Turbo/SC track car - advice sought

Turbo/SC track car - advice sought

Author
Discussion

chris7676

Original Poster:

2,685 posts

226 months

Friday 6th March 2009
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Hi, I'm seriously considering getting an MX5 with a turbo or supercharger mostly for track and road fun. Which is generally regarded as more suitable - the turbo or SC? Also should I be looking at MK1 or MK2?

Herman Toothrot

6,702 posts

204 months

Friday 6th March 2009
quotequote all
Can of worms.

The man with the GT2860RS turbo strapped on says turbos biggrinwink

I bet the Chaps with MP62's strapped on will say Superchargers.

Supercharger the build of powers more progressive, turbo its more fierce.

I want a track car to be fun so fierce every time biggrin

p.s. those that talk about turbos and lag have not driven or been in a well setup turbo. One of the most common things I hear after giving passenger rides is "I thought that big turbo would be really laggy, but I didn't notice any lag at all".

Munter

31,326 posts

247 months

Friday 6th March 2009
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Not sure if the price is good.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/905959.htm

Just buy that.

Chris71

21,548 posts

248 months

Friday 6th March 2009
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I bumped into the guy who runs Flyin Miata a few months back and by way of small torque I asked this question. He was definitely a turbo man and I guess he's ridden in more quick MX5s than most.

chris7676

Original Poster:

2,685 posts

226 months

Friday 6th March 2009
quotequote all
Thanks, seen that advert, surely that price is NOT good at all. There is the MK2 turbo that is cheaper.

Herman Toothrot

6,702 posts

204 months

Friday 6th March 2009
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Its an exceptionally well cared for car from a long term MX5 forum member (he's not selling it), new owner is. Its a top price but to build a simliar car will cost much more.

smiles1

544 posts

228 months

Friday 6th March 2009
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Herman Toothrot said:
p.s. those that talk about turbos and lag have not driven or been in a well setup turbo. One of the most common things I hear after giving passenger rides is "I thought that big turbo would be really laggy, but I didn't notice any lag at all".
I can vouch for that comment, as those exact words came from my mouth at the last trackday!

Herman Toothrot

6,702 posts

204 months

Friday 6th March 2009
quotequote all
smiles1 said:
Herman Toothrot said:
p.s. those that talk about turbos and lag have not driven or been in a well setup turbo. One of the most common things I hear after giving passenger rides is "I thought that big turbo would be really laggy, but I didn't notice any lag at all".
I can vouch for that comment, as those exact words came from my mouth at the last trackday!
I think thats what it suprises people with the most, lack of lag biggrin

vid of Abingdon, you just go out of frame as you spin then I catch you making clouds of tyre smoke (about 3/4s of way through 12 min vid) biggrin

http://www.steve-bowen.com/Eunos/Abingdon270209.wm...

Edited by Herman Toothrot on Friday 6th March 21:02

MX-5 Lazza

7,953 posts

225 months

Friday 6th March 2009
quotequote all
My opinion is that it depends on your budget.
If you only have enough for a very basic setup then I'd say SC is better as it's a simple bolt-on that gives a good improvement in torque & power across the full rev range whereas a cheap turbo will have no more power but will suffer lag.

To improve the turbo you need to replace the exhaust system with free flowing items which help the turbo to spin up at lower revs.

In the middle budget it's pretty even. You'd get better throttle response from an SC but more torque from the turbo so it depends on your driving style as much as anything else.

At the top end the turbo probably has the advantage as lag can be all but eliminated and you will always have more torque than is available from SC.

Personally I prefer the feel of SC - I like the instant throttle response. Others prefer the rush of torque you get from a turbo. I also prefer the sound of an SC - I love the scream of a supercharger whereas I'd be embarrassed by a dump-valve going off all the time.

chris7676

Original Poster:

2,685 posts

226 months

Saturday 7th March 2009
quotequote all
Thanks for the input. I'm not looking to convert but buy a car with the conversion done (obviously works chepest). Had a MK1 Eunos before (NA) so would also like to know if there are significat differences between MK1 and MK2 in general?

therevday

374 posts

215 months

Saturday 7th March 2009
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Chris I have been trying to email you.I may have just what you are looking for!yum

smiles1

544 posts

228 months

Saturday 7th March 2009
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Herman Toothrot said:
smiles1 said:
Herman Toothrot said:
p.s. those that talk about turbos and lag have not driven or been in a well setup turbo. One of the most common things I hear after giving passenger rides is "I thought that big turbo would be really laggy, but I didn't notice any lag at all".
I can vouch for that comment, as those exact words came from my mouth at the last trackday!
I think thats what it suprises people with the most, lack of lag biggrin

vid of Abingdon, you just go out of frame as you spin then I catch you making clouds of tyre smoke (about 3/4s of way through 12 min vid) biggrin

http://www.steve-bowen.com/Eunos/Abingdon270209.wm...

