Highway Agency Traffic Officers (HATO's)
Discussion
A number of threads going, mainly the impression of pretend police, my gripe is that their vehicles look just like police and they drive like a typical patrol used to/does at 55 mph or thereabouts, they cause a back-log of traffic because, at speed, drivers think that it is the police and slow down then again, the same happens to incident tranny vans and freds recovery.
The idea, I thought, was to free up police patrols to concentrate on criminal behavior (widest interpretation) on the M’way, as a number of posts suggest, they freed up police M’way patrols so that they could be deployed elsewhere and not on the motorway, hence a drop in the standards of driving and no police.
Sometimes, I think they cause an unnecessary distraction, often they are at a breakdown which would be pretty innocuous, but their presence, through the use of their vehicle as a barrier attracts attention, Muppets slow down to rubber neck which causes tail backs, yet, when they are not in attendance at similar incidents, the traffic flows past.
If they assist the police’s job in keeping the traffic flowing, then I suppose they work. But I do feel, like others have posted, that they are a pseudo-police patrol – hence the livery of the vehicles and tend to be more of a distraction.
The idea, I thought, was to free up police patrols to concentrate on criminal behavior (widest interpretation) on the M’way, as a number of posts suggest, they freed up police M’way patrols so that they could be deployed elsewhere and not on the motorway, hence a drop in the standards of driving and no police.
Sometimes, I think they cause an unnecessary distraction, often they are at a breakdown which would be pretty innocuous, but their presence, through the use of their vehicle as a barrier attracts attention, Muppets slow down to rubber neck which causes tail backs, yet, when they are not in attendance at similar incidents, the traffic flows past.
If they assist the police’s job in keeping the traffic flowing, then I suppose they work. But I do feel, like others have posted, that they are a pseudo-police patrol – hence the livery of the vehicles and tend to be more of a distraction.
Interesting comments, feedback from many people is that they are 'wannabe' traffic officers. I hope EVERYBODY realises that they have NO POWERS to enforce traffic law - if they speak to you about anything regarding your driving say 'thank you very much for your input, but i do not believe you have any right to say that or do anything about it' (or something similar!!)
captmarcoramius said:
Interesting comments, feedback from many people is that they are 'wannabe' traffic officers. I hope EVERYBODY realises that they have NO POWERS to enforce traffic law - if they speak to you about anything regarding your driving say 'thank you very much for your input, but i do not believe you have any right to say that or do anything about it' (or something similar!!)
...yet.
They are a waste of money that could be better spent on REAL traffic police patrols.
Simple - two HATO's plus brand-new Land Cruiser/Disco has GOT to be at least 75% of the annual costs of two trained Trafpol plus similar vehicle or pursuit estate car (T5 or similar). Probably closer to parity.
Simple - two HATO's plus brand-new Land Cruiser/Disco has GOT to be at least 75% of the annual costs of two trained Trafpol plus similar vehicle or pursuit estate car (T5 or similar). Probably closer to parity.
captmarcoramius said:
Interesting comments, feedback from many people is that they are 'wannabe' traffic officers. I hope EVERYBODY realises that they have NO POWERS to enforce traffic law - if they speak to you about anything regarding your driving say 'thank you very much for your input, but i do not believe you have any right to say that or do anything about it' (or something similar!!)
Interesting
whilst standing in the gents at Hartshead Moor on the M62 there was a poster advertising the work HATOs do (great spending, not), it stated that it was an offence (no statute mentioned though) not to obey instructions given by a HATO.havoc said:
They are a waste of money that could be better spent on REAL traffic police patrols.
Simple - two HATO's plus brand-new Land Cruiser/Disco has GOT to be at least 75% of the annual costs of two trained Trafpol plus similar vehicle or pursuit estate car (T5 or similar). Probably closer to parity.
FYI, HATO's in the Thames Valley , the pay is £19k on a 24hr shift inc. all shift bonuses. £17.5 day shift only.
I just had a look at the Highways Agency website and at www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge/1968.aspx it is stated:
Traffic Officers work with the police but their role varies with the severity of the incident. The Highways Agency Traffic Officers are not able to fine you, but it is an offence not to comply with their directions. The police still enforce the law.
Traffic Officers work with the police but their role varies with the severity of the incident. The Highways Agency Traffic Officers are not able to fine you, but it is an offence not to comply with their directions. The police still enforce the law.
Been multiple threads on this in last year or so since HATOs deployed on Midlands motorway network.
The comments about relative costs are valid.
