questions on reliability
Discussion
Griff interloper here! I have to say that I rather fancy a Tuscan but reading this and some other stuff really puts a bloke off.
What I don't understand is why these problems have been going on for so long. Any big problems can only be a result of 1/ fundamental design (e.g. running temps too high for materials and their respective heat treatments, oils etc) 2/ incorrect component heat treatment or dimensional specification 3/ Quality control such that parts conform to their specification 4/ wear and tear (abuse or otherwise).
I've heard about engines being rebuilt due to parts quality (cam followers too soft?) and then engines conking out after the re-build. This doesn't pass the "smell test" to me - If there is a known problem with the quality of certain parts due to manufacturing processes, then it's relatively straightforward to implement quality control fixes to these problems e.g. certificate of conformity for raw materials, hardness testing of heat treated components etc.
So what are the problems exactly?
What I don't understand is why these problems have been going on for so long. Any big problems can only be a result of 1/ fundamental design (e.g. running temps too high for materials and their respective heat treatments, oils etc) 2/ incorrect component heat treatment or dimensional specification 3/ Quality control such that parts conform to their specification 4/ wear and tear (abuse or otherwise).
I've heard about engines being rebuilt due to parts quality (cam followers too soft?) and then engines conking out after the re-build. This doesn't pass the "smell test" to me - If there is a known problem with the quality of certain parts due to manufacturing processes, then it's relatively straightforward to implement quality control fixes to these problems e.g. certificate of conformity for raw materials, hardness testing of heat treated components etc.
So what are the problems exactly?
Problem is A LOT has been said... And I've read it all.
But I for one still have not heard a convincing answer.... or have a feel good factor about even tusc 2 s6's getting to a high mileage...
As I understand it there is apparently a design flaw, which apparently a melling is soon to do a talk/sell a solution...(ie TVR did not do it to his original design)
Yet no word that tvr has acknowledged it,,,or more importantly changed the design for the tusc 2... so as far as info from tvr is, it appears that nothing has been changed on the engine... I don't believe it's all bad parts, though by the sounds of it a contributory factor.
But that is just my opinion, which means just one less Tusc 2 sale, in the scheme of things
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Tuesday 2nd August 18:03
But I for one still have not heard a convincing answer.... or have a feel good factor about even tusc 2 s6's getting to a high mileage...
As I understand it there is apparently a design flaw, which apparently a melling is soon to do a talk/sell a solution...(ie TVR did not do it to his original design)
Yet no word that tvr has acknowledged it,,,or more importantly changed the design for the tusc 2... so as far as info from tvr is, it appears that nothing has been changed on the engine... I don't believe it's all bad parts, though by the sounds of it a contributory factor.
But that is just my opinion, which means just one less Tusc 2 sale, in the scheme of things
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Tuesday 2nd August 18:03
I think now we should start putting other factors into consideration, and stop saying its a Tuscan SP6 problem. Cerbs,Tamoras,350's,Tuscans and the Sagaris all now have the SP6 and very few engine failings have been reported.
As Bryan (TUS 373) said, the early engine problems have been discussed and argued about for years.
From nearly three years of Tusc ownership, 17,000mls in the 1st and currently 5,000 mls with no engine trouble, I would say that if you are keen then the risk is worth taking.
I may not get another Tusc or any TVR when the time comes, but if I dont it wont be because of engine worries.
As Bryan (TUS 373) said, the early engine problems have been discussed and argued about for years.
From nearly three years of Tusc ownership, 17,000mls in the 1st and currently 5,000 mls with no engine trouble, I would say that if you are keen then the risk is worth taking.
I may not get another Tusc or any TVR when the time comes, but if I dont it wont be because of engine worries.
Hi,
I agree with everyone here, this has been talked about ad infinitum.
However in defence of the poster, he may not be aware that this is a huge subject on the Tuscan boards, and is correct in the fact that there are simply no 'correct' or even trustable answers. In conclusion, and to answer the original question from other conversations, I will make a short account of everyones findings.
