Advice on Safety Bubble in real life

[PonderingColin]

Yesterday I attended a speed awareness course on Zoom. Really interesting, actually, and feels like it should be part of driver training in the first place to be honest. The speed differentials section was fairly eye opening.

However, there was a section about maintaining 'your safety bubble', which I struggled a bit with. The idea is that you are aiming to keep a safe stopping distance in front of you, and also behind. The suggestion is that if someone behind you isn't respecting that space (maybe properly tailgating you, but more likely just leaving less of a gap than would be required for the safety bubble) then you should slow down to increase the gap in front of you. As I understand it the idea is this allows you to slow down more gently in an emergency, thus reducing the stopping distance required for the car behind you.

Now. I live in a city, and whenever I have tried this (and I gave it another try today on my commute up the motorway) it's futile, because any gap left in front of you is immediately filled, and you have to reduce speed even further to create your 'bubble' again. Repeat until funny. Before too long you are travelling too slowly causing more issues, or have given in to make some progress. The reality is in fact that you can't even leave a sensible space in front of you never mind compensating for the tailgater, because even that will be filled.

So although it's the accepted system it basically doesn't work. On that basis I was wondering whether there was any more realistic advice from the advanced drivers on here? I'm keen to improve my driving - I've been looking at RoSPA - but this is one thing I can't get my head round in the real world.

Thanks, I look forward to your input everyone!

[vonhosen]

PonderingColin said:

Yesterday I attended a speed awareness course on Zoom. Really interesting, actually, and feels like it should be part of driver training in the first place to be honest. The speed differentials section was fairly eye opening.

However, there was a section about maintaining 'your safety bubble', which I struggled a bit with. The idea is that you are aiming to keep a safe stopping distance in front of you, and also behind. The suggestion is that if someone behind you isn't respecting that space (maybe properly tailgating you, but more likely just leaving less of a gap than would be required for the safety bubble) then you should slow down to increase the gap in front of you. As I understand it the idea is this allows you to slow down more gently in an emergency, thus reducing the stopping distance required for the car behind you.

Now. I live in a city, and whenever I have tried this (and I gave it another try today on my commute up the motorway) it's futile, because any gap left in front of you is immediately filled, and you have to reduce speed even further to create your 'bubble' again. Repeat until funny. Before too long you are travelling too slowly causing more issues, or have given in to make some progress. The reality is in fact that you can't even leave a sensible space in front of you never mind compensating for the tailgater, because even that will be filled.

So although it's the accepted system it basically doesn't work. On that basis I was wondering whether there was any more realistic advice from the advanced drivers on here? I'm keen to improve my driving - I've been looking at RoSPA - but this is one thing I can't get my head round in the real world.

Thanks, I look forward to your input everyone!

If someone is determined to get into the gap in front of you then they'll get into it.
The only way you can stop them is to leave a gap smaller than the length of their vehicle & that's not tenable.
In reality when cars do get into the gap in front of you, there will be other cars ahead of them leaving the line of traffic you are in too.

Instead of worrying about vehicles filling the safe space you leave in front of you, carry out an experiment.
The regular familiar journeys you complete you will have a good idea how long they tend to take.
Instead of worrying about the vehicles that do fit into the space you do leave in front, leave the larger space & monitor what the actual effect is on the time it takes you to complete the regular familiar journeys you make.
I think you'll find any difference (if there is one) is so small as to not worry about, but you'll find the benefits in the reduction of stress experienced (once you let go of others entering that space as an emotional trigger) & the increase space, visibility & time aiding smooth running, to outweigh any (perceived) minor time losses.

[Caddyshack]

PonderingColin said:

Yesterday I attended a speed awareness course on Zoom. Really interesting, actually, and feels like it should be part of driver training in the first place to be honest. The speed differentials section was fairly eye opening.

