Californian city to file for Bankruptcy

[London424]

So this is what happens on a micro scale when you spend during a bubble rather than save. Some pretty eye watering cut backs "They eliminated one-fourth of the city's police officers, one-third of the fire staff, and 40% of all other employees. They also cut wages and medical benefits." and it still wasn't enough.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18605326

ETA: Yes, that should be Californian.

Edited by London424 on Wednesday 27th June 10:16

[munky]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18295974

[V88Dicky]

Still, sounds like a better place to live than Stockton, Cleveland UK

[Jimbeaux]

That is a microcasm of what happens when the ultra-left social model is followed. One must understand that a retired firefighter there gets $157,000/year in pension. Police, etc. about the same. That is very much out of the norm. That, along with businesses relocating to neighboring states to avoid the draconian taxes, has caused a downward spiral. The city had tried to negotiate the public sector pensions down to a reasonable rate but were shut down by the unions. Now, banckruptcy may leave many of them with no pension at all. I see this as a wakeup call to unions in other Cali. cities to compromise or face a similar fate.

[HarryW]

Jimbeaux said:

That is a microcasm of what happens when the ultra-left social model is followed. One must understand that a retired firefighter there gets $157,000/year in pension. Police, etc. about the same. That is very much out of the norm. That, along with businesses relocating to neighboring states to avoid the draconian taxes, has caused a downward spiral. The city had tried to negotiate the public sector pensions down to a reasonable rate but were shut down by the unions. Now, banckruptcy may leave many of them with no pension at all. I see this as a wakeup call to unions in other Cali. cities to compromise or face a similar fate.

Fecks me $157k pa pension that seems a hell of a lot . To try to convert it to the UK; whats the salary for your plod and whats the average working salary/pension for others.

[fido]

HarryW said:

Fecks me $157k pa pension that seems a hell of a lot . To try to convert it to the UK; whats the salary for your plod and whats the average working salary/pension for others.

GP's must be paid like footballers out there? Of course their 20% contribution from salary means they deserve every cent of it. [sarcasm off]

[12gauge]

This isnt uncommon in US municipalities...more often it seems pension agreements get restructed to what the taxpayer can afford.

Unfortunately no such local setup here, so the insolence of the public sector unions and greed of their members will bring us all down...

[Jimbeaux]

HarryW said:

Jimbeaux said:

That is a microcasm of what happens when the ultra-left social model is followed. One must understand that a retired firefighter there gets $157,000/year in pension. Police, etc. about the same. That is very much out of the norm. That, along with businesses relocating to neighboring states to avoid the draconian taxes, has caused a downward spiral. The city had tried to negotiate the public sector pensions down to a reasonable rate but were shut down by the unions. Now, banckruptcy may leave many of them with no pension at all. I see this as a wakeup call to unions in other Cali. cities to compromise or face a similar fate.

Fecks me $157k pa pension that seems a hell of a lot . To try to convert it to the UK; whats the salary for your plod and whats the average working salary/pension for others.

No where close to that. California has long been out of control and is reaping the consequences.

[johnfm]

Jimbeaux said:

That is a microcasm of what happens when the ultra-left social model is followed. One must understand that a retired firefighter there gets $157,000/year in pension. Police, etc. about the same. That is very much out of the norm. That, along with businesses relocating to neighboring states to avoid the draconian taxes, has caused a downward spiral. The city had tried to negotiate the public sector pensions down to a reasonable rate but were shut down by the unions. Now, banckruptcy may leave many of them with no pension at all. I see this as a wakeup call to unions in other Cali. cities to compromise or face a similar fate.

Hi Jimbeaux

Can you link to any data for US public service pensions? Where did your $157k figure come from?

[TheHeretic]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Jimbeaux said:

I see this as a wakeup call to unions in other Cali. cities to compromise or face a similar fate.

Sadly, I very very much doubt it. The same sentiment I have if this was on our side of the pond.
I simply can not imagine the Unions unblinkering to solve the larger scale when concentrated solely on the individual scale(s)

Unions really do seem to cause more trouble than they are worth. It is akin to street gangs and their adolescent need to 'save face' and reap whatever benefit they can, regardless of consequence.

Not a fan of unions.

[Jimbeaux]

TheHeretic said:

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Jimbeaux said:

I see this as a wakeup call to unions in other Cali. cities to compromise or face a similar fate.

Sadly, I very very much doubt it. The same sentiment I have if this was on our side of the pond.
I simply can not imagine the Unions unblinkering to solve the larger scale when concentrated solely on the individual scale(s)

Unions really do seem to cause more trouble than they are worth. It is akin to street gangs and their adolescent need to 'save face' and reap whatever benefit they can, regardless of consequence.

Not a fan of unions.

I am certain unions were neccessary back in the day. Today, they are legalized organized crime. The union bosses live like kings and direct union dues toward whichever politician greases them the best.

[ewenm]

johnfm said:

Hi Jimbeaux

Can you link to any data for US public service pensions? Where did your $157k figure come from?

I was under the impression it was set at a state level, not nationally.

[Jimbeaux]

johnfm said:

Jimbeaux said:

That is a microcasm of what happens when the ultra-left social model is followed. One must understand that a retired firefighter there gets $157,000/year in pension. Police, etc. about the same. That is very much out of the norm. That, along with businesses relocating to neighboring states to avoid the draconian taxes, has caused a downward spiral. The city had tried to negotiate the public sector pensions down to a reasonable rate but were shut down by the unions. Now, banckruptcy may leave many of them with no pension at all. I see this as a wakeup call to unions in other Cali. cities to compromise or face a similar fate.

Hi Jimbeaux

Can you link to any data for US public service pensions? Where did your $157k figure come from?

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/why-stockton-is-bankrupt-union-pensions

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-01/stockton-...

http://database.californiapensionreform.com/

[Jimbeaux]

ewenm said:

johnfm said:

Hi Jimbeaux

Can you link to any data for US public service pensions? Where did your $157k figure come from?

I was under the impression it was set at a state level, not nationally.

It is state by state, not federal.

[HarryW]

Just looked up for highway patrol, there are 315 of them drawing over $100k pension, the top ten range from $155k - $180k pa .

[thehawk]

fido said:

HarryW said:

Fecks me $157k pa pension that seems a hell of a lot . To try to convert it to the UK; whats the salary for your plod and whats the average working salary/pension for others.

GP's must be paid like footballers out there? Of course their 20% contribution from salary means they deserve every cent of it. [sarcasm off]

Yes, I remember looking at police officer salaries for a major city, think it was San Francisco, but even pretty recent graduates were on something like $87k. Which goes a long way in the US.

Medical specialists are often on stratospheric incomes, i.e $400-$500k for surgeons. Much higher for the best ones

[Elroy Blue]

That's not typical in the US. A good friend of mine is a Captain of a Police Dept in the US and earns $62k a year. The patrol Officers earn $35k.

[thehawk]

Elroy Blue said:

That's not typical in the US. A good friend of mine is a Captain of a Police Dept in the US and earns $62k a year. The patrol Officers earn $35k.

Found the link, but yes, I'm sure San Francisco is a lot more expensive to live than say Dallas, or many small towns.

http://www.sf-police.org/index.aspx?page=1655

[AJS-]

Would love for that to happen in the UK. Unfortunately the centralised socialist spending model means that we will only go bankrupt as a whole country eventually.

[Justayellowbadge]

thehawk said:

Found the link, but yes, I'm sure San Francisco is a lot more expensive to live than say Dallas, or many small towns.

http://www.sf-police.org/index.aspx?page=1655

Bloody hell.