SNP launch legal bid over Leader's Debate

[Puggit]

Sky News

I have a lot of time for the idea of Scottish independence, but I have zero time for the idea of the SNP playing a major part in UK politics...

[Stevenj214]

Puggit said:

Sky News

I have a lot of time for the idea of Scottish independence, but I have zero time for the idea of the SNP playing a major part in UK politics...

Despite being an SNP supporter, I completely agree.

[bonsai]

Hopefully they'll drop that plan when their Scottish debate attracts 50 viewers and they realise just how irrelevant they are to the majority of the country.

[5unny]

Reading the article it appears the SNP have no intention of doing this it all. They are simply using this to gain publicity (and play the victim card at home in order to gain votes) and make money through donations.

Very clever actually.

[Pooh]

Stevenj214 said:

being an SNP supporter

Why?

They seem to make no sense to me at all, they say we do not want to be run from London because they are too remote and do not understand our needs(I have some sympathy with this) but they want to stay in Europe and be run from Brussels which is even more remote and out of touch.
They are even worse for tax and spend than Labour.
They want to base our future on a diminishing oil industry.
They are socialists.
I could go on and on.
The only reason I can see to vote for them is some romantic idea that an independent Scotland would be a better place, where as in reality we would be a small irrelevant, socialist country on the fringes of Europe.

[5unny]

Pooh said:

Stevenj214 said:

being an SNP supporter

Why?

They seem to make no sense to me at all, they say we do not want to be run from London because they are too remote and do not understand our needs(I have some sympathy with this) but they want to stay in Europe and be run from Brussels which is even more remote and out of touch.
They are even worse for tax and spend than Labour.
They want to base our future on a diminishing oil industry.
They are socialists.
I could go on and on.
The only reason I can see to vote for them is some romantic idea that an independent Scotland would be a better place, where as in reality we would be a small irrelevant, socialist country on the fringes of Europe.

Alex Salmond probably agrees with you

Before being elected to power the independence cries from the SNP were constant however now all they are promising is a 'referendum' without even giving a time-line.

Salmond knows there is no guarantee of him winning such a referendum and if he does lose then where does his party go from there? Politically it makes more sense to maintain the status quo (From their point of view).

Edited by 5unny on Sunday 25th April 11:13

[Pooh]

5unny said:

Pooh said:

Stevenj214 said:

being an SNP supporter

Why?

They seem to make no sense to me at all, they say we do not want to be run from London because they are too remote and do not understand our needs(I have some sympathy with this) but they want to stay in Europe and be run from Brussels which is even more remote and out of touch.
They are even worse for tax and spend than Labour.
They want to base our future on a diminishing oil industry.
They are socialists.
I could go on and on.
The only reason I can see to vote for them is some romantic idea that an independent Scotland would be a better place, where as in reality we would be a small irrelevant, socialist country on the fringes of Europe.

Alex Salmond probably agrees with you

Before being elected to power the independence cries from the SNP were constant however now all they are promising is a 'referendum' without even giving a time-line.

Salmond knows there is no guarantee of him winning such a referendum and if he does lose then where does his party go from there?

There was a poll today showing that with a Conservative government in Westminster a referendum would be winnable, so Salmond will hang on in the hope of an unpopular Conservative government.

[5unny]

Pooh said:

5unny said:

Pooh said:

Stevenj214 said:

being an SNP supporter

Why?

They seem to make no sense to me at all, they say we do not want to be run from London because they are too remote and do not understand our needs(I have some sympathy with this) but they want to stay in Europe and be run from Brussels which is even more remote and out of touch.
They are even worse for tax and spend than Labour.
They want to base our future on a diminishing oil industry.
They are socialists.
I could go on and on.
The only reason I can see to vote for them is some romantic idea that an independent Scotland would be a better place, where as in reality we would be a small irrelevant, socialist country on the fringes of Europe.

Alex Salmond probably agrees with you

Before being elected to power the independence cries from the SNP were constant however now all they are promising is a 'referendum' without even giving a time-line.

Salmond knows there is no guarantee of him winning such a referendum and if he does lose then where does his party go from there?

There was a poll today showing that with a Conservative government in Westminster a referendum would be winnable, so Salmond will hang on in the hope of an unpopular Conservative government.

Yes I see your point. The 2011 Holyrood elections will be interesting.

I wonder how a David Cameron government would play this. On one side they are Unionists but then if Scotland and Wales break away, the Tories could rule England for a generation.