1) The SP6 problems are down to soft cams/finger followers, generally a batch of poor quality parts. These are now replaced and modified with parts of the correct quality.
However, despite this there people who have had two and even three (!) rebuilds, many at their own expense. We hear that this
2) The only cars really affected were the 2000-2001 Tuscans. The new 3.6 engine is fine.
However, we keep hearing 'they were fine from six months ago'. Last year the 2002 cars were pretty much OK, until these got to a reasonable milage... then needed a rebuild. This year we have the first reports of a perfectly run in and cared for 3.6 also needing a rebuild and finger followers. So, if this is the case on a car which was built in July 2003, what on earth was put in the rebuilds at that time!?
3) We hear from TVR that the design for the SP6 has not changed since it went into production. Yet we also hear from TVR that modifications mean that the engine is now improved!? Well you should hope so considering that it is currently being sold...
However if there is a design fault which is now modified to prevent problems, this would mean that people who have not run up huge milages and not abused their car would have their car fixed by TVR for free to repair and modify their car to a workable standard... I wont even go there...
The best information we have about the depth of this problem was collated by JSG who spent a huge amount of time creating reliability charts and figures. This was pulished around a year ago. The finding of the report was that the newer the engine the less they had been rebuilt. However what was also true was that the newer the engine, the less miles it had done. Thus although the findings were useful it did not mean that newer engines could be proved much more reliable. Last month he mentioned in a similar post that unfortunately this was true, and this was found out when the 2001-2002 cars reached reasonable milages. The figure he put on it last month was that 80% of early Tuscans have been rebuilt.
Making a guestimate on costs involved, if there are 2000 early Tuscans, approximately 1600 have been rebuilt. Maybe 70% of these have been out of warranty. This leaves 1120 happy (ahem) customers, each paying approximately £4000 each. This comes to £4.48m.
I accept my figures maybe a bit, or even a way out, but even if I have doubled the estimate through error, this is still a lot of money.
It seems that people are being told reasons why their car needs work in such a way to reduce liability. Maybe this is the reason why the reasons change over time and seem to contradict eachother? As far as I am aware no-one had legally challenged TVR.
Now, you may think as you are reading this that I am typing a load of BS. Thats fine. However there is one thing which could happen which would mean that I would not have had to recount all of the above and maybe give my own opinion. There is something which could tell JSG his figures are wrong. There is one thing which would mean that this seemingly weekly question WOULD be answered concisely by a quick search of the postings.
This is obviously for TVR to admit the problem(s). Admit the figures, and put something in place to put the problems right at their cost.
For those who dont yet know, TVR have not ever officially done this. Will we ever see it? Hmm, this would mean that the millions which have been paid by people for rebuilds would have to be returned with suitable compensation for losing their car (invariably due to usage patterns the summer months when it is needed). This would also mean that TVR owners may trust TVR due to their honesty (I would). However this would most likely backfire in getting new customers. New customers would not completely understand the SP6 saga and would probably not want to buy a car with an engine with an 80% failure rate whether it comes with a 3 year warranty or not!
I hope this makes the matter as clear as it can be. About as clear as mud. If these are the actions or a company you would like to entrust your hard earned money, then it's a free country. Others will too. Just dont do it before you know all the facts. This may include contacting TVR directly for a written explanation of the previous and potential problems. I, for one would love to see it.
By all means buy a Tuscan. I did and I loved driving it. If you buy new, you are covered by a three year warranty, so even *if* it needs a rebuild, at least you wont be paying for it for the first 3 years.
If you buy second hand, it is the risk you take. You may have a car which never needs to be rebuilt ever. A lot of people would say you would be lucky. To buy second hand, pretend that the car costs £5k more and when you buy it put your extra £5k in a savings account. I challenge anyone to add £5k to the cost of a second hand Tuscan and find a better car for your money.
If you never need a rebuild by the time you sell the Tuscan you will have £5k in the bank plus interest. If you need a rebuild, you thank yourself you did it, and the car is still within your total budget.
