayed.
Many McDonalds are actually operated under a franchise system so the car park may not even by owned or controlled by McDonalds themselves - check with the manager rather than waiting for a response from head office
edthefed said:
Forget the blue badge - its a private car park with a private company making the rules. Many privately owned car parks make no allowance for blue badges and you have to pay / comply with their rules (my mother in law has a blue badge and we regularly take her out and always check car parks.
I would suggest the first thing you need to redo is revisit the car park, and see what terms and conditions are displayed and also where the signs are displayed.
Many McDonalds are actually operated under a franchise system so the car park may not even by owned or controlled by McDonalds themselves - check with the manager rather than waiting for a response from head office
Yes I was aware about the (lack of) standing of blue badges on private land. I mention it more in vein of demonstrating the party had genuine disabilities and 'overstayed' for reasons purely related to disability. The branch is an hour away, but I'll pop in this weekend as and when I get a chance. I would suggest the first thing you need to redo is revisit the car park, and see what terms and conditions are displayed and also where the signs are displayed.
Many McDonalds are actually operated under a franchise system so the car park may not even by owned or controlled by McDonalds themselves - check with the manager rather than waiting for a response from head office
Wackywoo105 said:
A family member parked in an NCP and forgot to pay. As the car is in my name I received the invoice. I sent them one letter and they dropped it and went away.
The question is have you told them who was driving the car?
Absolutely not. The registered keeper contacted McDonald's this morning and 'the drivers' will be corresponding with PE as required. The question is have you told them who was driving the car?
McDonald's have replied again on Twitter:
McDonald's said:
I regret that when a parking contravention has occurred, we are unable to deal with any specifics or cases on an individual basis. As mentioned, if a customer contravenes the clearly displayed parking regulations, they will receive a ticket.
I have once again reviewed all the information produced, but whilst I do appreciate your further comments, our position on this matter has not changed. I can therefore only refer you back to our previous email.
If you have not already appealed to the parking company, this would be an advisable step to take first. As a further action after this point, POPLA are an independent body who rule on such matters. They can be contacted via http://popla.co.uk (http://popla.co.uk)
Thank you for contacting us again and I am sorry that we can be of no further assistance on this matter.
I have once again reviewed all the information produced, but whilst I do appreciate your further comments, our position on this matter has not changed. I can therefore only refer you back to our previous email.
If you have not already appealed to the parking company, this would be an advisable step to take first. As a further action after this point, POPLA are an independent body who rule on such matters. They can be contacted via http://popla.co.uk (http://popla.co.uk)
Thank you for contacting us again and I am sorry that we can be of no further assistance on this matter.
I’ve found Parking Eye quite reasonable after getting two parking fines for overstaying the 1hr limit in an Asda car park on two separate occasions.
When going to their website to pay the fine there is an option to appeal, which I did and uploaded screenshots of my bank statement showing bank card purchase transactions proving I had been there as an Asda customer. They dropped both fines.
To be honest I hadn’t noticed their signs which afterwards I noticed were clearly visible in the car park. I was guilty of overstaying but they dropped it regardless.
When going to their website to pay the fine there is an option to appeal, which I did and uploaded screenshots of my bank statement showing bank card purchase transactions proving I had been there as an Asda customer. They dropped both fines.
To be honest I hadn’t noticed their signs which afterwards I noticed were clearly visible in the car park. I was guilty of overstaying but they dropped it regardless.
The Gauge said:
I’ve found Parking Eye quite reasonable after getting two parking fines for overstaying the 1hr limit in an Asda car park on two separate occasions.
When going to their website to pay the fine there is an option to appeal, which I did and uploaded screenshots of my bank statement showing bank card purchase transactions proving I had been there as an Asda customer. They dropped both fines.
To be honest I hadn’t noticed their signs which afterwards I noticed were clearly visible in the car park. I was guilty of overstaying but they dropped it regardless.
That sounds hopeful. I'll see what the branch manager says, and if all else fails I'll submit an appeal vis a vis 'the driver' being a genuine customer with disabilities. I think I'll drop a 'further or in the alternative' regarding the Equality Act. I'd suggest it was a reasonable adjustment to extend parking times for someone who is less able than the average person to whom the contract term applies. When going to their website to pay the fine there is an option to appeal, which I did and uploaded screenshots of my bank statement showing bank card purchase transactions proving I had been there as an Asda customer. They dropped both fines.