However, there was a section about maintaining 'your safety bubble', which I struggled a bit with. The idea is that you are aiming to keep a safe stopping distance in front of you, and also behind. The suggestion is that if someone behind you isn't respecting that space (maybe properly tailgating you, but more likely just leaving less of a gap than would be required for the safety bubble) then you should slow down to increase the gap in front of you. As I understand it the idea is this allows you to slow down more gently in an emergency, thus reducing the stopping distance required for the car behind you.

Now. I live in a city, and whenever I have tried this (and I gave it another try today on my commute up the motorway) it's futile, because any gap left in front of you is immediately filled, and you have to reduce speed even further to create your 'bubble' again. Repeat until funny. Before too long you are travelling too slowly causing more issues, or have given in to make some progress. The reality is in fact that you can't even leave a sensible space in front of you never mind compensating for the tailgater, because even that will be filled.

So although it's the accepted system it basically doesn't work. On that basis I was wondering whether there was any more realistic advice from the advanced drivers on here? I'm keen to improve my driving - I've been looking at RoSPA - but this is one thing I can't get my head round in the real world.

Thanks, I look forward to your input everyone!

Since having a 7.5t horse lorry that is limited to 56mph and has a large stopping distance you do find trying to keep a safe bubble is very challenging, It is easy to end up with an articulated lorry up your chuff and no power to overtake either…then some Wally chops in right in front of you in a tiny car and steals your braking zone.

When in my car I spend a lot more time giving lorries more space.

[911hope]

PonderingColin said:

Yesterday I attended a speed awareness course on Zoom. Really interesting, actually, and feels like it should be part of driver training in the first place to be honest. The speed differentials section was fairly eye opening.

However, there was a section about maintaining 'your safety bubble', which I struggled a bit with. The idea is that you are aiming to keep a safe stopping distance in front of you, and also behind. The suggestion is that if someone behind you isn't respecting that space (maybe properly tailgating you, but more likely just leaving less of a gap than would be required for the safety bubble) then you should slow down to increase the gap in front of you. As I understand it the idea is this allows you to slow down more gently in an emergency, thus reducing the stopping distance required for the car behind you.

Now. I live in a city, and whenever I have tried this (and I gave it another try today on my commute up the motorway) it's futile, because any gap left in front of you is immediately filled, and you have to reduce speed even further to create your 'bubble' again. Repeat until funny. Before too long you are travelling too slowly causing more issues, or have given in to make some progress. The reality is in fact that you can't even leave a sensible space in front of you never mind compensating for the tailgater, because even that will be filled.

So although it's the accepted system it basically doesn't work. On that basis I was wondering whether there was any more realistic advice from the advanced drivers on here? I'm keen to improve my driving - I've been looking at RoSPA - but this is one thing I can't get my head round in the real world.

Thanks, I look forward to your input everyone!

The reality is that the tailgater will think you are goading them, by slowing to leave a bigger gap in front. A minority will back off but most will get more aggressive ,or just remain stupid, with the same gap.

The only sensible approach is the let the tailgater past and reduce your risk. It is annoying to do so, because it rewards and encourages the tailgater's behaviour.

In reality, they will gain nothing on their journey time and you will lose nothing on your journey.

[BlindedByTheLights]

Near on impossible to leave a decent gap these days as it just gets filled. Fortunately my car has the adaptive radar cruise so it’s not such an issue. People just do not give themselves space which gives them time.

[PhilAsia]

vonhosen said:

PonderingColin said:

Yesterday I attended a speed awareness course on Zoom. Really interesting, actually, and feels like it should be part of driver training in the first place to be honest. The speed differentials section was fairly eye opening.

However, there was a section about maintaining 'your safety bubble', which I struggled a bit with. The idea is that you are aiming to keep a safe stopping distance in front of you, and also behind. The suggestion is that if someone behind you isn't respecting that space (maybe properly tailgating you, but more likely just leaving less of a gap than would be required for the safety bubble) then you should slow down to increase the gap in front of you. As I understand it the idea is this allows you to slow down more gently in an emergency, thus reducing the stopping distance required for the car behind you.