People who like driving cars such as TVRs are naturally not afraid of risk. Luckily this has proved not hugely problematic for their sales and their chance of being reliable. We are the type of people who are prepared to accept the risk. If not, the Tuscan is the wrong car for you. Boxters are cheap at the moment
But to be honest you are far better off with a Griff!
>> Edited by justinp1 on Tuesday 2nd August 20:25
I agree with everyone here, this has been talked about ad infinitum.
However in defence of the poster, he may not be aware that this is a huge subject on the Tuscan boards, and is correct in the fact that there are simply no 'correct' or even trustable answers. In conclusion, and to answer the original question from other conversations, I will make a short account of everyones findings.
1) The SP6 problems are down to soft cams/finger followers, generally a batch of poor quality parts. These are now replaced and modified with parts of the correct quality.
However, despite this there people who have had two and even three (!) rebuilds, many at their own expense. We hear that this
2) The only cars really affected were the 2000-2001 Tuscans. The new 3.6 engine is fine.
However, we keep hearing 'they were fine from six months ago'. Last year the 2002 cars were pretty much OK, until these got to a reasonable milage... then needed a rebuild. This year we have the first reports of a perfectly run in and cared for 3.6 also needing a rebuild and finger followers. So, if this is the case on a car which was built in July 2003, what on earth was put in the rebuilds at that time!?
3) We hear from TVR that the design for the SP6 has not changed since it went into production. Yet we also hear from TVR that modifications mean that the engine is now improved!? Well you should hope so considering that it is currently being sold...
However if there is a design fault which is now modified to prevent problems, this would mean that people who have not run up huge milages and not abused their car would have their car fixed by TVR for free to repair and modify their car to a workable standard... I wont even go there...
The best information we have about the depth of this problem was collated by JSG who spent a huge amount of time creating reliability charts and figures. This was pulished around a year ago. The finding of the report was that the newer the engine the less they had been rebuilt. However what was also true was that the newer the engine, the less miles it had done. Thus although the findings were useful it did not mean that newer engines could be proved much more reliable. Last month he mentioned in a similar post that unfortunately this was true, and this was found out when the 2001-2002 cars reached reasonable milages. The figure he put on it last month was that 80% of early Tuscans have been rebuilt.
Making a guestimate on costs involved, if there are 2000 early Tuscans, approximately 1600 have been rebuilt. Maybe 70% of these have been out of warranty. This leaves 1120 happy (ahem) customers, each paying approximately £4000 each. This comes to £4.48m.
I accept my figures maybe a bit, or even a way out, but even if I have doubled the estimate through error, this is still a lot of money.
It seems that people are being told reasons why their car needs work in such a way to reduce liability. Maybe this is the reason why the reasons change over time and seem to contradict eachother? As far as I am aware no-one had legally challenged TVR.
Now, you may think as you are reading this that I am typing a load of BS. Thats fine. However there is one thing which could happen which would mean that I would not have had to recount all of the above and maybe give my own opinion. There is something which could tell JSG his figures are wrong. There is one thing which would mean that this seemingly weekly question WOULD be answered concisely by a quick search of the postings.
This is obviously for TVR to admit the problem(s). Admit the figures, and put something in place to put the problems right at their cost.
For those who dont yet know, TVR have not ever officially done this. Will we ever see it? Hmm, this would mean that the millions which have been paid by people for rebuilds would have to be returned with suitable compensation for losing their car (invariably due to usage patterns the summer months when it is needed). This would also mean that TVR owners may trust TVR due to their honesty (I would). However this would most likely backfire in getting new customers. New customers would not completely understand the SP6 saga and would probably not want to buy a car with an engine with an 80% failure rate whether it comes with a 3 year warranty or not!
I hope this makes the matter as clear as it can be. About as clear as mud. If these are the actions or a company you would like to entrust your hard earned money, then it's a free country. Others will too. Just dont do it before you know all the facts. This may include contacting TVR directly for a written explanation of the previous and potential problems. I, for one would love to see it.
