Discussion
Wow, yes pull over and question the plods as to the indiscriminate use, politely and correctly if you are 100% in the clear it is your right as a citizen they are after all public servants. However if you are even a few mph over or have anything at all you are not sure of drive on and keep your head down !!!! After all they will get you given the chance (or attack you with a claw hammer then hang themselves) oooops thats a bit insensitive sorry.
Then you take it further. The police are not above the law as you know, so if they are breaking it, then someone is responsible and can be punished for their abuse of power.
It isn`t any good complaining then doing nothing about it ?!?!?
(unless you are plod too of course then it would not be prudent )
Edited by Jason F on Saturday 1st September 09:53
As far as I am aware the rule about the copper having to believe that the vehicle is 'exceeding the speed limit' is an ACPO regulation.. Im guessing (someone please correct me if im wrong) that this is just a recommended practice and not a legal requirement. How could you prove that he had indescriminately targeted vehivles anyway? i think that would be the hard bit!
Matt to be blunt get real if. Yes the laser/radar is there to coroborate our opinion, I am reasonalbly good at guessing a cars speed but for every one speeder I must 'zap' 20/30 others who are below the limit. Contry to popular belief I and most of the colleagues I work with don't pick on a car because it is flashy, driven by a young driver, got posey ally wheels etc we usually pick on it because it is being driven too fast or driven inconsideratly. Yes we occasionally do go out at weekends next weekend I will be out with a laser on one of the popular biking routes the reason is simple a small minority or irresponsible bikers are out there going daft and killing/seriously injuring themselves, 6 managed it last year and 4 have done it this year that does not include the ones on neighbouring forces. yes it does work they do slow down
quote:Yes and I bet it will be on a nice stretch of national speed limit A road !! It is well documented that now days most motorcyle fatalities on modern sports bikes are on fast open roads with the general cause being "rider error" or in other words riders riding beyond their abilities with powerful machinery on unsuitable roads. It is actually quite rare for other road users to be seriously hurt by "nutters on bikes" so in a word John why ???? Yes I agree your the poor bastard that has to tell the next of kin but thats your job. I have seen you previously post that there are areas where speeding is acceptable and that you have used discretion, I'd really like to know if these "popular biking routes" are what you might have previously regarded as "low risk". Certainly my experience is that on a Sunday morning plod can often be seen on bridges and laybys of near empty by passes and A roads waiting for the 150mph give it a blast merchants. Now lets be honest 150mph on a modern sports bike is maybe 80% of its potential so within the bikes abilities and what really is the risk to others apart from the rider ??. We're big boys with big boys toys we know the risks and the odds we're playing with (all right we forget sometimes) so let them get on with it. If you'll be sitting in a village I apologise. But if not why don't you start being constructive in your education program. Go and sit in the cafe car park or wherever your local bikers meet after their blast, set up a nice display of pictures from your worst motorcycle RTA's, use the photo's of dead bikers (I bet most of the next of kin would agree) talk to these people hell bring a couple of paramedics as well, they do listen, or if you do ride a police bike take some out on a accompanied "progressive ride" and show off your skills as a police rider show these people where speed is appropriate (probably where your speed trap will be). I guarantee that a sunday morning talking and educating motorcyclists in a car park would be more constructive than nicking a dozen for speeding (most will be over a ton and so lose licenses and possible jobs, I bet most are 30 something professionals no criminal convictions) tell them this show them your radar guns, your unmarked bikes and cars, tell them a T5 will catch them and make them think. These people aren't criminals most are well educated, intelligent and do well paid worthwhile jobs they are similar to the bulk of people who use these pages, If you can educate through the internet you should be capable of doing it face to face. Get down to their haunts and talk to them they will be inteligent enough to listen. And just for the record in the last year I have lost one close friend and knew two other people who have been killed in motorcycle accidents, I have raced bikes at a national level for many years and ride on the road, I currently have a clean license (only just I'll admit) and often see 150 mph on appropriate UK roads !!! I know the risks very well but it's in the blood. I have cried at funerals and sat with the widows of friends and not one of them has said "If there'd been a speed trap if wouldn't have happened" but I have heard many times "the bloody fool" or "I knew that bike would kill him" Educate them John don't persecute them. Why not use some of your forces gatso revenue and run a few track days with an open invite, these people have turned their back on the IAM and other reflective sambrown wearers because they are out of touch and out of date they are currently outside the education program apart from race schools and track days which only manage to teach them how to go faster not when to.
Yes we occasionally do go out at weekends next weekend I will be out with a laser on one of the popular biking routes the reason is simple a small minority or irresponsible bikers are out there going daft and killing/seriously injuring themselves, 6 managed it last year and 4 have done it this year that does not include the ones on neighbouring forces. yes it does work they do slow down
quote:John, please forgive me for being picky here.. but if by 'zap' you mean use the laser gun to measure speed then a 1:30 ratio means that either your judgement of a vehicle speed is not as accurate as you believe or do target vehicles indiscriminately. I very much suspect it is the latter…
but for every one speeder I must 'zap' 20/30 others who are below the limit
Hear, hear Mel !!
