Need a rant - f**king motorists and "invisible" cyclists

[a11y_m]

All I'm going to do is rant so don't read on if you don't want to...

What the f**k is it with some motorists and not giving cyclists a f**king inch? I've just had my worst 2 days of commuting in the 4 years of so of daily cycling to/from work. Last night being knocked off by a van who decided to turn left while he was still overtaking me (luckily no injury/damage). And this morning, another f**king white van following a car that was overtaking me on a downhill (me doing at least 25mph in a 30mph limit) then discovering the car in front wasn't actually going that quickly, and pulling in on me regardless. And that's not including all the usual f**ktards who just don't give enough space when passing you. For f**ks sake, I'm ready to give up on commuting by bike as it's just not f**king worth it.

I mean, what else can I do? Both were in daylight (which is making me fear the forthcoming dark winter commutes even more):
- it was raining on both journeys so I had both my rear LEDs on (one steady, one flashing)
- I wear a bright blue jacket for visibility
- I use a fluoro yellow rucsac cover with reflective bits
- I've read my Cyclecraft book, I DON'T ride in the gutter
- I've modified my route repeatedly and avoid main roads whenever possible

Honestly, I'm ready to quit this f**king game.

Rant over. Sorry, I'm having a bad enough time at work without sh*te like this!

[Mars]

You need some evidence. Get a helmet camera. I think if I commuted by bike, I would.

[a11y_m]

Mars said:

You need some evidence. Get a helmet camera. I think if I commuted by bike, I would.

I do (or did) but it made no difference when I was tapped by a vehicle earlier this year. Funnily enough after last night's incident I started using it this morning and recorded the van pulling in on me - no point involving the police (from my experiences at least, there's not point in them taking it further unless I'm injured; that was their words last time) but I'll be calling Initial (the company whose van it was) once I've downloaded the video.

Annoyingly this has put me in a bad mood - the rant has helped though, perhaps I'll get through the morning without killing someone now

[The Walrus]

bds some people and since the dark has come in I am even more invisible.

Dont let it get you down, you have to plan for everyone being an idiot and as you most likely have found out even that does not always get you out of trouble.

Mark it up as just a bad run take stock and try and think how you can avoid it in future.

On my commute yesterday I was gradually getting further and further out from the kerb to deter people getting very close, too the point at one stage I was in the middle of the road, I am not the fastest rider out there but I was not hanging about and the roads at the time had heavy traffic that was stop start so I was not holding people up that much !

[stu67]

I know I'll get knocked but how about slow down

I cycle into the city each day, takes about 45 mins from where I am and used to try to go as fast as possible with the obvious consequences. After the last off I decided if I didn't slow down I'd have to stop commuting by bike. I find it much more enjoyable now, takes an extra 10-15 mins but I'm much more relaxed when I get in. I always assume that every motorist is out to kill me but have now got time to deal with the situation. To be honest I really think that the majority of car / van drivers don't realise that you can go as fast as you do on a bike.

Oh and I ride in the middle of the road!

[a11y_m]

The Walrus said:

On my commute yesterday I was gradually getting further and further out from the kerb to deter people getting very close, too the point at one stage I was in the middle of the road

Funnily enough I found myself doing that last night after I'd picked myself up. Motorists afterwards probably thought I was just being "another t**t cyclist", but I was initially very shaken then very angry with drivers in general after it'd happened and this was the effect. I'd hoped this morning would be back to a normal commute but so much for that!

To be fair, incidents on my commute ARE few and far between - this has just been my bad luck to have two bad incidents in two consecutive commutes.

[a11y_m]

stu67 said:

I know I'll get knocked but how about slow down

I can see your logic there and perhaps would've helped me this morning. But on the other hand, no matter what your speed is there's always going to be someone who doesn't gauge your speed correctly. Last night's incident wasn;t particularly high speed - I was probably travelling at a steady 15mph before it happened - but I do see your point.