Don't forget that when all is quiet and no incidents / escort duty required the HATOs sit and do square root of sod all, bib are out enforcing.
HATOs only cover motorways, so far. So let us say you have an incident just off the motorway which requires nothing more than babysitting, e.g. a broken down vehicle waiting the tow truck, but its in a vulnerable place. HATOs = "not my job mate," bib have to be summoned from wherever and whatever they are doing.
And they said there would never be a two tier police force. Lied to us there.
The comments about relative costs are valid.
Don't forget that when all is quiet and no incidents / escort duty required the HATOs sit and do square root of sod all, bib are out enforcing.
HATOs only cover motorways, so far. So let us say you have an incident just off the motorway which requires nothing more than babysitting, e.g. a broken down vehicle waiting the tow truck, but its in a vulnerable place. HATOs = "not my job mate," bib have to be summoned from wherever and whatever they are doing.
And they said there would never be a two tier police force. Lied to us there.
Total and utter waste of time and money.
They have recruited people with no sense of self preservation - have you seen some of their "fend off" positions?
As previously stated, they simply draw attention to any minor incident - but atleast they will be on scene when the inevitable "concertina" crash occurs.
Aldoes is increase the number of persons "at risk" on the hard shoulder - although I do agree that a lone female may be reassured by their presence.
If its all about road safety why do they not tow broken down vehicles to safe locations?
There is a huge amount of correspondance in the recovery trade press at the moment - lots of the guys applied for jobs and were unsuccessful - it would appear that they want robots to follow orders to the letter and not think for themselves
And before anyone has a pop - I did apply for a supervisory role but was turned down. Thank goodness - the job appears to be nothing like how it was described.
Steve
They have recruited people with no sense of self preservation - have you seen some of their "fend off" positions?
As previously stated, they simply draw attention to any minor incident - but atleast they will be on scene when the inevitable "concertina" crash occurs.
Aldoes is increase the number of persons "at risk" on the hard shoulder - although I do agree that a lone female may be reassured by their presence.
If its all about road safety why do they not tow broken down vehicles to safe locations?
There is a huge amount of correspondance in the recovery trade press at the moment - lots of the guys applied for jobs and were unsuccessful - it would appear that they want robots to follow orders to the letter and not think for themselves
And before anyone has a pop - I did apply for a supervisory role but was turned down. Thank goodness - the job appears to be nothing like how it was described.
Steve
MartinD said:
They are a waste of money that could be better spent on REAL traffic police patrols.
Simple - two HATO's plus brand-new Land Cruiser/Disco has GOT to be at least 75% of the annual costs of two trained Trafpol plus similar vehicle or pursuit estate car (T5 or similar). Probably closer to parity.
FYI, HATO's in the Thames Valley , the pay is £19k on a 24hr shift inc. all shift bonuses. £17.5 day shift only.
Hmmm...and how much does it cost to run and maintain one of those behemoths they drive around in - £30k purchase, £££ kit, £££ depreciation, £££ servicing and maintenance (or is that all done by dealers now???). Diesel? Tyres? Insurance...
Bet the annual cost of the vehicle is the same as the combined salaries. So even if a traffic officer earns £30k, then that IS over 75%, as I suggested.
HATOs = HAteful TOssers, pretend police either with a huge chip on their shoulders or a Hitler complex....... met some on the M2/M23? recently, absolutely ignorant tossers who think they have (LIARS told me they had) powers of arrest etc... told them to farkoff and drove away...... thinking of bringing charges for impersonating police etc.....
edited coz ov slpellig mistooks
>> Edited by JMGS4 on Wednesday 4th January 09:45
edited coz ov slpellig mistooks
>> Edited by JMGS4 on Wednesday 4th January 09:45
The real cost with Police is the pensions welfare package. I remember reading that something like one third of the Police costs in your rates is to pay the pensions of the retired Police. The goverment knows it cannot take away these rights from the existing police or even new recruites, so its desperatly de policing the jobs. If you go to a police station to report a crime chances are your talking to a civilian. I believe they are considering using civilians to visit your house and collect information if you report a crime such as burglery.I wonder if the police are happy ...since soon you will only meet a police man when your being arrested..cant be good for there public image
Well.....the negative comments duly listened to, firstly, the vehicles are generally on lease, at greatly reduced rates, sometimes on free loan and seen as a promotion or moving, liveried adverts..
They cannot arrest, and have no powers to do so, so whoever said that was telling porkies, and in our area they are restricted to hard shoulder work only, shall not break the speed limit and have no powers to stop motorists.