We have a *lot* of bikers coming into my town on a Sunday morning and the vast majority are normal civilised human beings who own the bike for recreational use.
Sadly a few of them seem to ride like muppets - riding in blind spots, overtaking in daft places and doing silly speeds in 40mph zones past houses with concealed driveways or with limited views and a friend of mine (who owns such a house) admits it's a game of Russian Roulette pulling out of his driveway at times.
A speed trap might catch a few of them but a chat at the cafe where they meet up would achieve so much more. I've got no real problem with them coming into the town, I just wish that some of them would realise that their behaviour on the roads can be a little intimidating.
One of Comrade Blair's mantras at election time was "Education, education, education" - well how about it Mr Robson ? Better that than "persecution, persecution, persecution" or having to explain to another family why their husband / brother / father / etc. won't be coming home again ??
John Robson,
I understand that laser is able to detect speeding offences from a much further distance. On that basis, do you ALWAYS form an opinion that a car is speeding before triggering the laser?
Also, I've noticed on several occasions you appear fond of quoting details of accidents (i.e. 4 accidents here, 6 accidents there, etc..) - Clearly these figures are meaningless unless we take into account the actual volumes of traffic on the roads that these accidents are occuring. Only with these figures can we form a view of whether a road has a particular accident problem.
I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Mel
A number of good points, particularly Police 'having a chat in car parks'. Apart from anything else this would be excellent PR for the boys in blue.
I was at a Porsche Track day at Castle Combe a few weeks ago, a traffic car pulled into the car park just to have a nose round (whether they were looking for stolen motors I don't know). They got out had a chat and generally turned out to be a top couple of blokes, they even used the laser gun on a couple of cars at their owners request!! I was surprised to hear that they had no idea you could actually do a track day, and what it involved. They were both impressed with the idea and made favourable comments about the driving.
My point being local constabularies would benefit immensely from sending a traffic car for an hour or so to club days, just to talk to people with no strings attached and give the police a more human face.
by Mel "Now lets be honest 150mph on a modern sports bike is maybe 80% of its potential so within the bikes abilities and what really is the risk to others apart from the rider ??."
But is it 80% of the drivers ability, as for the risk to others a while ago around my area a sports bike hit a metro at speed. It turned the car over and killed the occupant, I met her fiance a few days later.
Paul
Cotty,
Often not and that's why I used that choice of words and made the point about education and appropriate places, I ride most weeks on closed circuits for testing at 180+ so I know the limits but you are correct most don't !!
As for a sportsbike turning over a metro yes I believe it,(A friend very nearly killed himself when he hit an astra van and turned it over on himself!) The van driver was later prosecuted in this case I'll add..... But hit a metro at 30mph in an HGV and watch what happens but are 30 mph lorries deliberatly targetted on main roads ???? I think not. It's sad, people die and I'm sure it was an unpleasant incident but the key point is how better to prevent it ???? I bet she wasn't hit from behind on a clear straight A road and education of the rider would have helped not a speed trap on a flyover !
I think this thread is going in a similar way to many others in that 'Education and Information' are lacking in all areas of driving. Many of the people on this forum seem to be people that know their driving limits resonably well. As we all know the government wants less cars on the road and speeding is any easy offence to prove and get a conviciton. And they make money from it... A little spin about road safety, mention some statistics and they come out smelling of roses.
Its clear that having a winge about the police isnt the way to win things (although it might make you feel better!). Joining the ABD definately would be a good start..
Marv.
I like the idea of less cars on the road, it leaves more room on the road for me to play on 
But seriously the police like many others cant jug on coming speed in day or night accurately and this might be why they just zap every one, so if we use a little common sense about this.
I think we all enjoy a spirited drive but we aren't going to do it passing a trafic car but Matt is going on about the law stating the correct use a speed detector, he makes it sound as if it would be ok to pass the police at speed and not be zaped aslong as he dosn't look as though he is speeding !
The police have every right to use this equipment when ever, where ever they like and there is not much we can do about it except to keep on your toss, drive at the correct speed when necessary an don't be a tos@er about it all
There are plenty of roads to play on and they can't patrol them all 
My rant over
Thanks for reading
But seriously the police like many others cant jug on coming speed in day or night accurately and this might be why they just zap every one, so if we use a little common sense about this.
I think we all enjoy a spirited drive but we aren't going to do it passing a trafic car but Matt is going on about the law stating the correct use a speed detector, he makes it sound as if it would be ok to pass the police at speed and not be zaped aslong as he dosn't look as though he is speeding !
The police have every right to use this equipment when ever, where ever they like and there is not much we can do about it except to keep on your toss, drive at the correct speed when necessary an don't be a tos@er about it all
There are plenty of roads to play on and they can't patrol them all
My rant over
Thanks for reading
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