Now. I live in a city, and whenever I have tried this (and I gave it another try today on my commute up the motorway) it's futile, because any gap left in front of you is immediately filled, and you have to reduce speed even further to create your 'bubble' again. Repeat until funny. Before too long you are travelling too slowly causing more issues, or have given in to make some progress. The reality is in fact that you can't even leave a sensible space in front of you never mind compensating for the tailgater, because even that will be filled.

So although it's the accepted system it basically doesn't work. On that basis I was wondering whether there was any more realistic advice from the advanced drivers on here? I'm keen to improve my driving - I've been looking at RoSPA - but this is one thing I can't get my head round in the real world.

Thanks, I look forward to your input everyone!

If someone is determined to get into the gap in front of you then they'll get into it.
The only way you can stop them is to leave a gap smaller than the length of their vehicle & that's not tenable.
In reality when cars do get into the gap in front of you, there will be other cars ahead of them leaving the line of traffic you are in too.

Instead of worrying about vehicles filling the safe space you leave in front of you, carry out an experiment.
The regular familiar journeys you complete you will have a good idea how long they tend to take.
Instead of worrying about the vehicles that do fit into the space you do leave in front, leave the larger space & monitor what the actual effect is on the time it takes you to complete the regular familiar journeys you make.
I think you'll find any difference (if there is one) is so small as to not worry about, but you'll find the benefits in the reduction of stress experienced (once you let go of others entering that space as an emotional trigger) & the increase space, visibility & time aiding smooth running, to outweigh any (perceived) minor time losses.

If you increase the distance in front to say 3 seconds then a driver fills that gap, then just ease back to three seconds again. YOU ONLY LOSE THREE (3) SECONDS (caps to indicate how minimal the loss is, not shouting...). If you do this 20 times, you lose ONE minute journey time.

Edited by PhilAsia on Sunday 18th September 10:19

[Magnum 475]

I've worked on this principle for years - my driving instructor covered it in the 80s when I was preparing for my L test. He said things like:

Yes, if the driver crashes into the back of you, it's their fault. But it still hurts, and it's still inconvenient having your car totalled

You can't control how close someone drives to the back of you, but you can create more space to stop more slowly if you need to

The folks driving into the space in front of you may be annoying, but not as annoying as getting hit up the arse by an idiot


I wonder if I was just lucky in that the guy who taught me was a particularly good instructor who went beyond just the basics of the L test?

[Pica-Pica]

Yes, still increase the gap in front, and furthermore, observe the gap in front of the car in front. In other words, anticipate and observe.

As said, the time lost on all your future journeys will never equal the pain and cost in time and money of a rear end collision.

[Dr Jekyll]

PhilAsia said:

If you increase the distance in front to say 3 seconds then a driver fills that gap, then just ease back to three seconds again. YOU ONLY LOSE THREE (3) SECONDS (caps to indicate how minimal the loss is, not shouting...). If you do this 20 times, you lose ONE minute journey time.

+1

You might slow down slightly to open the gap up, but then you can generally resume your original speed.

[PhilAsia]

Magnum 475 said:

I've worked on this principle for years - my driving instructor covered it in the 80s when I was preparing for my L test. He said things like:

Yes, if the driver crashes into the back of you, it's their fault. But it still hurts, and it's still inconvenient having your car totalled

You can't control how close someone drives to the back of you, but you can create more space to stop more slowly if you need to

The folks driving into the space in front of you may be annoying, but not as annoying as getting hit up the arse by an idiot


I wonder if I was just lucky in that the guy who taught me was a particularly good instructor who went beyond just the basics of the L test?

On one occasion I was returning to London from Exeter in torrential rain and extremely heavy traffic. For 10 miles I was in lane 3 and unable to return to lane 2 as there was never a safe gap to do so. The reason I was keen to get to lane 2 was because there was a brand new black Astra GTE close enough to the rear of my Miami blue, Peugeot XSi, that I could see the colour of his passenger's nail varnish.