What they do though, is provide a relief for those of us that have spent hours sat with breakdowns in awkward positions, debris, and generally crap jobs that take us away from core policing. Most of them are retired police officers (generally traffic) that obviously can't get enough of it - bit sad, but they do at least have the experience.
As long as they stick to their remit - in other words, do the crap jobs that keep police officers from catching criminals then they will be a good thing. If however, they don't then they will be a major hindrance....Time will tell, I'll keep hold of my views for another 6 months or so, and see what I think then. At the moment they are in their infancy. If someone keeps me away from escorting a sodding mobile home 3 junctions up the motorway or sitting on a shed that has broken down then they can be my best mates.
Mike.
They cannot arrest, and have no powers to do so, so whoever said that was telling porkies, and in our area they are restricted to hard shoulder work only, shall not break the speed limit and have no powers to stop motorists.
What they do though, is provide a relief for those of us that have spent hours sat with breakdowns in awkward positions, debris, and generally crap jobs that take us away from core policing. Most of them are retired police officers (generally traffic) that obviously can't get enough of it - bit sad, but they do at least have the experience.
As long as they stick to their remit - in other words, do the crap jobs that keep police officers from catching criminals then they will be a good thing. If however, they don't then they will be a major hindrance....Time will tell, I'll keep hold of my views for another 6 months or so, and see what I think then. At the moment they are in their infancy. If someone keeps me away from escorting a sodding mobile home 3 junctions up the motorway or sitting on a shed that has broken down then they can be my best mates.
Mike.
shelsleyf2 said:
The real cost with Police is the pensions welfare package. I remember reading that something like one third of the Police costs in your rates is to pay the pensions of the retired Police. The goverment knows it cannot take away these rights from the existing police or even new recruites, so its desperatly de policing the jobs. If you go to a police station to report a crime chances are your talking to a civilian. I believe they are considering using civilians to visit your house and collect information if you report a crime such as burglery.I wonder if the police are happy ...since soon you will only meet a police man when your being arrested..cant be good for there public image
They have changed new recruits pensions/ conditions of service from January this year, to receive a different pension, and not one that they have to contribute 11% of their wages to each month.
Civilians helping out can be ok in some circumstances, as it means those officers that were stuck in front office jobs / sat behing wide loads
etc can go out and nick criminals and mingle with the community etc etc, which after all is what it's about, and not being stuck behind a desk. silverback mike said:
What they do though, is provide a relief for those of us that have spent hours sat with breakdowns in awkward positions, debris, and generally crap jobs that take us away from core policing. Most of them are retired police officers (generally traffic) that obviously can't get enough of it - bit sad, but they do at least have the experience.
As long as they stick to their remit - in other words, do the crap jobs that keep police officers from catching criminals then they will be a good thing.
Well said young man!!! Lets hope they are there when needed in those roles only
and not as the tossers who attempted to stop me by driving into me and give me a lecture about my driving in Kent(?)...... farkoff lil hitler.....
On a connected subject, I saw a poster on the Underground today saying (paraphrased): "PCSOs are Police Officers."
That's funny, I thought they were a cut-price, barely trained substitute introduced by the government to allow them to claim to have boosted Police numbers. How wrong I was.
That's funny, I thought they were a cut-price, barely trained substitute introduced by the government to allow them to claim to have boosted Police numbers. How wrong I was.
silverback mike said:
What they do though, is provide a relief for those of us that have spent hours sat with breakdowns in awkward positions, debris, and generally crap jobs that take us away from core policing. Most of them are retired police officers (generally traffic) that obviously can't get enough of it - bit sad, but they do at least have the experience.
I have no concrete opinion of them but my one experience was positive.
After breaking down on the M1 in the pissing rain with my gf who was getting pretty scared by the closeness of the trucks, the fact it was getting dark and it was bloody cold. I was grateful to the two agency bods who stood with us for two hours, provided us with some jackets and coned off their car and mine while we waited on the AA.
trooperiziz said:
What they do though, is provide a relief for those of us that have spent hours sat with breakdowns in awkward positions, debris, and generally crap jobs that take us away from core policing. Most of them are retired police officers (generally traffic) that obviously can't get enough of it - bit sad, but they do at least have the experience.
I have no concrete opinion of them but my one experience was positive.
After breaking down on the M1 in the pissing rain with my gf who was getting pretty scared by the closeness of the trucks, the fact it was getting dark and it was bloody cold. I was grateful to the two agency bods who stood with us for two hours, provided us with some jackets and coned off their car and mine while we waited on the AA.
Excellent, just what they are there for, good to hear.
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