[The Walrus]

a11y_m said:

The Walrus said:

On my commute yesterday I was gradually getting further and further out from the kerb to deter people getting very close, too the point at one stage I was in the middle of the road

Funnily enough I found myself doing that last night after I'd picked myself up. Motorists afterwards probably thought I was just being "another t**t cyclist", but I was initially very shaken then very angry with drivers in general after it'd happened and this was the effect. I'd hoped this morning would be back to a normal commute but so much for that!

To be fair, incidents on my commute ARE few and far between - this has just been my bad luck to have two bad incidents in two consecutive commutes.

Exactly if you had been a more aggresive rider you could not be talking to us now so take thanks in the fact that you are using your cycling skills and intiution and keep enjoying what you are doing.

[jagracer]

a11y_m said:

All I'm going to do is rant so don't read on if you don't want to...

What the f**k is it with some motorists and not giving cyclists a f**king inch? I've just had my worst 2 days of commuting in the 4 years of so of daily cycling to/from work. Last night being knocked off by a van who decided to turn left while he was still overtaking me (luckily no injury/damage). And this morning, another f**king white van following a car that was overtaking me on a downhill (me doing at least 25mph in a 30mph limit) then discovering the car in front wasn't actually going that quickly, and pulling in on me regardless. And that's not including all the usual f**ktards who just don't give enough space when passing you. For f**ks sake, I'm ready to give up on commuting by bike as it's just not f**king worth it.

I mean, what else can I do? Both were in daylight (which is making me fear the forthcoming dark winter commutes even more):
- it was raining on both journeys so I had both my rear LEDs on (one steady, one flashing)
- I wear a bright blue jacket for visibility
- I use a fluoro yellow rucsac cover with reflective bits
- I've read my Cyclecraft book, I DON'T ride in the gutter
- I've modified my route repeatedly and avoid main roads whenever possible

Honestly, I'm ready to quit this f**king game.

Rant over. Sorry, I'm having a bad enough time at work without sh*te like this!

A blue jacket is less than useless as is the rucksack. The jacket will blend in with surroundings especially in the wet or at night and the rucksack will not always reflect in the correct direction, as a truck driver sitting higher up than most I find the rucksack things aren't very visible.
Do you have decent lights and you should wear a proper hi viz jacket or vest and even something reflective on your legs. A lot of cyclist I see don't use lights and don't wear anything reflective so are asking for trouble.
As for the white van men causing you grief, what do you expect, they are white van men and most can't drive anyway especially the builder variety.
From my point of view please also be aware that trucks have blind spots to the front as well as the rear. Turning right out of a side road I nearly wiped a cyclist out a few weeks ago as he was hidden behind my mirrors at such an angle I didn't see him until it was almost too late and although I was in the wrong, being dead or injured and in the right doesn't help you so you need to be on the lookout as well.

[NitroNick]

I don't understand how people commute by bike after having incidences like this.
A few years back I was out training on my bike when a lorry which was passing me pulled across and pushed me into the ditch, the ditch was banked so I hit it and bounced back into the road.
My head hit the ground and I was lying still almost in the middle of the road.
About 7 or 8 cars pulled out around me and continued on their merry fking journey. The fking idiots! Its actually getting me angry now. Not one person stopped to see if I was alright.
How the fk could you fking drive around someone who was knocked off their bike and is lying in the middle of the road.
I didn't touch my road bike for over a year after that. I'm over it now.

[a11y_m]

jagracer said:

A blue jacket is less than useless as is the rucksack. The jacket will blend in with surroundings especially in the wet or at night and the rucksack will not always reflect in the correct direction, as a truck driver sitting higher up than most I find the rucksack things aren't very visible.
Do you have decent lights and you should wear a proper hi viz jacket or vest and even something reflective on your legs. A lot of cyclist I see don't use lights and don't wear anything reflective so are asking for trouble.
As for the white van men causing you grief, what do you expect, they are white van men and most can't drive anyway especially the builder variety.
From my point of view please also be aware that trucks have blind spots to the front as well as the rear. Turning right out of a side road I nearly wiped a cyclist out a few weeks ago as he was hidden behind my mirrors at such an angle I didn't see him until it was almost too late and although I was in the wrong, being dead or injured and in the right doesn't help you so you need to be on the lookout as well.