By all means buy a Tuscan. I did and I loved driving it. If you buy new, you are covered by a three year warranty, so even *if* it needs a rebuild, at least you wont be paying for it for the first 3 years.
If you buy second hand, it is the risk you take. You may have a car which never needs to be rebuilt ever. A lot of people would say you would be lucky. To buy second hand, pretend that the car costs £5k more and when you buy it put your extra £5k in a savings account. I challenge anyone to add £5k to the cost of a second hand Tuscan and find a better car for your money.
If you never need a rebuild by the time you sell the Tuscan you will have £5k in the bank plus interest. If you need a rebuild, you thank yourself you did it, and the car is still within your total budget.
People who like driving cars such as TVRs are naturally not afraid of risk. Luckily this has proved not hugely problematic for their sales and their chance of being reliable. We are the type of people who are prepared to accept the risk. If not, the Tuscan is the wrong car for you. Boxters are cheap at the moment
But to be honest you are far better off with a Griff! >> Edited by justinp1 on Tuesday 2nd August 20:25
justinp1 said:
Hi,
I agree with everyone here, this has been talked about ad infinitum.
However in defence of the poster, he is corect in the fact that there are simply no 'correct' or even trustable answers. In conclusion, and to answer the original question from other conversations, I will make a short account of everyones findings.
1) The SP6 problems are down to soft cams/finger followers, generally a batch of poor quality parts. These are now replaced and modified with parts of the correct quality.
However, despite this there people who have had two and even three (!) rebuilds, many at their own expense. We hear that this
2) The only cars really affected were the 2000-2001 Tuscans. The new 3.6 engine is fine.
However, we keep hearing 'they were fine from six months ago'. Last year the 2002 cars were pretty much OK, until these got to a reasonable milage... then needed a rebuild. This year we have the first reports of a perfectly run in and cared for 3.6 also needing a rebuild and finger followers. So, if this is the case on a car which was built in July 2003, what on earth was put in the rebuilds at that time!?
3) We hear from TVR that the design for the SP6 has not changed since it went into production. Yet we also hear from TVR that modifications mean that the engine is now improved!? Well you should hope so considering that it is currently being sold...
However if there is a design fault which is now modified to prevent problems, this would mean that people who have not run up huge milages and not abused their car would have their car fixed by TVR for free to repair and modify their car to a workable standard... I wont even go there...
The best information we have about the depth of this problem was collated by JSG who spent a huge amount of time creating reliability charts and figures. This was pulished around a year ago. The finding of the report was that the newer the engine the less they had been rebuilt. However what was also true was that the newer the engine, the less miles it had done. Thus although the findings were useful it did not mean that newer engines could be proved much more reliable. Last month he mentioned in a similar post that unfortunately this was true, and this was found out when the 2001-2002 cars reached reasonable milages. The figure he put on it last month was that 80% of early Tuscans have been rebuilt.
Making a guestimate on costs involved, if there are 2000 early Tuscans, approximately 1600 have been rebuilt. Maybe 70% of these have been out of warranty. This leaves 1120 happy (ahem) customers, each paying approximately £4000 each. This comes to £4.48m.
I accept my figures maybe a bit, or even a way out, but even if I have doubled the estimate through error, this is still a lot of money.
It seems that people are being told reasons why their car needs work in such a way to reduce liability. Maybe this is the reason why the reasons change over time and seem to contradict eachother? As far as I am aware no-one had legally challenged TVR.
Now, you may think as you are reading this that I am typing a load of BS. Thats fine. However there is one thing which could happen which would mean that I would not have had to recount all of the above and maybe give my own opinion. There is something which could tell JSG his figures are wrong. There is one thing which would mean that this seemingly weekly question WOULD be answered concisely by a quick search of the postings.
This is obviously for TVR to admit the problem(s). Admit the figures, and put something in place to put the problems right at their cost.