[Pooh]

5unny said:

Pooh said:

5unny said:

Pooh said:

Stevenj214 said:

being an SNP supporter

Why?

They seem to make no sense to me at all, they say we do not want to be run from London because they are too remote and do not understand our needs(I have some sympathy with this) but they want to stay in Europe and be run from Brussels which is even more remote and out of touch.
They are even worse for tax and spend than Labour.
They want to base our future on a diminishing oil industry.
They are socialists.
I could go on and on.
The only reason I can see to vote for them is some romantic idea that an independent Scotland would be a better place, where as in reality we would be a small irrelevant, socialist country on the fringes of Europe.

Alex Salmond probably agrees with you

Before being elected to power the independence cries from the SNP were constant however now all they are promising is a 'referendum' without even giving a time-line.

Salmond knows there is no guarantee of him winning such a referendum and if he does lose then where does his party go from there?

There was a poll today showing that with a Conservative government in Westminster a referendum would be winnable, so Salmond will hang on in the hope of an unpopular Conservative government.

Yes I see your point. The 2011 Holyrood elections will be interesting.

I wonder how a David Cameron government would play this. On one side they are Unionists but then if Scotland and Wales break away, the Tories could rule England for a generation.

I agree it could be very tricky for a possible future Conservative government, I am sure they will not want to preside over a break up of the UK.

[rs1952]

5unny said:

I wonder how a David Cameron government would play this. On one side they are Unionists but then if Scotland and Wales break away, the Tories could rule England for ever .

EFA

[rs1952]

The three parties that are currently particpating in the debates are led by men who could conceivably be asked by the Queen to form the next government.

The SNP leader has as much chance of being asked by the Queen to form the next government as I have.

[Pooh]

rs1952 said:

5unny said:

I wonder how a David Cameron government would play this. On one side they are Unionists but then if Scotland and Wales break away, the Tories could rule England for ever .

EFA

Not true, Labour would have still had a majority at the last election without any Scottish and welsh MPs.

[V88Dicky]

Alex Salmond;


Shrek;



Can't see how his party or Plaid Cymru can be part of the election debates when they are not UK wide parties, they are only standing for election in Scotland (Wales).

[rs1952]

Pooh said:

rs1952 said:

5unny said:

I wonder how a David Cameron government would play this. On one side they are Unionists but then if Scotland and Wales break away, the Tories could rule England for ever .

EFA

Not true, Labour would have still had a majority at the last election without any Scottish and welsh MPs.

I take back all I said

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/vote2005/html/eng...

[glazbagun]

5unny said:

Reading the article it appears the SNP have no intention of doing this it all. They are simply using this to gain publicity (and play the victim card at home in order to gain votes) and make money through donations.

Very clever actually.

They'd previously said that they wouldn't launch an appeal because they lacked the money in their coffers. By asking for a fund, they'll probably still get nowhere, but it means another few weeks of free press and soundbites. Given the free publicity boost the big three are getting at the moment, and the exposure it has given the Lib Dems, this is probably the next best thing.

It will be interesting if the SNP make big gains up here, and the Tories get in nationally. I can't see the Conservatives caring much about a place they're unlikely to win seats in, so there'll likely be many points of contention when it comes to budget allocation, etc. In fact, protecting Scotland from any westminster cuts pretty much is the SNP manifesto from what I can gather. I also don't think their referrendum will see the light of day.

[Stevenj214]

Pooh said:

Stevenj214 said:

being an SNP supporter

Why?

They seem to make no sense to me at all, they say we do not want to be run from London because they are too remote and do not understand our needs(I have some sympathy with this) but they want to stay in Europe and be run from Brussels which is even more remote and out of touch.
They are even worse for tax and spend than Labour.
They want to base our future on a diminishing oil industry.
They are socialists.
I could go on and on.
The only reason I can see to vote for them is some romantic idea that an independent Scotland would be a better place, where as in reality we would be a small irrelevant, socialist country on the fringes of Europe.

I believe in self determination and independence. I would dearly like to see an independent Scotland where our government can make decisions with the best interests of the Scottish people at heart.

An independent Scotland in Europe would at least have it's own voice. As it stands, countries such as Malta (population 500,000) will hold key positions and be able to influence European policy. Scotland is at the mercy of the decisions made by the UK-wide, London based parties who quite simply have competing priorities when it comes to European matters.

The tax and spend policies I can live with or without, but I would keep in mind that if independence is achieved, the SNP will not be the only party in Scotland. The difference would be that all parties would then likely have Scotland's interests as their sole objectives.