Thanks for your suggestions, and I agree a lot of cyclists just don't help themselves, but I don't class myself as one of those. I don't agree with you about the blue jacket blending in though: it's been proven that fluoro yellow alone can also blend in particularly in bright daylight, hence my contrast of wearing a bright blue (and I do mean bright) with the fluoro yellow/reflective rucsac cover (which ARE proven to work). I welcome any suggestions to improve my visibility though.

Both rear lights are 1/2 watt Smart LEDs which are VERY good. Flashing is more attention grabbing but isn't legal, so I go a half-way option with one on steady and the other on flashing.

My shoes have reflective bits on them, and my waterproof socks are embarrassingly fluoro yellow ones. Reflectiveness wouldn't have helped last night as it was daylight and although it was raining, not many cars (and certainly not this van) had lights on.

Welcome your comments as a lorry driver, although I'd have thought my rucsac cover which isn't flat but curves/tapers towards the top, reflects at several angles. And don't worry, I'm not one of those death-wish cyclists who put themselves in life-threatening positions relative to large vehicles! I always look for eye contact with drivers waiting to pull out of side roads or junctions too.

[neilski]

I've been knocked down on my way in to work once (by a white van no less ) and while I was lying there in the road not one car stopped to see if I was ok and people were actually tooting their horns at me to move. s!

[sjg]

a11y_m said:

stu67 said:

I know I'll get knocked but how about slow down

I can see your logic there and perhaps would've helped me this morning. But on the other hand, no matter what your speed is there's always going to be someone who doesn't gauge your speed correctly. Last night's incident wasn;t particularly high speed - I was probably travelling at a steady 15mph before it happened - but I do see your point.

There was a principle taught to me by my motorcycle instructor of not compromising safety for correct position. It's no good being "right" if it puts you in a more dangerous place. Cyclists are often taught about riding assertively, primary position, etc but sometimes you have to judge when to slow down or move to work around someone else's mistakes or ineptitude. Just as with driving, recognising hazards before they become threatening is a big part of the skillset you need. Way too many cyclists (and drivers) I see just don't see or process the problem until they're right on top of it and leave themselves no time to do anything about it.

I won't cast judgement on your accident with the van, but if I'm overtaken by bigger, longer vehicles (which tend not to have the pace to overtake quickly anyway) I'd rather freewheel for a few seconds, maybe drag a brake slightly and get away from the inside of them so the overtake is out of the way sooner and I'm in clear traffic again. It's exactly the same reason you don't want to sit in someone's blind-spot when in lanes of traffic or on the motorway - there's no reason to put yourself in that position when you could put yourself in a safer one.

[jagracer]

a11y_m said:

jagracer said:

A blue jacket is less than useless as is the rucksack. The jacket will blend in with surroundings especially in the wet or at night and the rucksack will not always reflect in the correct direction, as a truck driver sitting higher up than most I find the rucksack things aren't very visible.
Do you have decent lights and you should wear a proper hi viz jacket or vest and even something reflective on your legs. A lot of cyclist I see don't use lights and don't wear anything reflective so are asking for trouble.
As for the white van men causing you grief, what do you expect, they are white van men and most can't drive anyway especially the builder variety.
From my point of view please also be aware that trucks have blind spots to the front as well as the rear. Turning right out of a side road I nearly wiped a cyclist out a few weeks ago as he was hidden behind my mirrors at such an angle I didn't see him until it was almost too late and although I was in the wrong, being dead or injured and in the right doesn't help you so you need to be on the lookout as well.

Thanks for your suggestions, and I agree a lot of cyclists just don't help themselves, but I don't class myself as one of those. I don't agree with you about the blue jacket blending in though: it's been proven that fluoro yellow alone can also blend in particularly in bright daylight, hence my contrast of wearing a bright blue (and I do mean bright) with the fluoro yellow/reflective rucsac cover (which ARE proven to work). I welcome any suggestions to improve my visibility though.

Both rear lights are 1/2 watt Smart LEDs which are VERY good. Flashing is more attention grabbing but isn't legal, so I go a half-way option with one on steady and the other on flashing.