For those who dont yet know, TVR have not ever officially done this. Will we ever see it? Hmm, this would mean that the millions which have been paid by people for rebuilds would have to be returned with suitable compensation for losing their car (invariably due to usage patterns the summer months when it is needed). This would also mean that TVR owners may trust TVR due to their honesty (I would). However this would most likely backfire in getting new customers. New customers would not completely understand the SP6 saga and would probably not want to buy a car with an engine with an 80% failure rate whether it comes with a 3 year warranty or not!
I hope this makes the matter as clear as it can be. About as clear as mud. If these are the actions or a company you would like to entrust your hard earned money, then it's a free country. Others will too. Just dont do it before you know all the facts. This may include contacting TVR directly for a written explanation of the previous and potential problems. I, for one would love to see it.
By all means buy a Tuscan. I did and I loved driving it. If you buy new, you are covered by a three year warranty, so even *if* it needs a rebuild, at least you wont be paying for it for the first 3 years.
If you buy second hand, it is the risk you take. You may have a car which never needs to be rebuilt ever. A lot of people would say you would be lucky. To buy second hand, pretend that the car costs £5k more and when you buy it put your extra £5k in a savings account. I challenge anyone to add £5k to the cost of a second hand Tuscan and find a better car for your money.
If you never need a rebuild by the time you sell the Tuscan you will have £5k in the bank plus interest. If you need a rebuild, you thank yourself you did it, and the car is still within your total budget.
People who like driving cars such as TVRs are naturally not afraid of risk. Luckily this has proved not hugely problematic for their sales and their chance of being reliable. We are the type of people who are prepared to accept the risk. If not, the Tuscan is the wrong car for you. Boxters are cheap at the moment
Not knocking your stats
but on what basis do you say
2) The only cars really affected were the 2000-2001 Tuscans. The new 3.6 engine is fine.
Not wishing to go down the same old.. very old road done this etc.
Interested to hear your opinion
billynomates said:
Not knocking your stats
but on what basis do you say
2) The only cars really affected were the 2000-2001 Tuscans. The new 3.6 engine is fine.
Not wishing to go down the same old.. very old road done this etc.
Interested to hear your opinion
Hi, I say it on the basis that this is said by some to be the general consensus of opinion. This has been the case in a large number of these similar threads. To be frank out of points 1) 2) and 3) all I have done is put forward the ideas and experiences of others who have posted on this subject. I have owned a Tuscan myself, and even then I still have no idea which alternate views of the three points are true. Thus I have tried to keep my personal opinion out of it. If we want a factual answer we need to:
1) Ask TVR. And if you dont believe them.
2) Do another extensive survey.
My cause for concern personally is that whilst I sold my problematic 2000 Tuscan it was on the basis I would save up a bit more and get a 3.6 due to what has been said about them being more reliable. It now seems that even these cars are needing to be rebuilt...
I can’t understand people on this site, especially the T Sp6 forum. 'WE' as in the owners are constantly putting our cars down, complaining about problems that most of us knew about before we bought them. I have to say that I have not seen this on the 350/sag forum, so why just the Tuscan Speed 6 forum??
Is it something about us Brits that we love to complain but still put up with it and carry on complaining????
If you like the Tuscan or any other TVR powered by a Speed 6, then buy one. Buy a new one if you can afford to or check the history, warranty (if any or 3rd party) and do your homework. You are obviously a 'petrolhead' and costs are not the priority on your shopping list. Sure there have been problems, nothing though I have actually read in the press, only what I have read on PistonHeads. The car will cost you money in running, servicing, 3 party warranty etc, so live with it.
If you are unsure about the S6, costs of running or any other reliability issue with TVR then stay away and you will sleep at night, but don’t keep saying ,'Oh I would love a TVR'.
Me, I bought a new tuscan for three reasons:
1. Your a long time Dead!!!!
2. 3yr warranty.
3. This government and his spy in the sky will in the next 10-15 years have totally destroyed any enjoyment in driving buy making it to expensive.
>> Edited by almack on Tuesday 2nd August 21:55
Is it something about us Brits that we love to complain but still put up with it and carry on complaining????