During the ten miles I was continuously flashed and gesticulated to, but had no other course of action than to gently increase the gap to the vehicles in front to around 4-6 seconds depending on the severity of the downpour. I can only assume the "gentleman" driving could not read as all my school vehicles had "Approved Motorway Instructor" decals across the back hatch, in yellow 2/3" high letters and picked out in black.

Anyway, I took the first safe opportunity to let my new "close" friend through, ignoring their side window tantrums. The next vehicle in lane 3 allowed me back out to resume my journey at a safe distance behind the Astra, but followed without the same pressure.

Five miles further on, the six vehicles in front all Ike and Tina Concertina'd each other and I and the following sea of vehicles all pulled up without drama.

I got out to see if everyone was OK and, as I approached the Astra the female passenger said defensively, "we know, we know...". She did not know I had no intention to engage with them to be honest, as apart from making sure everyone was safe, their car was a write off and, more importantly, I was reflecting on how many hundreds of thousands of miles I had travelled without witnessing a pile-up first hand and how effective a (sometimes seemingly huge) safe following distance is - not only for keeping the frontal area the same shape, but also to assist in keeping those safe behind!

Edited by PhilAsia on Wednesday 21st September 14:53

[Pica-Pica]

PhilAsia said:

On one occasion I was returning to London from Exeter in torrential rain and extremely heavy traffic. For 10 miles I was in lane 3 and unable to return to lane 2 as there was never a safe gap to do so. The reason I was keen to get to lane 2 was because there was a brand new black Astra GTE close enough to the rear of my Miami blue, Peugeot XSi, that I could see the colour of his passenger's nail varnish.

During the ten miles I was continuously flashed and gesticulated to, but had no other course of action than to gently increase the gap to the vehicles in front to around 4-6 seconds depending on the severity of the downpour. I can only assume the "gentleman" driving could not read as all my school vehicles had "Approved Motorway Instructor" decals across the back hatch, in yellow 2/3" high letters and picked out in black.

Anyway, I took the first safe opportunity to let my new "close" friend through, ignoring their side window tantrums. The next vehicle in lane 3 allowed me back out to resume my journey at a safe distance behind the Astra, but followed without the same pressure.

Five miles further on, the six vehicles in front all Ike and Tina Concertina'd each other and I and the following sea of vehicles all pulled up without drama.

I got out to see if everyone was OK and, as I approached the Astra the female passenger said defensively, "we know, we know...". She did not know I had no intention to engage with them to be honest, as apart from making sure everyone was safe, their car was a write off and, more importantly, I was reflecting on how many hundreds of thousands of miles I had travelled without witnessing a pile-up first hand and how effective a (sometimes seemingly huge) safe following distance is - not only for keeping the frontal area the same shape, but also to assist in keeping those safe behind!



If I am overtaking in the right hand lane on a motorway at the speed limit, and there is no gap to pull left, and a car approaches fast, I put my right indicator on to indicate I am overtaking, and am aware of their presence. It seems to work, mainly because any car that approaches at high speed is generally a pretty decent fast car, and driven by a decent driver.

Edited by PhilAsia on Wednesday 21st September 14:53

[PhilAsia]

Pica-Pica said:

PhilAsia said:

On one occasion I was returning to London from Exeter in torrential rain and extremely heavy traffic. For 10 miles I was in lane 3 and unable to return to lane 2 as there was never a safe gap to do so. The reason I was keen to get to lane 2 was because there was a brand new black Astra GTE close enough to the rear of my Miami blue, Peugeot XSi, that I could see the colour of his passenger's nail varnish.

During the ten miles I was continuously flashed and gesticulated to, but had no other course of action than to gently increase the gap to the vehicles in front to around 4-6 seconds depending on the severity of the downpour. I can only assume the "gentleman" driving could not read as all my school vehicles had "Approved Motorway Instructor" decals across the back hatch, in yellow 2/3" high letters and picked out in black.

Anyway, I took the first safe opportunity to let my new "close" friend through, ignoring their side window tantrums. The next vehicle in lane 3 allowed me back out to resume my journey at a safe distance behind the Astra, but followed without the same pressure.