My shoes have reflective bits on them, and my waterproof socks are embarrassingly fluoro yellow ones. Reflectiveness wouldn't have helped last night as it was daylight and although it was raining, not many cars (and certainly not this van) had lights on.

Welcome your comments as a lorry driver, although I'd have thought my rucsac cover which isn't flat but curves/tapers towards the top, reflects at several angles. And don't worry, I'm not one of those death-wish cyclists who put themselves in life-threatening positions relative to large vehicles! I always look for eye contact with drivers waiting to pull out of side roads or junctions too.

There is a problem with hi viz at night where there are orange street lamps making them almost invisible. I think as drivers vs cyclists we could argue all day, there are good, bad and dangerous in both sectors but as cyclists you are the ones who will get hurt physically so as I said it's no use being in the right but dead, just take care.
I tried cycling purely as a keep fit thing (a fair weather cyclist as well) but gave up after a short while as I felt it was too dangerous due to the nobs that run too close or just don't see you at all.

[a11y_m]

jagracer said:

There is a problem with hi viz at night where there are orange street lamps making them almost invisible. I think as drivers vs cyclists we could argue all day, there are good, bad and dangerous in both sectors but as cyclists you are the ones who will get hurt physically so as I said it's no use being in the right but dead, just take care.
I tried cycling purely as a keep fit thing (a fair weather cyclist as well) but gave up after a short while as I felt it was too dangerous due to the nobs that run too close or just don't see you at all.

Yep, the oldest orange-colour street lamps are terrible for that, hence the reflectiveness taking over. Completely agree with "no use being in the right but dead" - unfortunately not every cyclist/motorcyclist thinks about that.

I'm purely a commuting cyclist if I'm on tarmac, i.e. I don't cycle on the road for fun! Primarily I'm a MTBer as my nerves couldn't handle a road ride - I tried cycling in a bunch before but even then the attitude and behaviour of some of the other cyclists put me off. I know they're not all like that, but even still these were the "experienced" roadies.

Ah well, bring on 4.30pm and the commute home. I'm gradually going from a "let the battle commence you f**kers" to a "Let's just get on with it" mood

[Ken Sington]

sjg said:

I won't cast judgement on your accident with the van, but if I'm overtaken by bigger, longer vehicles (which tend not to have the pace to overtake quickly anyway) I'd rather freewheel for a few seconds, maybe drag a brake slightly and get away from the inside of them so the overtake is out of the way sooner and I'm in clear traffic again. It's exactly the same reason you don't want to sit in someone's blind-spot when in lanes of traffic or on the motorway - there's no reason to put yourself in that position when you could put yourself in a safer one.

This ^^^^^^^^^^ No point in being the most righteous man in the cemetery

[Gooby]

Spare a thought for considerate motorists. I got stuck behind a bike this morning, I was in the lotus so the van had a view over me and could see why I was going slowly, even in the lotus I could not have overtaken without getting too close to the cyclist so I patiently sat behind her. The tt in the white van behind me sat on my bumper and just lent on the horn revving his engine!

I was about to just stop dead in the road and ask what his problem was when a cop car went the other way and he shut up. He actually knew he was wrong legally and morally!

I had the roof off the car and a few mins down the road pulled into a parking space (it seemed he wanted that space, the last one!) He went past slowly giving me a "look", I stuck my tongue in my bottom lip and gave him the "Joey Deacon" as he went by - childish but very satisfying

[Parrot of Doom]

Have you noticed how balanced the answers are in this thread, compared to similar threads in GG complaining about "fecking cyclists"?

OP, put it down to bad luck. You know if you don't cycle for a day your legs will be itching to get back on the pedals asap. If you don't cycle for a week, you'll start getting fat and you won't want to cycle.

[mybrainhurts]

OP, you don't understand...

They're trying to kill you, just incompetent...

[shakotan]

In polar contrast, I had some tt ride up the inside of me whilst I was indicating left and match my speed as I prepared to turn. I leant on the horn until he finally got the idea and applied his brakes so I could turn in front of him.