If you like the Tuscan or any other TVR powered by a Speed 6, then buy one. Buy a new one if you can afford to or check the history, warranty (if any or 3rd party) and do your homework. You are obviously a 'petrolhead' and costs are not the priority on your shopping list. Sure there have been problems, nothing though I have actually read in the press, only what I have read on PistonHeads. The car will cost you money in running, servicing, 3 party warranty etc, so live with it.
If you are unsure about the S6, costs of running or any other reliability issue with TVR then stay away and you will sleep at night, but don’t keep saying ,'Oh I would love a TVR'.
Me, I bought a new tuscan for three reasons:
1. Your a long time Dead!!!!
2. 3yr warranty.
3. This government and his spy in the sky will in the next 10-15 years have totally destroyed any enjoyment in driving buy making it to expensive.
>> Edited by almack on Tuesday 2nd August 21:55
Almack....I agree!
Basically, if the question bothers you (and so many people seem to ask it), and you worry about it.....don't bother buying one, simple as that!!
Otherwise, go out.....buy one.....and just
enjoy it....you only live once
Which, is why I bought one and love every day !
Boris
Basically, if the question bothers you (and so many people seem to ask it), and you worry about it.....don't bother buying one, simple as that!!
Otherwise, go out.....buy one.....and just
enjoy it....you only live once Which, is why I bought one and love every day !
Boris
Guys,
I agree with all of the above, as I said before I loved driving my Tuscan, so much that even after I had to sell to raise money for a project I am busy watching the market and planning buying another!
With the SP6 (weekly) postings, I admit the subject is done and done to death but I think this one had a legitimate question behind it from a 'guest' to the Tuscan forum, for whom I tried to collate as much of the up to date information as possible.
Despite god know how many threads and posts, in must be said (as I mentioned in my long post) there still does not seem an official, definate answer to something which has affected a large number of TVR buyers.
I am unsure about how this became a 'why are we/you moaning' thread. I must also add that some people who have passed on their opinion that basically the guy need not worry, or if he has to worry he shouldnt buy one or just buy it and enjoy it, would probably never have had the cost or inconvenience involved with the engine problems the poster has asked about. Its a free country, and a pretty free forum, and no-one is forced to read each thread, and there is certainly no obligation to respond.
I am genuinely saddened when I read a post where someone who does not usually post feels so compelled to write about what has happened to them.
I have read recent posts about:
A Tuscan owner who has paid for three rebuilds.
A Tuscan 3.6 owner which was widely thought to have problems fixed need a rebuild.
In hearing the cost and inconvenience that these people have gone through, and in some cases how they have been treated, I am unsure how people cannot empathise with them on a human level let alone with the knowledge that we may ourselves be some time in the same position!
In this thread, someone is aspiring to own a Tuscan, and is quite rightly doing his homework! I have been helped hugely by information on this forum, and where I can I try to give an informed response where I can.
Above I completely agreed with the sentiments of loving my Tuscan and wanting to enjoy it as much as possible. I must also add that over the last couple of years I must have read tons of SP6 asking/bashing/defending threads. The problem is though is that two years on there is no real answers. The only information available which is really useful now is JSG's survey for quantitative figures combined with new developments of which I for one are greatful as it helps me make an informed decision on whether to buy another Tuscan, and if so how much I will need to spend if I do not want the worry of needing a rebuild.
I think the fact is that until the information is made public, people will still ask the same questions. TVR seem to completely avoid the subject as much as possible. All that we can do is try to help others in the community with the information they need, as all they are trying to do is have a bit of the fun that we are having!
I agree with all of the above, as I said before I loved driving my Tuscan, so much that even after I had to sell to raise money for a project I am busy watching the market and planning buying another!
With the SP6 (weekly) postings, I admit the subject is done and done to death but I think this one had a legitimate question behind it from a 'guest' to the Tuscan forum, for whom I tried to collate as much of the up to date information as possible.
Despite god know how many threads and posts, in must be said (as I mentioned in my long post) there still does not seem an official, definate answer to something which has affected a large number of TVR buyers.
