The end of the coalition?
Discussion
Was there anything unfair with the proposed boundary changes? I thought they we're aimed at representing an equal proportion of electorate over the country?
edit*: it would appear so: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8759664/M...
edit*: it would appear so: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8759664/M...
Just lost a chunk of respect for the Lib Dems. It was clear to anyone who had read the proposals for Lords reform that what was being put forward was badly thought out and horribly undemocratic! 15 year terms and no real accountability does not a democratic second chamber make! No one is saying what we have now is democratic, but bizarrely it works well enough to mean that if you're going to replace it it had better be with something that would bring tangible benefits and greater democracy without setting two elected houses against each other in the future. The proposed plans achieved none of these things.
No doubt the Lib Dems saw it as their vehicle to everlasting future influence over policy, regardless of which of the main parties was in power and have spat the dummy in the most appalling way. The Boundary changes were/are urgently required and the reduction in the number of MPs makes sense, so the fact that the Lib Dems would sabotage this reform simply out of spite is a measure of how low and desperate they have become imho
No doubt the Lib Dems saw it as their vehicle to everlasting future influence over policy, regardless of which of the main parties was in power and have spat the dummy in the most appalling way. The Boundary changes were/are urgently required and the reduction in the number of MPs makes sense, so the fact that the Lib Dems would sabotage this reform simply out of spite is a measure of how low and desperate they have become imho
andymadmak said:
Just lost a chunk of respect for the Lib Dems.
From your previous posts I have assumed you were not an avid LibDem suporter. If this is correct then your feelings on the matter are of no consequence to them. They are after dragging back some of their disappearing support. That is, I assume, what this move was about.They have been forced into this move, but not, it would appear, by Cameron but by a mob of backbenchers wanting to increase their influence on the party. They chose the LibDems to attack, rather than one of their own policies (although Lords reform was one of their policies of course). Clegg had to make a response and the most obvious, and of course most vulnerable, was boundary changes. This will hurt the tories (and, from my reckoning, some of the backbenchers even more) so ws the perfect vehicle.
I don't think it was done out of spite but out of necessity. The question for Clegg is whether this show of strength is enough for potential LibDem returnees. I doubt it myself.
Yep, I think a further dose of labour is just the tonic the UK needs - we may as well keep borrowing to appease the public sector until the countries we borrow from lend us no more, only for them to turn and say 'All your country are now belong to us'
More seriously, I am past caring, really - I think the UK has already passed the point of no return, state spending-wise.
More seriously, I am past caring, really - I think the UK has already passed the point of no return, state spending-wise.
Murph7355 said:
chris watton said:
...
More seriously, I am past caring, really - I think the UK has already passed the point of no return, state spending-wise.
Apothetically I think you are right. And see no workable means of us getting out of the mire.More seriously, I am past caring, really - I think the UK has already passed the point of no return, state spending-wise.
"How the West Was Lost: Fifty Years of Economic Folly - And the Stark Choices that Lie Ahead"
Although I might have spoilt the ending.
Tim Montgomerie @TimMontgomerie
Tory Cabinet minister: Everyone knows we gave LDs AV referendum for boundaries. At the earliest opportunity we must revenge Clegg's betrayal
Tim Montgomerie @TimMontgomerie
Tories could complain at LD failure to deliver human rights or West Lothian reform. Deal was AV for boundaries, not Boundaries for Lords.
Tory Cabinet minister: Everyone knows we gave LDs AV referendum for boundaries. At the earliest opportunity we must revenge Clegg's betrayal
Tim Montgomerie @TimMontgomerie
Tories could complain at LD failure to deliver human rights or West Lothian reform. Deal was AV for boundaries, not Boundaries for Lords.
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