Five miles further on, the six vehicles in front all Ike and Tina Concertina'd each other and I and the following sea of vehicles all pulled up without drama.

I got out to see if everyone was OK and, as I approached the Astra the female passenger said defensively, "we know, we know...". She did not know I had no intention to engage with them to be honest, as apart from making sure everyone was safe, their car was a write off and, more importantly, I was reflecting on how many hundreds of thousands of miles I had travelled without witnessing a pile-up first hand and how effective a (sometimes seemingly huge) safe following distance is - not only for keeping the frontal area the same shape, but also to assist in keeping those safe behind!



If I am overtaking in the right hand lane on a motorway at the speed limit, and there is no gap to pull left, and a car approaches fast, I put my right indicator on to indicate I am overtaking, and am aware of their presence. It seems to work, mainly because any car that approaches at high speed is generally a pretty decent fast car, and driven by a decent driver.

Edited by PhilAsia on Wednesday 21st September 14:53

The motorway out of Exeter was absolutely chock full of traffic. The Astra was travelling at the same speed as everyone, just aggressively tailgaiting. I had no opportunity to get out of his way for about ten miles as the traffic was that heavy in all lanes.

[911hope]

Pica-Pica said:

PhilAsia said:

It seems to work, mainly because any car that approaches at high speed is generally a pretty decent fast car, and driven by a decent driver.

Edited by PhilAsia on Wednesday 21st September 14:53

Not sure who wrote this as the quote may have been mangled.

But does someone genuinely believe such a thing?

A car charging up to the back of slower traffic is a sign of a good driver? Really?

[Toltec]

911hope said:

Pica-Pica said:

PhilAsia said:

It seems to work, mainly because any car that approaches at high speed is generally a pretty decent fast car, and driven by a decent driver.

Edited by PhilAsia on Wednesday 21st September 14:53

Not sure who wrote this as the quote may have been mangled.

But does someone genuinely believe such a thing?

A car charging up to the back of slower traffic is a sign of a good driver? Really?

Not especially, though sometimes it is the slower traffic that moved lane into the path of the faster car without looking properly. Then again you should always be looking for vehicles that are likely to be moving into the lane you are using and setting a closing speed appropriately.

To the OP, bear in mind your safety buble does not have to be confined to the space immediately between the leading and trailing vehicle. If you can see several vehicles ahead you can back off and start to brake gradually as you see a brake light wave head towards you giving the driver behind time to notice too. If you have a large vehicle in front which obscures your view then obviously this will not work. You also need to pay attention to the lanes either side of you as if they have a heavy braking event there is a chance someone may swap lane in front of you. Finally worth keeping an eye on the space either side and behind as it may be better to do a lane swap and then brake, particularly useful when a braking event happens just as someone has pulled into your braking gap.

[PhilAsia]

Toltec said:

911hope said:

Pica-Pica said:

PhilAsia said:

It seems to work, mainly because any car that approaches at high speed is generally a pretty decent fast car, and driven by a decent driver.

Edited by PhilAsia on Wednesday 21st September 14:53

Not sure who wrote this as the quote may have been mangled.

But does someone genuinely believe such a thing?

A car charging up to the back of slower traffic is a sign of a good driver? Really?

Not especially, though sometimes it is the slower traffic that moved lane into the path of the faster car without looking properly. Then again you should always be looking for vehicles that are likely to be moving into the lane you are using and setting a closing speed appropriately.

To the OP, bear in mind your safety buble does not have to be confined to the space immediately between the leading and trailing vehicle. If you can see several vehicles ahead you can back off and start to brake gradually as you see a brake light wave head towards you giving the driver behind time to notice too. If you have a large vehicle in front which obscures your view then obviously this will not work. You also need to pay attention to the lanes either side of you as if they have a heavy braking event there is a chance someone may swap lane in front of you. Finally worth keeping an eye on the space either side and behind as it may be better to do a lane swap and then brake, particularly useful when a braking event happens just as someone has pulled into your braking gap.