I am unsure about how this became a 'why are we/you moaning' thread. I must also add that some people who have passed on their opinion that basically the guy need not worry, or if he has to worry he shouldnt buy one or just buy it and enjoy it, would probably never have had the cost or inconvenience involved with the engine problems the poster has asked about. Its a free country, and a pretty free forum, and no-one is forced to read each thread, and there is certainly no obligation to respond.
I am genuinely saddened when I read a post where someone who does not usually post feels so compelled to write about what has happened to them.
I have read recent posts about:
A Tuscan owner who has paid for three rebuilds.
A Tuscan 3.6 owner which was widely thought to have problems fixed need a rebuild.
In hearing the cost and inconvenience that these people have gone through, and in some cases how they have been treated, I am unsure how people cannot empathise with them on a human level let alone with the knowledge that we may ourselves be some time in the same position!
In this thread, someone is aspiring to own a Tuscan, and is quite rightly doing his homework! I have been helped hugely by information on this forum, and where I can I try to give an informed response where I can.
Above I completely agreed with the sentiments of loving my Tuscan and wanting to enjoy it as much as possible. I must also add that over the last couple of years I must have read tons of SP6 asking/bashing/defending threads. The problem is though is that two years on there is no real answers. The only information available which is really useful now is JSG's survey for quantitative figures combined with new developments of which I for one are greatful as it helps me make an informed decision on whether to buy another Tuscan, and if so how much I will need to spend if I do not want the worry of needing a rebuild.
I think the fact is that until the information is made public, people will still ask the same questions. TVR seem to completely avoid the subject as much as possible. All that we can do is try to help others in the community with the information they need, as all they are trying to do is have a bit of the fun that we are having!
justinp1 said:
Guys,
I agree with all of the above, as I said before I loved driving my Tuscan, so much that even after I had to sell to raise money for a project I am busy watching the market and planning buying another!
With the SP6 (weekly) postings, I admit the subject is done and done to death but I think this one had a legitimate question behind it from a 'guest' to the Tuscan forum, for whom I tried to collate as much of the up to date information as possible.
Despite god know how many threads and posts, in must be said (as I mentioned in my long post) there still does not seem an official, definate answer to something which has affected a large number of TVR buyers.
I am unsure about how this became a 'why are we/you moaning' thread. I must also add that some people who have passed on their opinion that basically the guy need not worry, or if he has to worry he shouldnt buy one or just buy it and enjoy it, would probably never have had the cost or inconvenience involved with the engine problems the poster has asked about. Its a free country, and a pretty free forum, and no-one is forced to read each thread, and there is certainly no obligation to respond.
I am genuinely saddened when I read a post where someone who does not usually post feels so compelled to write about what has happened to them.
I have read recent posts about:
A Tuscan owner who has paid for three rebuilds.
A Tuscan 3.6 owner which was widely thought to have problems fixed need a rebuild.
In hearing the cost and inconvenience that these people have gone through, and in some cases how they have been treated, I am unsure how people cannot empathise with them on a human level let alone with the knowledge that we may ourselves be some time in the same position!
In this thread, someone is aspiring to own a Tuscan, and is quite rightly doing his homework! I have been helped hugely by information on this forum, and where I can I try to give an informed response where I can.
Above I completely agreed with the sentiments of loving my Tuscan and wanting to enjoy it as much as possible. I must also add that over the last couple of years I must have read tons of SP6 asking/bashing/defending threads. The problem is though is that two years on there is no real answers. The only information available which is really useful now is JSG's survey for quantitative figures combined with new developments of which I for one are greatful as it helps me make an informed decision on whether to buy another Tuscan, and if so how much I will need to spend if I do not want the worry of needing a rebuild.
I think the fact is that until the information is made public, people will still ask the same questions. TVR seem to completely avoid the subject as much as possible. All that we can do is try to help others in the community with the information they need, as all they are trying to do is have a bit of the fun that we are having!
