Backwards scameras
Discussion
More and more I've started seeing scameras that look like they've been installed backwards, so that the painted lines are the wrong side of lens.
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The best theory I can come up with is that they've switched the cameras from Gatsos to TruVelos, except the lines all look freshly painted. This is the case for three or four sets of cameras I've seen now in the Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire area, just wondering if there was explanation behind the thinking?
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The best theory I can come up with is that they've switched the cameras from Gatsos to TruVelos, except the lines all look freshly painted. This is the case for three or four sets of cameras I've seen now in the Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire area, just wondering if there was explanation behind the thinking?
It is possible they are going to or already have switched to Truvelo or similar camera, which can be used in approaching or receding mode just by turning the housing around. However in your top diagram there is likely to be markings on the other side of the road because it is pointless having lines outside of the camera's field of view.
Truvelo's are easy to spot - they are usually blue and have round lenses in the centre of the housing and are the same height as a Gatso.
Gareth
>> Edited by g_attrill on Monday 2nd January 01:14
Truvelo's are easy to spot - they are usually blue and have round lenses in the centre of the housing and are the same height as a Gatso.
Gareth
>> Edited by g_attrill on Monday 2nd January 01:14
I know what you mean.
The ones I have seen is where they put the lines on both sides of the road. Sometimes it is so they can rotate the camera and use it in both directions. A lot of the time though the positioning of the lines is such where it could not be used anyway so can only be there to fool people into thinking the camera works both ways.
The ones I have seen is where they put the lines on both sides of the road. Sometimes it is so they can rotate the camera and use it in both directions. A lot of the time though the positioning of the lines is such where it could not be used anyway so can only be there to fool people into thinking the camera works both ways.
justinp1 said:
I know what you mean.
The ones I have seen is where they put the lines on both sides of the road. Sometimes it is so they can rotate the camera and use it in both directions. A lot of the time though the positioning of the lines is such where it could not be used anyway so can only be there to fool people into thinking the camera works both ways.
There are a few local to me (Derbyshire run afaik) which are Truvelo (Yellow housings) and were installed with sensors in the road both sides of the camera posiiton. There are in fact 3 cameras in about 200yds - 2 on one siode of the road and one on the other - at the location I have in mind but all ten that were installed in that period seem to have been set up the same way.
I don't recall ever having seen them set up to target from behind but I don't drive the road every day. I have only once spotted what looks like something positioned behind the glass.
On approach to the camera position there are the simple Truvelo markings, one side of the road only, just after the sensors. Leaving the position there are Gatso like markings past the sensor position. In one case these coincide with a right filter lane in the centre of the road and ped. refuge. Most of the road is covered in white paint!
I tend to agree with justinp1 about the purpose of the road markings when leaving the location.
I thought truvelos didnt need road markings?
What I was talking about was in relation to gatso only, however I have seen a couple of places which used to be a 'rear shooting' gatso, and it has now been replaced with a front shooting truvelo, so if you routinely slowed down just as you came to the lines, that is too late!
What I was talking about was in relation to gatso only, however I have seen a couple of places which used to be a 'rear shooting' gatso, and it has now been replaced with a front shooting truvelo, so if you routinely slowed down just as you came to the lines, that is too late!
justinp1 said:
I thought truvelos didnt need road markings?
Nope, they still need the lines though only a few narrow ones rather than a whole array - only one photo taken.
In theory I think this is to ensure they get the 'right' vehicle it the thing is being used across a dual carriageway (or something like that).
Quite what the mass of lines for the rear facing set up is meant to be for I don't know - hence my earlier post.
Some of these in Worcester associated with Gatsos. I had always assumed (and you know what they say about assume!) that the Gatso could be turned through 180 degrees and scan in the opposite direction. Often see it on central reservations of DCs.
Thinking about it I've never seen these in Worcester pointing in any other direction than left hand kerb facing forward so my assumption may be total horlicks.
Thinking about it I've never seen these in Worcester pointing in any other direction than left hand kerb facing forward so my assumption may be total horlicks.