That was a PicaPica quote in response to mine..

[911hope]

"It seems to work, mainly because any car that approaches at high speed is generally a pretty decent fast car, and driven by a decent driver. "

PhilAsia said:

That was a PicaPica quote in response to mine..

I wonder if PicaPica would like to explain the thinking behind it?

[Snow and Rocks]

As others have said, the time lost by the odd vehicle moving into your braking distance is negligible. I drove from Dover to Aberdeenshire recently through some pretty heavy traffic at times and I can only remember it happening a couple of times in 12+ hours and 600 miles. It's largely a psychological issue about the other car "cutting in front".

[Pica-Pica]

911hope said:

"It seems to work, mainly because any car that approaches at high speed is generally a pretty decent fast car, and driven by a decent driver. "

PhilAsia said:

That was a PicaPica quote in response to mine..

I wonder if PicaPica would like to explain the thinking behind it?

Firstly I never wrote ‘charging up to the back of slower traffic’.
I said ‘a car approaching at high speed’.
There is no ‘thinking behind this’, it is stating my experience.which is:
If I am established in the right hand lane at the speed limit and overtaking slower vehicles, and in the distance I notice a car is now approaching at a high speed (think of 90+). Then I will indicate to that car’s driver, by a right hand indicator, that I am established and in the process of overtaking. At this stage the car will have eased off to maintain a sufficiently safe gap (that is what I meant by a decent driver, and the fact that they have a decent car, is some indication that they take some pride in their car and their driving). The car will then maintain a safe distance, until I can complete my overtake and I can move left to let them pass and resume whatever speed they wish.

I have added additional bracketed words to expand on my original post.
Their approach at high speed does NOT mean that I have failed to notice them (I am already established in the right hand lane, before their appearance). Additionally, I am NOT talking about tailgaters either. I am talking about rapid cars who can re-establish their desired speed, but recognise that they do not intend to ‘bully’ their way through, out of consideration to other motorists.

[PhilAsia]

Pica-Pica said:

911hope said:

"It seems to work, mainly because any car that approaches at high speed is generally a pretty decent fast car, and driven by a decent driver. "

PhilAsia said:

That was a PicaPica quote in response to mine..

I wonder if PicaPica would like to explain the thinking behind it?

Firstly I never wrote ‘charging up to the back of slower traffic’.
I said ‘a car approaching at high speed’.
There is no ‘thinking behind this’, it is stating my experience.which is:
If I am established in the right hand lane at the speed limit and overtaking slower vehicles, and in the distance I notice a car is now approaching at a high speed (think of 90+). Then I will indicate to that car’s driver, by a right hand indicator, that I am established and in the process of overtaking. At this stage the car will have eased off to maintain a sufficiently safe gap (that is what I meant by a decent driver, and the fact that they have a decent car, is some indication that they take some pride in their car and their driving). The car will then maintain a safe distance, until I can complete my overtake and I can move left to let them pass and resume whatever speed they wish.

I have added additional bracketed words to expand on my original post.
Their approach at high speed does NOT mean that I have failed to notice them (I am already established in the right hand lane, before their appearance). Additionally, I am NOT talking about tailgaters either. I am talking about rapid cars who can re-establish their desired speed, but recognise that they do not intend to ‘bully’ their way through, out of consideration to other motorists.

Maybe I have missed something, but surely being in the furthest overtaking lane available does not require a signal when clearly in lane and in the process of overtaking?

[PhilAsia]

Snow and Rocks said:

As others have said, the time lost by the odd vehicle moving into your braking distance is negligible. I drove from Dover to Aberdeenshire recently through some pretty heavy traffic at times and I can only remember it happening a couple of times in 12+ hours and 600 miles. It's largely a psychological issue about the other car "cutting in front".

.....and generally the "body language" of the car gives an indication of what to prepare for, so the "cutting in front" reaction is generally a "I don't want you to cut in front because *insert reason here*...." unnecessary though that can be (perhaps) easily resolved by being cognisant that they only lose 3 seconds of journey time.