I have one and love it, but from what I have seen I reckon the S6 build by TVR is seriously flawed. A TVR built S6 will most likely last and last if its not too often pushed hard. Thats my view.
For those of you "ohhh you cant slag my car off" brigade.....grow up. Pundits who are looking to by an S6 TVR have a right to know and ask. If you are a decent person and have facts to offer up, you will politely advise them of this matter, which many have on here. I reckon the truth is that many of you are affraid of the accelerating depreciation of your car if so, then blame TVR not the ones who want to know and hear the truth.
Its quite obvious none of you are automotive engineers.....if you really want facts and can face the truth of this matter... Get yer asses down to Middle Wallop on the 14th August where the man who designed the S6 for TVR will present his original design. Comparisons will come out between that and the TVR build. Then you may be more qualified to make more appropriate appraisals of the situation. This presentation is provided by automotive engineers who have dismantled a number of S6 engines 3.6 and 4 litres that have failed (mine included) and seen for themselves the difference between the original design blueprints they have access to and the built TVR efforts.
For those of you looking to by an S6 TVR may I offer this.... That you hold off untill post 14 Aug as I an sure more discussion and info will be available on these pages which will perhaps help you make up your mind either way. I suspect however that it will remain....unless you got 5K to stick aside and have alternative transport.....well its over to you then.
Regards to all even the "ohhh you cant slag my car off" brigade.
G
For those of you "ohhh you cant slag my car off" brigade.....grow up. Pundits who are looking to by an S6 TVR have a right to know and ask. If you are a decent person and have facts to offer up, you will politely advise them of this matter, which many have on here. I reckon the truth is that many of you are affraid of the accelerating depreciation of your car if so, then blame TVR not the ones who want to know and hear the truth.
Its quite obvious none of you are automotive engineers.....if you really want facts and can face the truth of this matter... Get yer asses down to Middle Wallop on the 14th August where the man who designed the S6 for TVR will present his original design. Comparisons will come out between that and the TVR build. Then you may be more qualified to make more appropriate appraisals of the situation. This presentation is provided by automotive engineers who have dismantled a number of S6 engines 3.6 and 4 litres that have failed (mine included) and seen for themselves the difference between the original design blueprints they have access to and the built TVR efforts.
For those of you looking to by an S6 TVR may I offer this.... That you hold off untill post 14 Aug as I an sure more discussion and info will be available on these pages which will perhaps help you make up your mind either way. I suspect however that it will remain....unless you got 5K to stick aside and have alternative transport.....well its over to you then.
Regards to all even the "ohhh you cant slag my car off" brigade.
G
All TVR's are now powered by the S6. When people refer to "S6 engined TVR's they mean "all TVR's".
PLENTY of us have had one, or in many cases 2, S6 engined TVRs and have HAD NO ENGINE PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER.
TVR now offer a full 3 year warranty on all cars.
Life is about making decisions. You either believe in TVR or you dont. All the cars have the same engine.
If you believe in TVR and can afford it buy one. If not, don't. It's simple.
PLENTY of us have had one, or in many cases 2, S6 engined TVRs and have HAD NO ENGINE PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER.
TVR now offer a full 3 year warranty on all cars.
Life is about making decisions. You either believe in TVR or you dont. All the cars have the same engine.
If you believe in TVR and can afford it buy one. If not, don't. It's simple.
Boris the Brute said:
Almack....I agree!
Basically, if the question bothers you (and so many people seem to ask it), and you worry about it.....don't bother buying one, simple as that!!
Otherwise, go out.....buy one.....and just
Which, is why I bought one and love every day !
Boris
Couldn't agree more old boy....
zumbruk said:
All TVR's are now powered by the S6.
You missed the word "new".
I'd love a Tuscan. But there's no way I'm going to buy something with a known, documented, 75-80% failure rate.
Then dont.
(But...... I've had two. They haven't failed, nor have lots of other peoples. So whilst you would "love" a Tuscan but are scared to buy one we're all out enjoying ours.)
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