LPG possible??

[bludgeoner]

Hi, thinking about an ultima build, particularly engine choice/fuel economy/power etc. Just occurred to me is it possible to convert modern V8's like LS2/7??
Is this any more involved than other large engines??
What is involved anyway?!
(if only the ultima had a little more luggage space I could be more confident I was making the right decision inm the first place...)

[gtr-gaz]

If you want something practicle, buy something else!
If you want a car that makes your heart beat faster just by getting behind the wheel, then an Ultima is for you

Seriously though, luggage space is not that bad. Coats and stuff behind the seats, room for a few bits and pieces in the side pods.
As for mpg, 20 is not bad is it?

[pb3]

Where would you put an LPG tank, people struggle with an oil catch tank when going dry sump? Can you get funny shaped tanks, probably not, it would be a big round cylinder with no home!

[GTWayne]

gtr-gaz said:

If you want something practicle, buy something else!

I am rapidly finding out just how impractical the GTW is. It is not so much the restricted luggage space that is a problem because touring on bikes has taught me how to travel light but the time that it takes to just get in and out of the car, belt up, get comfy, start the damn thing (my car is a bit more grief than most to be fair).
If fuel costs are a concern then you would do well to look elsewhere but if it is because you specifically want to run your motor on LPG then I am sure it would not be to much of a problem. You could maybe replace the fuel tanks with slightly longer gas tanks but you would need to fit a small petrol tank somewhere I would think because getting gas easily will not always be possible. LPG will also hurt power a little, but nothing to worry about in this combo I would say.
I for one would be interested to see something like this and wish you well in your quest.

[eliot]

Unless you intend to do *thousands* of miles a year, I dont see the point.

[peterpsg]

You'd be better with a Cobra replica if you're thinking of LPG, at least it would fit a tank in the boot...

[steve_d]

I think Ted will be on his fifth stiff drink by now trying to wash the thought of an LPG Ultima out of his mind.
It's just as well you've not put your name in your profile as there's no chance of Ted even answering the phone let alone selling you a kit.

Steve

[Boosted LS1]

It would be a great conversion but as said you don't have space to go dual fuel. If it were me, I'd lower compression a tad, add some forced induction and go fo it using lpg. Turbo's and lpg seem to go well together. I wanted to do this 10 years ago on a blown rover but got let down waiting on dual fuel injectors so was going to use a holley carb for those petrol emergencies when I couldn't find a garage with lpg in stock.

Boosted.

[eliot]

But its an Ultima. You dont buy it for its fuel economy.

Edited by eliot on Thursday 1st February 23:54

[ezakimak]

GTWayne said:

LPG will also hurt power a little, but nothing to worry about in this combo I would say.

I thought that LPG had a higher octane rating, around 114, compared to 98 for pulp, so if tuned properly – for a given compression ratio you should be able to get more power out of it?

There was a company Melbourne that did some work on this a while back, got government grants and so forth. “gas research” from memory, apparently worked quite well. Even developed a bolt on twin throttle body conversion for those with carbies

[eliot]

ezakimak said:

GTWayne said:

LPG will also hurt power a little, but nothing to worry about in this combo I would say.

I thought that LPG had a higher octane rating, around 114, compared to 98 for pulp, so if tuned properly – for a given compression ratio you should be able to get more power out of it?

There was a company Melbourne that did some work on this a while back, got government grants and so forth. “gas research” from memory, apparently worked quite well. Even developed a bolt on twin throttle body conversion for those with carbies

Yes true - problem is that you can never run it on petrol if you crank the compression up - i think its something like 13 or 14:1. What you need is a turbocharger with a switchable boost map for either fuel.

Still wouldn't do it on a ult though.

[gtr-gaz]

Forget the LPG idea. Why not just fit a diesel engine?

A VW Lupo engine would give amazing returns!

Edited by gtr-gaz on Friday 2nd February 08:06

[bludgeoner]

Lupo, I like that!!
Glad not everyone took my practicality concerns TOO seriously/personally .
Thanks for you input

For V8 fuel economy the LS2/7 at 25/6 mpg looks likely to be best...On balance it seems LPG is one complication probably best avoided for now.
We have really crappy roads round here. How does the Ultima with its low profile tyres handle over uneven country roads, potholes etc?? Sometimes I wonder if I'm better off with my Sylva Fury at half the weight(and a fraction of the price/cost) using standard profile tyres.