The SNP's sums for independence do include figures for gas and oil, however longer term I believe Scotland has a great wealth of natural resources and a skilled workforce which can drive forward the economy. Many countries successfully manage economic stability and growth, despite lacking the resources Scotland has.

Edited by Stevenj214 on Sunday 25th April 12:26

[Pooh]

Stevenj214 said:

Pooh said:

Stevenj214 said:

being an SNP supporter

Why?

They seem to make no sense to me at all, they say we do not want to be run from London because they are too remote and do not understand our needs(I have some sympathy with this) but they want to stay in Europe and be run from Brussels which is even more remote and out of touch.
They are even worse for tax and spend than Labour.
They want to base our future on a diminishing oil industry.
They are socialists.
I could go on and on.
The only reason I can see to vote for them is some romantic idea that an independent Scotland would be a better place, where as in reality we would be a small irrelevant, socialist country on the fringes of Europe.

I believe in self determination and independence. I would dearly like to see an independent Scotland where our government can make decisions with the best interests of the Scottish people at heart.

An independent Scotland in Europe would at least have it's own voice. As it stands, countries such as Malta (population 500,000) will hold key positions and be able to influence European policy. Scotland is at the mercy of the decisions made by the UK-wide, London based parties who quite simply have competing priorities when it comes to European matters.

The tax and spend policies I can live with or without, but I would keep in mind that if independence is achieved, the SNP will not be the only party in Scotland. The difference would be that all parties would then have Scotland's interests their sole objectives.

The SNP's sums for independence do include figures for gas and oil, however longer term I believe Scotland has a great wealth of natural resources and a skilled workforce which can drive forward the economy. Many countries successfully manage economic stability and growth, despite lacking the resources Scotland has.

Fair enough, you must have a higher opinion of the capabilities of Scottish politicians and population than I do.
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of hard working and very capable people in Scotland but I am not sure there are enough, our country has been ruined by the welfare state and socialism.
My main concern is that the vast majority of Scottish people seem to have a socialist outlook and the majority depend on the state for their jobs/benefits, I cannot see Scotland flourishing unless that changes and I don't think it will.

[Leithen]

If independence promised a halving of the public sector workforce, I might vote for it.

Sadly, there's more chance of Gordon Brown apologising for destroying the economy than Scotland losing it's dependence culture. I'd love a historian to explain exactly how a country that created so much, ended up where we are today.

[Mojocvh]

Stevenj214 said:

Pooh said:

Stevenj214 said:

being an SNP supporter

Why?

They seem to make no sense to me at all, they say we do not want to be run from London because they are too remote and do not understand our needs(I have some sympathy with this) but they want to stay in Europe and be run from Brussels which is even more remote and out of touch.
They are even worse for tax and spend than Labour.
They want to base our future on a diminishing oil industry.
They are socialists.
I could go on and on.
The only reason I can see to vote for them is some romantic idea that an independent Scotland would be a better place, where as in reality we would be a small irrelevant, socialist country on the fringes of Europe.

I believe in self determination__ and independence. I would dearly like to see an independent Scotland where our government can __make decisions with the best interests of the Scottish people at heart.

Edited by Stevenj214 on Sunday 25th April 12:26

Stop right there.

Go read and inwardly digest the meanings behind ALL the EU treaties that have been signed prior to this date.

There is no "SELF DETERMINATION" as a member of EC, EU or whatever it is called at present.

It is all part of the SNP's "big lie".

Question.

Tell me, if the SNP are so hot on self determination and real independence, what steps, since being in "power", have they made to removing the moral obscenity at Coulport from Scottish soil to date?

NONE.

Salmon and his 'ilk are just the same as the rest of the self serving swine at the trough.

[Stevenj214]

Pooh said:

Fair enough, you must have a higher opinion of the capabilities of Scottish politicians and population than I do.
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of hard working and very capable people in Scotland but I am not sure there are enough, our country has been ruined by the welfare state and socialism.
My main concern is that the vast majority of Scottish people seem to have a socialist outlook and the majority depend on the state for their jobs/benefits, I cannot see Scotland flourishing unless that changes and I don't think it will.

I think the socialist welfare state which relies heavily on public sector jobs is a result of the centralisation of economic policy on S.E. England. Independence would force this issue to be addressed and economic policies made exclusively in Scotland for Scotland would be the vehicle of change.

As for the politicians, I agree that sometimes they can leave a lot to be desired. The "Scottish Debate" last week was dreadful. I have faith however that from a population of 5 million, we can find one or two shining stars!