To be honest I hadn’t noticed their signs which afterwards I noticed were clearly visible in the car park. I was guilty of overstaying but they dropped it regardless.
rainmakerraw said:
Absolutely not. The registered keeper contacted McDonald's this morning and 'the drivers' will be corresponding with PE as required.
Do not let the drivers correspond with them. Everything should be done as keeper, not driver, just in case they decide to play silly buggers. You can't just say "I wasn't the driver" and have it go away - that changed over 10 years ago now.McDonald's response is a bit scummy. They - or someone using their name under a franchise agreement - hired the parking management company, they absolutely can do something about it.
spikyone said:
Do not let the drivers correspond with them. Everything should be done as keeper, not driver, just in case they decide to play silly buggers. You can't just say "I wasn't the driver" and have it go away - that changed over 10 years ago now.
McDonald's response is a bit scummy. They - or someone using their name under a franchise agreement - hired the parking management company, they absolutely can do something about it.
Quite. I thought they'd have been wanting to bend over to help, all things considered. I didn't just throw my taxi into their car park and walk over to the match, or some-such. We're genuine customers who spent a not inconsiderable sum of money (especially for a fast food dive!). It's been some time since I dealt with anything like this, probably almost 20 years. I don't make a habit of collecting tickets, and with the blue badge I've seldom needed to consider parking restrictions (above the terms of the badge) anyway. Everything will be done as keeper, then. Thanks for catching that! McDonald's response is a bit scummy. They - or someone using their name under a franchise agreement - hired the parking management company, they absolutely can do something about it.
Did you contact the branch itself?
We've had the "nothing to do with us, guv" thing a couple of times from other retailers, blaming the landlord for the parking enforcement. But they were able to get the tickets cancelled.
I suppose McDonalds head office gets large numbers of these appeals so as a matter of course pulls down the shutters.
We've had the "nothing to do with us, guv" thing a couple of times from other retailers, blaming the landlord for the parking enforcement. But they were able to get the tickets cancelled.
I suppose McDonalds head office gets large numbers of these appeals so as a matter of course pulls down the shutters.
If they don't know who the driver was you need to check that all the procedural steps from Schedule 4 of the POFA have been followed. If not they cannot got after the registered keeper and you do not have to name the driver.
I received a parking eye fine for the Adelphi car park in Liverpool, even though I had paid to park and given my reg. I sent them the receipt and they still pursued it. I had the get the Adelphi to quash it.
I received a parking eye fine for the Adelphi car park in Liverpool, even though I had paid to park and given my reg. I sent them the receipt and they still pursued it. I had the get the Adelphi to quash it.
Definitely try the manager of the actual branch first as it may save you a lot of bother. They will have a way of getting vehicles exemptions from the parking rules for things like staff, repair people, corporate visitors etc
As others have said, it's most likely a franchise so very little to do with MD head office.
As others have said, it's most likely a franchise so very little to do with MD head office.
Without wanting to sound like a nob 
let's stick to the facts of the matter :
1. pretty much every car park area has some rules/restrictions on use/time limits etc and there are usually signs all over the place detailing this.
2. you chose to ignore the signs because it was raining and you didn't want to get wet, foolishly believing that your vast array of combined disabilities would automatically exempt you from any such rules.
3. you overstayed the permitted time limit, presumably as detailed on the signage dotted around the car park. The reasons for how and why this happened do not matter and are irrelevant, as is how much you spent on/in the premises.
4. Parking co. have likely copped you by ANPR and have you bang to rights, ie. you broke the terms of the contract which is nobody's fault except your own.
5. You now owe them £100 and needs paying ASAP before a court summons arrives.
let's stick to the facts of the matter :1. pretty much every car park area has some rules/restrictions on use/time limits etc and there are usually signs all over the place detailing this.
2. you chose to ignore the signs because it was raining and you didn't want to get wet, foolishly believing that your vast array of combined disabilities would automatically exempt you from any such rules.
3. you overstayed the permitted time limit, presumably as detailed on the signage dotted around the car park. The reasons for how and why this happened do not matter and are irrelevant, as is how much you spent on/in the premises.
4. Parking co. have likely copped you by ANPR and have you bang to rights, ie. you broke the terms of the contract which is nobody's fault except your own.