I know of several Gatsos that have lines painted both sides but are never moved, I reckon they do it to fool people into thinking it works both ways and to save buying 2 Scameras - most people slow down at the sight of a Scamera or lines on the road and some Gatso's don't even have film in, so it works....
LongQ said:
I thought truvelos didnt need road markings?
Nope, they still need the lines though only a few narrow ones rather than a whole array - only one photo taken.
In theory I think this is to ensure they get the 'right' vehicle it the thing is being used across a dual carriageway (or something like that).
Quite what the mass of lines for the rear facing set up is meant to be for I don't know - hence my earlier post.
So where is the independent second opinion with Truvelos? With Gatsos you can check your speed by counting the lines between the 2 photos. What performs the same job with the Truvelos?
Peter Ward said:
So where is the independent second opinion with Truvelos? With Gatsos you can check your speed by counting the lines between the 2 photos. What performs the same job with the Truvelos?
The photo and its associated timing is the secondary corroborating evidence, the signals from the (two sets of) piezo sensors forming the primary (these are not an inductive loop type sensors, those are usually used as vehicle detection sensors for traffic light controllers but are not good enough to accurately determine exactly where a vehicle is).
For the Truvelo, the trick is in the timing of the photo. The system determines this in real-time by extrapolation of time over the distance from the last sensor strip to the white lines from the speed measured from the sensors (primary measurement). Hence if all goes well, the photo will be taken when the front tyres of the vehicle are between the 1st and 3rd lines (ideally on the 2nd).
smeggy said:Thanks, smeggy. Very interesting.
So where is the independent second opinion with Truvelos? With Gatsos you can check your speed by counting the lines between the 2 photos. What performs the same job with the Truvelos?
The photo and its associated timing is the secondary corroborating evidence, the signals from the (two sets of) piezo sensors forming the primary (these are not an inductive loop type sensors, those are usually used as vehicle detection sensors for traffic light controllers but are not good enough to accurately determine exactly where a vehicle is).
For the Truvelo, the trick is in the timing of the photo. The system determines this in real-time by extrapolation of time over the distance from the last sensor strip to the white lines from the speed measured from the sensors (primary measurement). Hence if all goes well, the photo will be taken when the front tyres of the vehicle are between the 1st and 3rd lines (ideally on the 2nd).
Photos of the system are here
Close up of loops and lines
and
the famous mini and truck shot
Of course the second shot is outwith the ACPO Code of Practice, unattended device two vehicles in measurement zone. Bet that doesn't stop the scamps though.
Again the system doesn't allow the defendant much of an opportunity for them to corroborate the evidence without standing out in a running lane taking measurements.
Editedto correct link per towman's post, oops sorry, thanks t for pointing out FiF muppetry.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Tuesday 3rd January 10:25
Close up of loops and lines
and
the famous mini and truck shot
Of course the second shot is outwith the ACPO Code of Practice, unattended device two vehicles in measurement zone. Bet that doesn't stop the scamps though.
Again the system doesn't allow the defendant much of an opportunity for them to corroborate the evidence without standing out in a running lane taking measurements.
Editedto correct link per towman's post, oops sorry, thanks t for pointing out FiF muppetry.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Tuesday 3rd January 10:25
This isn't meant to take anything away from the more useful factual replies here, but I seem to remember from ABD files a guy who asked his Council why a Truvelo camera had lots of white lines as per a GATSO when they weren't needed, and that the reply was that the relevant workmen's installation manual didn't distinguish between camera types, it said white lines had to be painted starting x metres beyond the camera (in terms of traffic flow) y metres apart, so white lines were painted. Even though there would never be a photo showing these lines you can't argue with logic like that 
turbobloke said:
This isn't meant to take anything away from the more useful factual replies here, but I seem to remember from ABD files a guy who asked his Council why a Truvelo camera had lots of white lines as per a GATSO when they weren't needed, and that the reply was that the relevant workmen's installation manual didn't distinguish between camera types, it said white lines had to be painted starting x metres beyond the camera (in terms of traffic flow) y metres apart, so white lines were painted. Even though there would never be a photo showing these lines you can't argue with logic like that
Sadly and inevitably, that is the answer that makes the most sense in my head. Gotta love this country...
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