Edited by Herman Toothrot on Friday 6th March 21:02
Great video! Cheers mate smile

OnlyMX5ives

1,142 posts

198 months

Saturday 7th March 2009
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My take is Mk1's are more fun, Mk2's are more refined.

I prefer SC's as they drive like its got a bigger engine but you can get more power, cheaper with a turbo.

I'm building a turbo'd track car at the minute but only because I got the turbo'd donor cheap.

I deal in them and my own car is an SC'd Mk1.

Really its simply a case of see what comes up and go and try them.

I'm soon selling a 250bhp FM2 but its too nice to be a track car IMO.

Cafe Racer

166 posts

191 months

Sunday 8th March 2009
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OnlyMX5ives said:
I'm soon selling a 250bhp FM2 but its too nice to be a track car IMO.
For how much?

OnlyMX5ives

1,142 posts

198 months

Sunday 8th March 2009
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£5995 1996 1.8 FM2 with high ratio LSD and hardtop plus loads of other stuff in mercedes met. blue.

Once I've got it ready I'll stick an ad in the classifieds.

I've been running it for 3 months and its the wrong side of exciting yikes in the wet / snow.


Chris71

21,548 posts

248 months

Sunday 8th March 2009
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OnlyMX5ives said:
I've been running it for 3 months and its the wrong side of exciting yikes in the wet / snow.
How much power has it got and what do you reckon is about the right level for a road car?


Herman Toothrot

6,702 posts

204 months

Sunday 8th March 2009
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Chris71 said:
OnlyMX5ives said:
I've been running it for 3 months and its the wrong side of exciting yikes in the wet / snow.
How much power has it got and what do you reckon is about the right level for a road car?
Probably 240bhp FM2

I no longer really use mine on the road in winter as WOT above 4000rpm on damp roads the wheels spin in basically every gear, I think i'm running about 260bhp (dyno'd 250bhp/220lbs a couple of years ago and has since had more modification). Chatting to a guy who runs 350bhp we both thought the "useable" limits about 270/280bhp unless your after a 1/4 mile car and do the relevant mods. Thats really running the edge of what the engine can cope with before going pop though, got to remember 270bhp's 140bhp more than stock, over 100% more power smile

OnlyMX5ives

1,142 posts

198 months

Sunday 8th March 2009
quotequote all
Chris71 said:
OnlyMX5ives said:
I've been running it for 3 months and its the wrong side of exciting yikes in the wet / snow.
How much power has it got and what do you reckon is about the right level for a road car?
Its running 250bhp at 15psi it could have more with better tuning but it simply doesn't need it. Its too much for me as I end up going at silly speeds everywhere.

A 250bhp SC'd car due to the linear power is much easier to drive in dodgy conditions, although the turbo guys would counter that they could just turn down the boost.

Personally I find my 200ish bhp SC car to have the 'right' amount but it depends on your levels of restraint but I see no point in having cars that when using only a fraction of their performance could lead to a jail cell - hence I deal in MX5's not M3's etc

Also its the torque that sends you sideways and I think I'm around 220 compared to around 170 in my SC.

200bhp and 200lbs would be perfect for me.

tybo

2,284 posts

223 months

Monday 9th March 2009
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My 240 BHP FM2 does need delicate use of the throttle in wet conditions wink

I wouldn't say it's too fast for the road though...
It can be driven normally...but it's nice to have the power there when needed biggrin

I had a SC mk2 before this, and IMO, the supercharger suited the character of the car better.
It was probably about 60 BHP down on the FM2...but i'd say, on the road...was not much slower, as it could just be floored coming out of corners etc, whereas with the turbo...a bit of caution is needed.

The FM2 would be in a different league on a track though eek

Chris71

21,548 posts

248 months

Monday 9th March 2009
quotequote all
OnlyMX5ives said:
Personally I find my 200ish bhp SC car to have the 'right' amount but it depends on your levels of restraint but I see no point in having cars that when using only a fraction of their performance could lead to a jail cell - hence I deal in MX5's not M3's etc.
That's the thing. My current car has about 170hp (on a good day) and about the same weight as a Mk1 MX5 I'd immagine and it feels about as fast as I could really thrash on a clear B-road.

I'd be quite tempted by going back to a '5 but with mild forced indution - something a bit cheaper to run with a surfeit of replacement and tuning parts available but the same sort of power (and torque) to weight ratio as the TVR if not a bit more. I'd just feel much happier doing track days etc in something I could afford to fix without thinking about it!