I know what you're going to say, if I concerned I should go and enjoy sex and travel driving something sensible, but 400-500 bhp is a lot of power on the road so here goes - has anyone thought of using for example a BMW engine with full loom/ECU and making use of electronic stability/traction etc. normally found on standard car? I found several aftermarket TCS, with racelogic looking prob best, but cannot find any aftermarket ABS available...

Edited by bludgeoner on Friday 2nd February 14:08

[gareth h]

I researched this for my Monaro, didn't get round to getting the install done, but these guys have done a Monaro which runs well, but took some development time to set up www.envirogas.net/

[crafty]

bludgeoner said:

..... but 400-500 bhp is a lot of power on the road so here goes - has anyone thought of using for example a BMW engine with full loom/ECU and making use of electronic stability/traction etc. normally found on standard car? I found several aftermarket TCS, with racelogic looking prob best, but cannot find any aftermarket ABS available...

If you do a search you will find all sorts of engine possibilities have been discussed, including the BMW.

[Scotty-Boy]

LPG debates... don't ya just love them!

I've been looking into this for my project - I wanted to Supercharge a V8 that run's a stock 11.0:1 CR. Obviously this is not without it's problems.

However, I've made some enquiry and established that if I was to fit a LIQUID (not vapor) injected LPG system to run EXCLUSIVELY on this engine set-up, then not only would it be (much) 'cleaner and greener', but it would be more efficient than petrol AND produce better perormance.

Availability is not a problem in my case as there's an LPG pump round the corner.

Tanks are an issue however, but there is more availability in terms of sizes these days. An '80 litre sausage' shaped one will fit down the passenger side of the car (I'me referencing Sports / Spyders here) as long as there are no luggage bins fitted. It will of course involve some fabrication / bracketry, but nothing outrageously technical.

The only other issue I can see is the weight of the tanks... obviously a lot heavier than the standard tanks, but you are making some MINOR savings by losing one of the old tanks, fuel pumps, swirl pots, etc. It might even help balance out the weight distribution as I have the battery / fire extinguisher in the drivers side bin.

And as for the hairy chested musings of some regarding the use of LPG over good old gasoline... get with the times fella's! Surely cheaper blatting costs can only be a good thing. Only an idiot (or someone with cash to burn... literally) would suggest otherwise.

Just my thoughts...

Edited by Scotty-Boy on Tuesday 20th May 12:53

[kylemrushall]

eliot said:

But its an Ultima. You dont buy it for its fuel economy.

Edited by eliot on Thursday 1st February 23:54

I dont understand this standpoint.......

nobody wants to waste money, it is hard enough to earn. I have a GTR but i want to maximise its economy for touring etc, i do not think 15mpg cruising is acceptable especially when a LS could return 24-28mpg cruising?? I think all avenues should be explored to maximise the affordability of these cars. I know in Germany some great things are being done with the V10 TDI engine 750ftlbs and 500bhp!!!

So i agree with Wayne good luck.

[Scotty-Boy]

I have to say that I find some of the anti-LPG comments a little bizarre - if you called it 'High Octane Performance Fuel' instead of LPG, then everyone and their dog would be bouncing up and down getting systems fitted!

But, because LPG has its origins in the DIY-esque 'how-to-run-your-big-engined-barge-cheaper' market, then it's unfashionable in the petrolhead quarters.

A change of advertising is required methinks!

Edited by Scotty-Boy on Tuesday 20th May 14:52

[kylemrushall]

Scotty-Boy said:

I have to say that I find some of the anti-LPG comments a little bizarre - if you called LPG 'High Octane Performance Fuel' instead then everyone and their dog would be bouncing up and down getting systems fitted, BUT because it was introduced as an economy saving 'comfy-car' product, then it's 'unfashionable' in some quarters.

It's possibilities are worth exploring.

yep i agree

there are 2 tanks fitted to all Ults would it not be possible to run one as an LPG tank??? I dont know much about LPG so dont shout.

[Scotty-Boy]

It's certaionly possible Kyle, but to get the best out of LPG for an Ultima type-car you would want to have it as the ONLY fuel source and the engine set-up accordingly.

Dual-fual systems involve a lot of compromise and therefore blunt efficiency / performance.