5. You now owe them £100 and needs paying ASAP before a court summons arrives.
r3g said:
Without wanting to sound like a nob let's stick to the facts of the matter :
1. pretty much every car park area has some rules/restrictions on use/time limits etc and there are usually signs all over the place detailing this.
2. you chose to ignore the signs because it was raining and you didn't want to get wet, foolishly believing that your vast array of combined disabilities would automatically exempt you from any such rules.
3. you overstayed the permitted time limit, presumably as detailed on the signage dotted around the car park. The reasons for how and why this happened do not matter and are irrelevant, as is how much you spent on/in the premises.
4. Parking co. have likely copped you by ANPR and have you bang to rights, ie. you broke the terms of the contract which is nobody's fault except your own.
5. You now owe them £100 and needs paying ASAP before a court summons arrives.
The 'vast array of combined disabilities' and reason for the overstay isn't irrelevant though, is it? The overstay was by caused by said disabilities, and brings the Equality Act into play. As for signage, we didn't see any - this McDonald's is at the arse end of a derelict retail park with very poor lighting. No doubt there's a sign up on a lamp post somewhere, or on the side wall, but we didn't see any by where we parked. Even if we did (and assuredly we didn't), the reason for overstay is perfectly pertinent and it's a free car park anyway - so no 'losses' to argue either. let's stick to the facts of the matter :1. pretty much every car park area has some rules/restrictions on use/time limits etc and there are usually signs all over the place detailing this.
2. you chose to ignore the signs because it was raining and you didn't want to get wet, foolishly believing that your vast array of combined disabilities would automatically exempt you from any such rules.
3. you overstayed the permitted time limit, presumably as detailed on the signage dotted around the car park. The reasons for how and why this happened do not matter and are irrelevant, as is how much you spent on/in the premises.
4. Parking co. have likely copped you by ANPR and have you bang to rights, ie. you broke the terms of the contract which is nobody's fault except your own.
5. You now owe them £100 and needs paying ASAP before a court summons arrives.
rainmakerraw said:
r3g said:
Without wanting to sound like a nob let's stick to the facts of the matter :
1. pretty much every car park area has some rules/restrictions on use/time limits etc and there are usually signs all over the place detailing this.
2. you chose to ignore the signs because it was raining and you didn't want to get wet, foolishly believing that your vast array of combined disabilities would automatically exempt you from any such rules.
3. you overstayed the permitted time limit, presumably as detailed on the signage dotted around the car park. The reasons for how and why this happened do not matter and are irrelevant, as is how much you spent on/in the premises.
4. Parking co. have likely copped you by ANPR and have you bang to rights, ie. you broke the terms of the contract which is nobody's fault except your own.
5. You now owe them £100 and needs paying ASAP before a court summons arrives.
The 'vast array of combined disabilities' and reason for the overstay isn't irrelevant though, is it? The overstay was by caused by said disabilities, and brings the Equality Act into play. As for signage, we didn't see any - this McDonald's is at the arse end of a derelict retail park with very poor lighting. No doubt there's a sign up on a lamp post somewhere, or on the side wall, but we didn't see any by where we parked. Even if we did (and assuredly we didn't), the reason for overstay is perfectly pertinent and it's a free car park anyway - so no 'losses' to argue either. let's stick to the facts of the matter :1. pretty much every car park area has some rules/restrictions on use/time limits etc and there are usually signs all over the place detailing this.
2. you chose to ignore the signs because it was raining and you didn't want to get wet, foolishly believing that your vast array of combined disabilities would automatically exempt you from any such rules.
3. you overstayed the permitted time limit, presumably as detailed on the signage dotted around the car park. The reasons for how and why this happened do not matter and are irrelevant, as is how much you spent on/in the premises.
4. Parking co. have likely copped you by ANPR and have you bang to rights, ie. you broke the terms of the contract which is nobody's fault except your own.
5. You now owe them £100 and needs paying ASAP before a court summons arrives.
It's your responsibility to check for signage/restrictions/time limits when you park your vehicle. By your own admission you didn't pay much (if any) attention to this because it was raining.
Your combined disabilities and talk of Equality Acts has no bearing or relevance in your plight. You entered into a contract by parking your vehicle on their land then proceeded to break the contract by ignoring the terms and conditions set out.
Had you seen the signs and read the time limit, would you have continued to dine there and exceed the time limit?
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